Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.
- Thread starter Grant_C
- Start date
Also having owned hundreds of Trilogo and Kenner MOCs over the last 20 years, and taking into consideration the 10+ purchases I have made from Toni over that period, I would vouch that a lot of the carded figures he has sold are legit.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
itfciain said:
Of the 20, 3 were purchased directly from Toni. The rest are a mixture from the usual dealers from 5 odd years back, galactables, brians toys etc.
cheers Jason
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Toni update. I think the enormity of what he has done to the hobby is finally sinking in.
I sent this email last night after analysing JJ's list:-
================================
Hi Toni
Jason Joiner has published the list of stock that you bought off Arthur.
The handwritten list's handwriting matches that of Arthurs publicly available documents foe Xceptional limited, the company you had with him. So the list of stock is definitely not fake and comes from Arthur.
I have looked at the list of unused cardbacks and figures and constructed a list of figures that would be required to be bought to recard after you ran out of original figures.
This matches the list of figures you are buying on your secret ebay account, you know, the one with the ever changing random user name.
The list of unused cardbacks also matches the list of MOC figures you have been selling over the years.
Would you care to comment please?
cheers Jason
I sent this email last night after analysing JJ's list:-
================================
Hi Toni
Jason Joiner has published the list of stock that you bought off Arthur.
The handwritten list's handwriting matches that of Arthurs publicly available documents foe Xceptional limited, the company you had with him. So the list of stock is definitely not fake and comes from Arthur.
I have looked at the list of unused cardbacks and figures and constructed a list of figures that would be required to be bought to recard after you ran out of original figures.
This matches the list of figures you are buying on your secret ebay account, you know, the one with the ever changing random user name.
The list of unused cardbacks also matches the list of MOC figures you have been selling over the years.
Would you care to comment please?
cheers Jason
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
His response about 20 mins ago:-
"hi Jason I got you previous email and I do totally understand you comments .These items are important to collectors and mean a lot to them . I am sorry about what is happening in that community .Basically Im overwhelemed by all this .regards Toni"
"hi Jason I got you previous email and I do totally understand you comments .These items are important to collectors and mean a lot to them . I am sorry about what is happening in that community .Basically Im overwhelemed by all this .regards Toni"
Stargeezer
Sith Lord
Come on, what kinda shitty reply is that.... Toni, wake up, your busted, just get your conscience clean and spill the truth about what's going on.
I think we are beyond the point where you can save your credibility within the hobby, so at least give us the truth.
I think we are beyond the point where you can save your credibility within the hobby, so at least give us the truth.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
My thoughts about what happens next.
Court case - I am not going to instigate it. I would imagine I'd be called at witness if it did go to court. Will be hanging on to all my TOCs until then,
as they could well be used as evidence.
TOCs - the price on these are going to go through the floor. In time they be seen as collectable bootlegs, time will tell.
My collecting - I am out of collecting MOC period. Havent bought hardly any in the last 3 years anyway and do cardabcks in a big way
anyway, so no change for me really. I love the first 20 Palioty SW MOC I have and they remind me of getting them as a kid. They are
not in question. The ESB/ROTJ Palitoy ones mean little apart from the AFA 90 grade, which is worthless and they are a reminder of
what a chump I was when I started collecting, so I think in the long term I'll sell them on with full disclosure.
AFA - AFA are not an authentication service. They tell you how nice they think it looks with the AFA grade and then put it in a nice box for you. And that's it.
Jason
Court case - I am not going to instigate it. I would imagine I'd be called at witness if it did go to court. Will be hanging on to all my TOCs until then,
as they could well be used as evidence.
TOCs - the price on these are going to go through the floor. In time they be seen as collectable bootlegs, time will tell.
My collecting - I am out of collecting MOC period. Havent bought hardly any in the last 3 years anyway and do cardabcks in a big way
anyway, so no change for me really. I love the first 20 Palioty SW MOC I have and they remind me of getting them as a kid. They are
not in question. The ESB/ROTJ Palitoy ones mean little apart from the AFA 90 grade, which is worthless and they are a reminder of
what a chump I was when I started collecting, so I think in the long term I'll sell them on with full disclosure.
AFA - AFA are not an authentication service. They tell you how nice they think it looks with the AFA grade and then put it in a nice box for you. And that's it.
