Palitoy Vinyl Cape Jawa Update

[mr_palitoy]

Alas, my knowledge of the dark side of the force (Kenner) is lacking in this respect.

:lol:

Jason

 

[Drakon]

oops! My mistake (got a bit over excited there), I know there's an australian ESB VCJ but I'm not sure about a 20 back Kenner one. I think the VCJ Kenner only came on a 12 A back in the US so it's probably from one of your cloth cape ones. Has anyone out there ever heard of one of these showing up?

The VC Kenner Jawa only came on the 12 back. I wish it showed up on the 20 back and I sure wish I had a the ESB VC Jawa.

 

[Palifan]

i thought it was only the 12 back and I know what you mean about the OZ one although I'd quite like a canadian one. Saying that though I'd take a Palitoy one over them both

 

[Black Falcon]

Congratulations to Rich on the Pali Vinyl Cape MOC!

@ Jason and all, sorry if I am slow to chime in.
The sliced open cloth cape in Palitoy VC bubble example, mentioned earlier in the thread, is still in my collection.

I also have a MOC Palitoy cloth cape Jawa with the regular (ESB) bubble.
and a MOC Palitoy cloth cape Jawa with R2 bubble with cardboard figure tray.

The positioning of the hang tab varies on SW carded Jawas from Palitoy and Kenner

- Graham

 

[mr_palitoy]

Congratulations to Rich on the Pali Vinyl Cape MOC!

@ Jason and all, sorry if I am slow to chime in.
The sliced open cloth cape in Palitoy VC bubble example, mentioned earlier in the thread, is still in my collection.

I also have a MOC Palitoy cloth cape Jawa with the regular (ESB) bubble.
and a MOC Palitoy cloth cape Jawa with R2 bubble with cardboard figure tray.

The positioning of the hang tab varies on SW carded Jawas from Palitoy and Kenner

- Graham

Hi there, with all the evidence in the progression of the bubbles, the tie in with Kenner and the lack of sealed examples, I am of the opinion
that cloth cape never came in a vinyl cape bubble. What is the provenance of your sliced bubble example? I think it is much more likely
that a vinyl cape was swapped out and sold (at profit) and a cloth cape put in rather than it having shipped that way.

When you say ESB bubble, I presume you mean this one?

Would love a sideways on picture of your R2 bubble to add to the cardback guide. The 2 that are on there were taken
with a sheet of A4 wrapped round the card so the background was white.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Another update from Richard.

Tom Derby looked over the VCJ with his senior graders and said it was completely genuine before issuing it an AFA grade.
He congratulated Richard for having the courage to send it in.
He is sending Richard a COA and grading report information which he should get in the next few weeks.
Hopefully that will shut up the last of the doubters!



Jason

 

[poncho]

Another update from Richard.

Tom Derby looked over the VCJ with his senior graders and said it was completely genuine before issuing it an AFA grade.
He congratulated Richard for having the courage to send it in.
He is sending Richard a COA and grading report information which he should get in the next few weeks.
Hopefully that will shut up the last of the doubters!



Jason

thats fantastic news 8) and hopefully put the shrowed of doubt out of peoples minds over the pali vcj

 

[DarthStanley]

FANTASTIC news Jason,cheers! 8)

 

[Lee77]

Great news. Looking forward to it.
BTW, why is TD considered such an authority on Star Wars. I doubt doubt him, just curious.

 

[CRAZYHAZY]

Great to here jason and good news for not just the uk but the world of sw vintage collecting.

 

[Palifan]

That's the news I think everyone wanted to hear. It's great it was looked over by Tom and it means he really did know how important this piece is so I'm sure he was very careful when he signed it off.

Looking forward to hearing the final word fromRichard once the COA is with him.

 

[shawn_k]

Another update from Richard.

Tom Derby looked over the VCJ with his senior graders and said it was completely genuine before issuing it an AFA grade.
He congratulated Richard for having the courage to send it in.
He is sending Richard a COA and grading report information which he should get in the next few weeks.

This is great news to hear and I am now a believer. I look forward to hearing about the grading report.

Hopefully that will shut up the last of the doubters!

I don't get why you and some others are so hell bent on "shutting up" anyone that questioned this piece. I get that this has been your legacy, to prove its legitimacy, while many others have been doubting, but why must we "shut up"? I'm still going to question pieces like this, especially when they have a history like this one. It's awesome that it has been proven to be legit and that you were right all along, but we should always question/research pieces like this to prove their legitimacy. You did the research, now have proof of a solid example and for that I commend you.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Another update from Richard.

Tom Derby looked over the VCJ with his senior graders and said it was completely genuine before issuing it an AFA grade.
He congratulated Richard for having the courage to send it in.
He is sending Richard a COA and grading report information which he should get in the next few weeks.

This is great news to hear and I am now a believer. I look forward to hearing about the grading report.

Hopefully that will shut up the last of the doubters!

I don't get why you and some others are so hell bent on "shutting up" anyone that questioned this piece. I get that this has been your legacy, to prove its legitimacy, while many others have been doubting, but why must we "shut up"? I'm still going to question pieces like this, especially when they have a history like this one. It's awesome that it has been proven to be legit and that you were right all along, but we should always question/research pieces like this to prove their legitimacy. You did the research, now have proof of a solid example and for that I commend you.

Bad choice of phrase. Maybe I should have said something like this should ally the fears of those who thought AFA had made some sort of mistake in the grading process.



Jason

 

[shawn_k]

Bad choice of phrase. Maybe I should have said something like this should ally the fears of those who thought AFA had made some sort of mistake in the grading process.



