lejackal
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Did you just not get bribed for confirming they also didn't send bribes?
Premier League 23/24 Thread
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I don't really blame Liverpool it's farcical what happened and although a replay won't happen it probably should. VAR hasn't ruined football but the muppets running it have.Nt seen enough of Hojland to pass fair comment. Amir Zacki (spelling) looked amazing at Wigan all those years ago, then after xmas his form nose dived and he disappeared. Hojland looks solid enough so far, but too early to say for certain.
I don't like the can of worms a replay would open. I suspect/hope its Klopp trying to show the FA/PGMOL that apologies when you keep making incredibly basic errors is no good. It needs sorted, two years ago.
Subjective calls I can kind of excuse, is it a pen/red or not? A lot of the time even neutrals will be split, albeit 90% agreed Wolves should have had a pen and the City goal against Fulham shouldn't have stood.
But offside, like the ball crossing the line, is black and white. You are either off or on. There is no interpretation. I think/hope that's Klopp's point.
And that "they have restarted we can't do anything" rule, is recipe for disaster, should never have existed, and needs to go.
We all know nothing will change though and we'll be here talking about someone else being shafted in a few weeks.
I don't like the can of worms a replay would open. I suspect/hope its Klopp trying to show the FA/PGMOL that apologies when you keep making incredibly basic errors is no good. It needs sorted, two years ago.
Subjective calls I can kind of excuse, is it a pen/red or not? A lot of the time even neutrals will be split, albeit 90% agreed Wolves should have had a pen and the City goal against Fulham shouldn't have stood.
But offside, like the ball crossing the line, is black and white. You are either off or on. There is no interpretation. I think/hope that's Klopp's point.
And that "they have restarted we can't do anything" rule, is recipe for disaster, should never have existed, and needs to go.
We all know nothing will change though and we'll be here talking about someone else being shafted in a few weeks.
Yeah as long as nobody has scored, I don't see the damage stopping the game again after restarting to correct a mistake, surely doing that and then just adding some time back on is the logical answer.
The replay can of worms has lots of issues, as many people have said should that replay have Liverpool start with 10 men because that's what they had when the goal was disallowed? Otherwise it's "unfair" on the other team.
The replay can of worms has lots of issues, as many people have said should that replay have Liverpool start with 10 men because that's what they had when the goal was disallowed? Otherwise it's "unfair" on the other team.
Good point
First up, I don't want a replay and don't think you can have one, but if you do………feck knows.
You're right you can't restart from zero mins and give Liverpool 11 men, if you do then Jones' three match ban (any other bookings players picked up and Jota's ban) need to be cancelled, and that's hardly fair or sensible.
If you restart from when the incident happened, do Liverpool get the goal? A bit unfair on Spurs to start a game after half an hour ish and be a goal down at kick off. Do bookings stand? So those who has already been booked pre the disallowed goal, do they start the game booked?
First up, I don't want a replay and don't think you can have one, but if you do………feck knows.
You're right you can't restart from zero mins and give Liverpool 11 men, if you do then Jones' three match ban (any other bookings players picked up and Jota's ban) need to be cancelled, and that's hardly fair or sensible.
If you restart from when the incident happened, do Liverpool get the goal? A bit unfair on Spurs to start a game after half an hour ish and be a goal down at kick off. Do bookings stand? So those who has already been booked pre the disallowed goal, do they start the game booked?
I think the one action they can take from this is to up their professionalism in communications. Goal, no goal, red card, that's about the only words that should be coming out of their mouths. Yes, no and other arbitary comments should be avoided
Aye the whole procss for VAR needs to be looked at. In Hockey and Cricket (possibly rugby, I dunno I don't watch it) the TV umpire/VAR checks what he is being asked to look at and then talks the on-field ref through what he is seeing. Or at least you can hear him talking through what he is seeing.
VAR should be a case of, in the disallowed goal, "Ok ref, goal scored, VAR will check (that's routine for every goal). Can you confirm what the onfield decision was?" At which point the ref obv says "offside" and the non goal issue is resolved. Likewise for fouls etc. ref says "I gave a yellow cos I thought he got part of the ball, or it was a case of six of one etc." Then VAR knows and can advise him that he got it right, wrong, or to look at the screen etc.
All of this isn't rocket science FFS. If I can work it out and I have no involvement with stuff like this you have to wonder why PGMOL haven't. It's not like they are the first sport to try TV reviews and I'm pretty sure they all watch Cricket/rugby/some other sport with a VAR equivalent.
But it all boils down to the same issue, the guys running VAR are incompetent but they are also their own bosses so there is no punishment when they **** up. A week away from "work" is as much a punishment as it sounds. Until they are properly held to account for mistakes and their general incompetence nothing will change. Some other club will get shafted in a few weeks, get another meaningless apology and we'll all be expected to carry on and pretend they aren't killing the game.