Jason
What does this mean for ugrades? COO's?
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Maulster79 said:
Ugrades were a bit of a joke before Tonigate, even more so now.
A lot of COO/card combo info is useless and wrong. Guides and resources should be changed to reflect Tonigate.
I'll be updating my Palioty cardback guide with a TOC list etc.
cheers Jason
Stargeezer
Sith Lord
Maulster79 said:
I said this before but this actually means many off those u-grades, could have been regular loose figures or AFA85 ones that gotwhere reattached to an original card (by Toni) and then got u-graded....
Luckily we have AFA to give them a score how nice they look and put them in a fancy case like Jason said, because at authenticating this is a big failure....
itfciain
Grand Master
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
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Yep, the one bright light in all of this is that Ugrades are now practically worthless (they are only worth the value of the same scored loose graded figure)
I think as well. the value of these beater cards that every Ugrader has sought to destroy will actually go flying up - as they practically guarantee to the buyer that it is a genuine, factory sealed item - rather than a TOC
I think as well. the value of these beater cards that every Ugrader has sought to destroy will actually go flying up - as they practically guarantee to the buyer that it is a genuine, factory sealed item - rather than a TOC
Stargeezer
Sith Lord
JJ something not brought up after you posted those scans, i assume the left top corners are folded because the pages are stapled togheter at that point? But why are the page numbers crossed out...??
Don't feel this as an personal attack, but i read people questioning this, so it might be better to get this cleared aswell?
Don't feel this as an personal attack, but i read people questioning this, so it might be better to get this cleared aswell?
poncho
Grand Master
thats a real politician answer from toni!itfciain said:
edd_jedi said:
yes this list was just the card backs un attached , there was a lot more figures on the other list that were carded and if they were all right and factory assembled they they will be fine .
i will at this time keep al the relevant paperwork safe and the figures also and i am happy to make them all available if legal action takes place .
thank god i keep that list , i just remembered thinking ho well its still interesting even though i lost the deal and kept it , but then i again i seem to hoard everything ;-)
hope this has been some help everyone
jason
Dark Sith Lord
Grand Master
mr_palitoy said:
What sort of a reply is that for ****s sake!
:roll: I dont really have a dog in this fight i dont think but I do remember i still have these
ESB 45 Back FX7
Looks fine to me but I took this figure to CE2 with me and do remember someone coming up to my stall and remarking that it was an interesting moc as it "appears to have a trilogo bubble" Is their any truth in this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65400963@N03/9415325700/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65400963@N03/9415326366/
I also have this Palitoy 65 Back Double stem Han Hoth
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65400963@N03/8741175014/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65400963@N03/8740058667/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65400963@N03/8741174772/
Hope these were useful. If you want anymore pics lmk. I brought them both from Auction
Stargeezer said:
just got the list in front of me looking at it now
ok looking at the scrubbed out numbers they have been numbered at least twice and maybe 3 times at one time once in red all pages and back all pages and in blue 2 pages .all page numbers seem to be 1 to 4 just done several times.
The pages i have are the original photo copied pages i got from Arthur and one corner of each of the pages has been folded over on the top right corner when he copied them ? , there is a hole for a staple on each page but the staple has been remove at some time so all pages are lose.
the blue writhing with the dollar singes is my writhing at the time i received the list .
there there are bits marked here and there also on the pages i think ?
i hope that is of help guys
jason
Fisrt, i would like to thank Jason J. to share that list. Sure it would help to descard "forged" cards from the rest...
Looking at the list, ¿Can we confirm that no other ESB Palitoy cardback, appart the TIE Pilot, were forged???
¿¿Are all other ESB Palitoy 45bk "B" legit???
¿¿Are all the ESB CLIPPER 45 back sold by TT legit???
As Jason "Mr.Palitoy" said, i am almost sure this list is incomplete or with a lot of mistakes...
JC
mr_palitoy said:
Looking at the list, ¿Can we confirm that no other ESB Palitoy cardback, appart the TIE Pilot, were forged???
¿¿Are all other ESB Palitoy 45bk "B" legit???
¿¿Are all the ESB CLIPPER 45 back sold by TT legit???
As Jason "Mr.Palitoy" said, i am almost sure this list is incomplete or with a lot of mistakes...
JC
