Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[lee gray]

Can I have your afa 90 leah boush really cheap then Jason as I wont be buying blind

As for AFA some of the fett figures they graded 90 may not have come from toytoni as surely palitoy must have released some and with peopleselling and reselling, the buyers of these figures might be third generation so how are they to know which are and are not.

Also wouldnt it be really funny if this was some ploy from Jason just so everyone tried to shift their doubtful items cheap so he buys them all up and says i was only joking and then has the biggest mint palitoy collection in the world

 

[Richard_H]

Congratulations guys from all 3 forums coming together to crack this. For me the evidence was damning way back - however I could understand the cautious approach from those who had a lot to lose.
However I still think there's comments being made still to cast suspicion on JJs motives like lees above - not the only one. And those repeatedly saying we'd never see the list. I'm assuming the apology is forthcoming to him?
I only go on what I see but in this case I believe JJ has been truthful throughout.

 

[paulcalf]

Wow nice photos of sharks. I've been to a few of those places, he has spent some serious cash on dive holidays.

I'm sure most people would like to feed him to the sharks, but if in ends up going down the legal route then I imagine his defence will be along these lines:

I have sold carded Star Wars figures, but I never claimed they were originally sealed at the Palitoy factory.


The fact that he is a man of few words will help him. His website does not describe what he sells, I can't even find reference to Mint On Card, even if it does he can claim they are Mint on Card. He mentions factory punched 45b-bossk factory punched 8.5. The card is probably factory punched, would this be described as 'mis selling'.

Trading standards and legal people will only be interested if what he describes is not what he is selling.
The less the description, the less come back people will have.

1. People who have bought his stuff need to decide what resolution they are looking for.
2. Is the legal route the best way of achieving this?
3. Does anyone have any written orders for 'Originally sealed at the Palitoy Factory, xx carded figure'?
4. Would it be better 'to send the boys round' (peacefully), 'ask' him to donate all his remaining stock to compensate those affected?

Perhaps his remaining stock could be sold honestly by a respected person from the SW community, the proceeds could be used to compensate those who have bought dodgy stuff off him.

If it goes legal then his representatives would have advised him to do this anyway, so I'm not giving TT ideas. Mods can always delete the post.

I don't think this will go anywhere legally, it will just cost everyone lots of cash!
A peaceful, honest and frank face to face conversation with some neutral & well respected members of the SW community.

Sorry for the long post, but i help this is useful in deciding what action to take next.

I would imagine a lot of you guys hard earned has been spent jetting around the world indulging in diving holidays & photography judging by this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aemchowicz/

 

[Richard_H]

And to add we need an accurate list of affected cards urgently. Josh's clipper needs discussed and cleared up unless I've missed it?

 

[itfciain]

Has anyone read the RS thread recently - it flicks from mounting a party to go down and teach Toni a lesson to feeling sorry for him and wondering if he will top himself :roll:

 

[itfciain]

And to add we need an accurate list of affected cards urgently. Josh's clipper needs discussed and cleared up unless I've missed it?

Yep - I mentioned this above - we really need a matrix of all the potentially affected cards - anyone (Jason S?) feel comfortable doing this ?

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

And to add we need an accurate list of affected cards urgently. Josh's clipper needs discussed and cleared up unless I've missed it?

Agreed Rich. It needs to be added to the other thread. This thread is hard to keep up with

 

[_Darren_]

Signed up to post here on this mess....

Surely both the" take a team to Brighton"and "poor Toni"camps are both ends of a disgruntled spectrum.

Although I'm very much in the knocking his door camp,I realise as an adult such things are frowned upon and ultimately not a solution. The solution has been mentioned that some respected UK ers(David Tree,Lee Bullock)etc should attempt a dialogue to redress this.....if the offending contraband is released to a 3rd party and either sold or offered to victims of the fraud as compensation. Then at least the cards can no longer be used to recard his fake MOCs.

Has anybody here got a good friendly relationship with Toni,that could talk to him and make him see the light,and results of his actions?

And how widespread and devastating it was to those affected???

I'm probably being naive to think there will be a satisfactory resolution to this,but hey it's late December ...and my fingers are crossed for a Christmas Miracle.....

Darren

 

[itfciain]

Signed up to post here on this mess....

Surely both the" take a team to Brighton"and "poor Toni"camps are both ends of a disgruntled spectrum.

Although I'm very much in the knocking his door camp,I realise as an adult such things are frowned upon and ultimately not a solution. The solution has been mentioned that some respected UK ers(David Tree,Lee Bullock)etc should attempt a dialogue to redress this.....if the offending contraband is released to a 3rd party and either sold or offered to victims of the fraud as compensation. Then at least the cards can no longer be used to recard his fake MOCs.

Has anybody here got a good friendly relationship with Toni,that could talk to him and make him see the light,and results of his actions?

And how widespread and devastating it was to those affected???

I'm probably being naive to think there will be a satisfactory resolution to this,but hey it's late December ...and my fingers are crossed for a Christmas Miracle.....