Jason

:lol: Much better. Sorry about the rant. I just think we should always question some new info like this until it is proven.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Bad choice of phrase. Maybe I should have said something like this should ally the fears of those who thought AFA had made some sort of mistake in the grading process.



Jason

:lol: Much better. Sorry about the rant. I just think we should always question some new info like this until it is proven.

Well, you have couple of weeks until Richard gets all the paperwork through.



Jason

 

[_Lee_]

Shame it has to sent that far to be graded though-doesnt say much about the respect the UK should get.

Tom Derby is the self confessed expert supposedly,read into that what you will.

I agree with Shawn though Jason.You seemed to have an "im right so your'e wrong" attitude.Although i find your site (which was started by John years ago)and contributions to the hobby in general very helpful i found you to be very arrogant and condescending whilst trying to produce proof this actually existed.There was just a smarmy attitude that didnt sit right with me,and others.I also think your reseal claims and MOC examples are exaggerated,and untrue.As i said before-the reseals dont prove nothing,and my stance on that wont change.Sorry.

After all said and done,i commend you for your detective work and input in recognisng this although im sure it will still be questioned.Some others will still not listen as AFA,Derby etc dont mean crap to them.

Lee

 

[mr_palitoy]

Shame it has to sent that far to be graded though-doesnt say much about the respect the UK should get.

Tom Derby is the self confessed expert supposedly,read into that what you will.

I agree with Shawn though Jason.You seemed to have an "im right so your'e wrong" attitude.Although i find your site (which was started by John years ago)and contributions to the hobby in general very helpful i found you to be very arrogant and condescending whilst trying to produce proof this actually existed.There was just a smarmy attitude that didnt sit right with me,and others.I also think your reseal claims and MOC examples are exaggerated,and untrue.As i said before-the reseals dont prove nothing,and my stance on that wont change.Sorry.

After all said and done,i commend you for your detective work and input in recognisng this although im sure it will still be questioned.Some others will still not listen as AFA,Derby etc dont mean crap to them.

Lee

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

All of the sealed and opened examples have been documented with pictures earlier in this thread. If you don't want to believe, then don't believe.
You may not like my attitude, but I have been saying this for many years now, mainly due the number of new examples that have been coming up,
all with convincing back stories.

And before you start lecturing me about attitude, take a look at some of the things you have said in previous palitoy VCJ threads on this forum.
You have been downright agressive and abusive to anyone suggesting that this could have existed.

:?

Jason

 

[_Lee_]

Actually Jason,if you did read properly my opinion was based on the thieving ****ers who apparently owned them.That to me,was reason enough to make me doubt them.Was i agressive- yes,and abusive-yes,but when you have been ripped off by one of those cunts,and then saw another rip your mother off-how would you feel?

Sour grapes? not at all.Im actually glad that one does exist as it adds another fantastic find to this amazing hobby.

 

[Grant_C]

They exsist.

I saw one last year at Joiners Empire Day.

Case Closed.

and if that was fake.....game over gentleman, your MOCs are worthless.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Actually Jason,if you did read properly my opinion was based on the thieving ****ers who apparently owned them.That to me,was reason enough to make me doubt them.Was i agressive- yes,and abusive-yes,but when you have been ripped off by one of those cunts,and then saw another rip your mother off-how would you feel?

Sour grapes? not at all.Im actually glad that one does exist as it adds another fantastic find to this amazing hobby.

Well, I'm glad we can agree on something!

I guess it comes down to experiences. I haven't been on the receiving end of any major scams as far as I'm aware. I can imagine being
victim to a few might change my outlook and make me more mistrusting.

I've always said with the 2 MOC examples that because a known scammer has owned them at some point in their ownerships history,
this does not automatically imply they are fakes. Fakers deal in genuine stuff some of the time, well most of the time, with the fake
pieces falling into the minority rather than the majority. They should be judged based on the piece as it appears to someone seeing
it for the first time, not on who may have owned it at some point.

For me the most compelling proof that palitoy VCJ existed is human nature and occam's razor. That is, all things being equal, the
simplest explanation is the one which is correct.

Case 1:-

So in this case we have 2 MOCs showing up that have passed through the hands of some known scammers which have been seen
by established UK collectors first hand and look to be genuine. And with convincing provenance and back story to go with it. And 4
opened examples also with convincing back story and evidence to suggest that they also originally contained the genuine vinyl cape
jawas they were sold with.

Case 2:-

There is a conspiracy to fool the collecting community into thinking it did exist by placing fakes out into the community via ebay, shows,
and face to face deals over the last decade. The sealed examples are good enough to fool the most respected UK palitoy collectors out
there and even the great and almighty Tom Derby and AFA. The opened examples have had real vinyl caped jawas inserted into them
by sellers, some of which know little to nothing about vintage star wars and clearly do not know each other. There is no material gain
or profit for them to make here, as they are not replacing the cloth cape jawa with a fake vinyl cape jawa which they could make several
hundred pounds profit on.

So, which is true?

I'll go Case 1 every time.

There is also overwhelming evidence that a vinyl cape bubble never contained a cloth cape jawa which makes Case 2 not possible
with the opened examples. The progression of Palitoy bubbles from vinyl cape bubble to cloth cape buble via the R2D2 bubble as
a stop gap measure exactly mirrors that of the Kenner line. There has never been a sealed example found for either Palitoy or
Kenner where a vinyl cape bubble contained a cloth cape jawa.

And rest.



Jason