Rant over.
VAR should be a case of, in the disallowed goal, "Ok ref, goal scored, VAR will check (that's routine for every goal). Can you confirm what the onfield decision was?" At which point the ref obv says "offside" and the non goal issue is resolved. Likewise for fouls etc. ref says "I gave a yellow cos I thought he got part of the ball, or it was a case of six of one etc." Then VAR knows and can advise him that he got it right, wrong, or to look at the screen etc.
All of this isn't rocket science FFS. If I can work it out and I have no involvement with stuff like this you have to wonder why PGMOL haven't. It's not like they are the first sport to try TV reviews and I'm pretty sure they all watch Cricket/rugby/some other sport with a VAR equivalent.
But it all boils down to the same issue, the guys running VAR are incompetent but they are also their own bosses so there is no punishment when they **** up. A week away from "work" is as much a punishment as it sounds. Until they are properly held to account for mistakes and their general incompetence nothing will change. Some other club will get shafted in a few weeks, get another meaningless apology and we'll all be expected to carry on and pretend they aren't killing the game.
Rant over.
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VAR in Rugby is much better executed. They have a yellow card which means the player goes into a sin bin and the refs in VAR have 10 minutes and can upgrade to a red card.
Thing that pisses me off with the off side VAR is the ECL and World Cup have the full screen animation automated system where as the PL has the **** lines that are manually applied. Why? It's not as if the PL are hard up for cash. It's like UEFA use a PlayStation 5 and The FA use a Atari 500.
Thing that pisses me off with the off side VAR is the ECL and World Cup have the full screen animation automated system where as the PL has the **** lines that are manually applied. Why? It's not as if the PL are hard up for cash. It's like UEFA use a PlayStation 5 and The FA use a Atari 500.
It's a funny old game part #426
After not being able to get anywhere near Liverpool's 18 yard box against 9 men last week, Spurs have just squandered about 10 open goal chances, and then had Bissouma sent off for diving
After not being able to get anywhere near Liverpool's 18 yard box against 9 men last week, Spurs have just squandered about 10 open goal chances, and then had Bissouma sent off for diving
More VAR / refereeing inconsistencies today. Everton were very unlucky to get two soft yellows resulting in a red card, then 5 minutes later a Liverpool player already on a yellow does exactly the same thing and somehow dodges it. Understandably Dyche is furious and gets a yellow card himself instead.
Then a few minutes later a Pool player dives in the box trying to get a penalty, and again even after VAR agreeing he dived, no punishment. Bissouma got sent off for diving OUTSIDE the box a couple of weeks ago!
Liverpool were VERY lucky today, credit to Everton, they deserved a point.
Then a few minutes later a Pool player dives in the box trying to get a penalty, and again even after VAR agreeing he dived, no punishment. Bissouma got sent off for diving OUTSIDE the box a couple of weeks ago!
Liverpool were VERY lucky today, credit to Everton, they deserved a point.
Everton strung together fewer successful passes than ANY team EVER in ANY PL game. They spent the majority of the game sitting ten yards outside their box hoofing it back to VVD and Alison on the Half Way line. I can't agree that deserves point. Though there were some great defensive blocks, I thought Tarkowski played really well. They created nothing though. Steven Hawking (RIP) could have done nets for Liverpool and they still would have won.
I missed Young's first yellow, and while his second wasn't a particularly bad tackle, as such, it was the area he made it in and the situation. Had he not fouled/stopped Diaz then he was clean in on goal. Granted it was along the bye line but that's the kinda position that City score bucket loads of goals from pull backs etc. Ashley Young is experienced enough to know if you dive in there you're asking for trouble. He can't have any complaints.
The Konate foul, the second one, looks like a stonewall yellow in real time but then BTSport showed another angle where you can see there is FA contact and the Everton boy made a meal of it. I put that down as good refereeing, being in the position to see the exaggeration, rather than falling for it. Apparently MOTD showed a trip in slow mo, I haven't seen it so cant comment. I have seen a ****** Twitter clip of a supposed trip but it looks innocuous to me.
Even if that was a let off for Pool, I doubt it would have affecetd the game. Everton barely tried to attack or play football when it was 11 a-side. Also, it would only cancel out the over turned MacAllister red from a few weeks ago. Though I still think the ref got it right and a free kick but no card was the right call.
I missed the Pool player diving. Who was it? I genuinely haven't heard it mentioned elsewhere, so I cant comment on it.
I missed Young's first yellow, and while his second wasn't a particularly bad tackle, as such, it was the area he made it in and the situation. Had he not fouled/stopped Diaz then he was clean in on goal. Granted it was along the bye line but that's the kinda position that City score bucket loads of goals from pull backs etc. Ashley Young is experienced enough to know if you dive in there you're asking for trouble. He can't have any complaints.