Darren

Good suggestion Darren - will be amazed if it does go down like that but as you say, maybe a Christmas miracle will happen

 

[Richard_H]

Great. Another Man U fan on here.


:lol:

 

[edd_jedi]

Thanks for joining Darren. Personally I think both the legal route and 'getting the boys round' are a waste of time. In my opinion the best resolution would be:

- A proper admission from Toni, with full details if possible (eg which ones he has sealed himself)
- Create a list of the above figures and make sure everybody knows about it
- Null all AFA/UKG grades (I know they won't refund the money, so just remove them from the database)
- Allow the ones already in the wild to remain as bootlegs (they should then retain some value for the owners)
- Ensure no more are created and any leftover 'materials' are properly archived (personally I think a box of Palitoy bubbles or card backs would be a great collectable for the right person - Steve Sansweet?)

And that's about it. Realistically nobody is going to get their money back unless they paid via Paypal within the last 3 months, nobody is going to go to jail, and nobody is going to go knocking at his door.

 

[jedisearcher]

Paying for legal advice without any indication of success isn't a good way forward. The citizens advice bureau offer a service to deal with consumer issues which this seems to be as he's selling on various platforms.

If we take it up with them and they say you've got no chance then no one will be further out of pocket. If they say you've got a case then the matter goes to trading standards who can get police and hmrc involved. If it's somewhere in the middle then so be it. They'll also be better placed than the police fraud guys in the first instance.

The link is https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

You can also phone etc. perhaps if we can pull together a form of words and facts (we need to be really careful here to avoid appearance of a witch hunt) then afew of us lodge complaints then they'll have to at least look at it.

 

[jedisearcher]

Re the flickr stuff how do we know that's him btw?

Ordered a black light today, will check the seals once it's here. This is probably the best way to confirm what the lists are saying. Everyone should get one, they cost less than a fiver and if you want to sell 'at risk' stuff in the future it's prob the only way you're gonna convince buyers they're real

 

[_Darren_]

Hey...why is my lightsaber so small....ahem

Edd.....your points seem very measured.....but I don't think donating the contraband if it was voluntarily offered up to Sansweet is any sort of redress to those affected.

I'm also not that naive to assume everybody is going to be satisfied with any aftermath to this,but surely the remaining card stock would be wanted as some sort of compensation if there is no chance of any monetary compensation?...

One per item affected??.....that would at least be something tangible that might even have some value as a curio or genuine vintage item.

Once those affected had their compensation the overstock could be donated to Gus or Steve or even(shock horror) Jason!!!...or split amongst them.

Those 3 are great hoarders so I doubt they'd be selling them on.....

I honestly have no idea how it would work,but a bit of tinkering and polling collectors affected would reach a consensus....

If Toni EVER does the right thing... :roll:

Darren

 

[Richard_H]

I think as one small step to get out of this mess UKG/AFA should offer a free recall for all potentially affected cards. Armed with this new information they should be able to look at these again to put people's minds at ease. Any that are suspect get stricken off the numbers.

 

[edd_jedi]

I'm also not that naive to assume everybody is going to be satisfied with any aftermath to this,but surely the remaining card stock would be wanted as some sort of compensation if there is no chance of any monetary compensation?...

I don't think the unused cardbacks have any value - bear in mind the ones graded by AFA were done so as proofs, so they are now null and void too. People may want them, but they are unassembled stock, just like the bubbles, so should not be in circulation.

 

[_Darren_]

Great. Another Man U fan on here.


:lol:

We are terrible,though.....

 

[olisuds]

I'm also not that naive to assume everybody is going to be satisfied with any aftermath to this,but surely the remaining card stock would be wanted as some sort of compensation if there is no chance of any monetary compensation?...

I don't think the unused cardbacks have any value - bear in mind the ones graded by AFA were done so as proofs, so they are now null and void too. People may want them, but they are unassembled stock, just like the bubbles, so should not be in circulation.

I don't know about that. Unused card backs would go a little way to compensate in my opinion. Lets face it, TT is hardly likely to reimburse everyone for the last 20 years.

 

[edd_jedi]

The whole appeal of proof cards is that they are pre-production, and there aren't many of them. I'm pretty sure if 500 unused C-3PO cardbacks hit the market tomorrow, bearing in mind the TOCs were only selling for £40, they would struggle to sell for more than a fiver each.

Plus, do we really want these in circulation? The same could happen again. Hence my suggestion of somebody responsible having them.

 

[olisuds]

Toni isn't going to post a picture of his stock or anything else

But why wouldn't you if it would put all this to bed?

Iain, I agree, why wouldn't you post a picture if it put all this to bed. I'm just saying he's not going to. Just like Jason is not going to produce the list.

Well I have to publicly apologise to Jason here. He did come through with the list and it has moved this whole situation significantly further forward.

So thank you and apologies once again. I didn't mean to doubt you but when this got past the 100 page mark I lost a little confidence.

I still have ZERO confidence in Toni coming through with a picture or a decent explanation! His communication so far is seriously inadequate considering the scale of the allegations.

Any chance this is going to end up over 200 pages by year end?