The Konate foul, the second one, looks like a stonewall yellow in real time but then BTSport showed another angle where you can see there is FA contact and the Everton boy made a meal of it. I put that down as good refereeing, being in the position to see the exaggeration, rather than falling for it. Apparently MOTD showed a trip in slow mo, I haven't seen it so cant comment. I have seen a ****** Twitter clip of a supposed trip but it looks innocuous to me.
Even if that was a let off for Pool, I doubt it would have affecetd the game. Everton barely tried to attack or play football when it was 11 a-side. Also, it would only cancel out the over turned MacAllister red from a few weeks ago. Though I still think the ref got it right and a free kick but no card was the right call.
I missed the Pool player diving. Who was it? I genuinely haven't heard it mentioned elsewhere, so I cant comment on it.
Oh you're right they barely got the ball in Pool's half, but I think their defending deserved a point (as soul destroying as it is to watch) as until the penalty it looked pretty certain to end a goalless draw, even when they only had ten men (as they just had one less player upfront!) I thought the handball for Salah's penalty was harsh but he had to give it considering some of the others that have been, but again it begs the question of why is it no longer what is deemed to be a deliberate handball, it now seems any contact with arms that are not at your side like a soldier is a penalty.
I can't find any mention of it either now, but it was before Liverpool scored their first goal. But... you go to ground, look at the ref for a penalty, VAR review it and decide no penalty, what other explanation is there!?
I can't find any mention of it either now, but it was before Liverpool scored their first goal. But... you go to ground, look at the ref for a penalty, VAR review it and decide no penalty, what other explanation is there!?
Salah's pen is one of them, most football fans may not like to see them given, but that is the interpretation of the laws now. I have long since given up trying to work out what is handball. I do think Keane left his hand out there a second or two longer than would have been necessary. If you watch it back you can tell he hasn't moved his hand a quickly as he could. He almost leaves it there to block the angle or dare the Pool player to try and hit it. If you see the replays you'll see what I mean.
For me, and I am biased on this one, it's a lot more of a pen than quite a few of those "unintentional" handballs you see (the nonsense pen Pool got in the CL final against Spurs being a prime example).
As for the dive, I guess, playing devil's advocate, the player could have felt contact/been tackled and he felt it was enough to go down (or it was enough to knock him down) but the Ref and VAR don't deem the contact enough for a foul and thus a pen. It is a contact sport, and as I have said a few times when we get soft pens "contact does not equal a foul."
For me, and I am biased on this one, it's a lot more of a pen than quite a few of those "unintentional" handballs you see (the nonsense pen Pool got in the CL final against Spurs being a prime example).
As for the dive, I guess, playing devil's advocate, the player could have felt contact/been tackled and he felt it was enough to go down (or it was enough to knock him down) but the Ref and VAR don't deem the contact enough for a foul and thus a pen. It is a contact sport, and as I have said a few times when we get soft pens "contact does not equal a foul."
Such a lovely chap is our Sergio. I can only assume one of those nasty Arsenal boys must have hurt his feelings.
Some day I hope someone two foots Ramos. Ideally round the head. Twice.
Some day I hope someone two foots Ramos. Ideally round the head. Twice.
Good result for Arsenal. Not seen any of the game, decent?
Utd continue to look pish. They really should only have a point, yer man choked on that penalty. The fact they can qualify with a win in Denmark and Turkey is scary. But then, given how poor Utd have been this season, I'm not sure I would put money on them winning those games.
They just don't seem to have clicked this season. Not really sure why. They will, probably rediscover their mojo just before Xmas, say about the 16th or so.
Utd continue to look pish. They really should only have a point, yer man choked on that penalty. The fact they can qualify with a win in Denmark and Turkey is scary. But then, given how poor Utd have been this season, I'm not sure I would put money on them winning those games.
They just don't seem to have clicked this season. Not really sure why. They will, probably rediscover their mojo just before Xmas, say about the 16th or so.
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That's Everton relegated, 12 point deduction incoming. I can't see them recovering from that.
Just need Man City to be treated the same.
Just need Man City to be treated the same.
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Yeap!
Agreed.
If Everton get 12pts for one breech and City have 115 charges against them (granted some are probably small and Everton's may have been bigger and or more blatant) there's no chance City can be allowed to stay in the profession leagues. They'll be relegated to Sunday league games against the Dog and Duck, second eleven. Assuming they are found guilty, and we all know the FA/PL will chicken out of that. Much easier to go after a smaller fish who was probably going to go down soon anyway.
If Everton get 12pts for one breech and City have 115 charges against them (granted some are probably small and Everton's may have been bigger and or more blatant) there's no chance City can be allowed to stay in the profession leagues. They'll be relegated to Sunday league games against the Dog and Duck, second eleven. Assuming they are found guilty, and we all know the FA/PL will chicken out of that. Much easier to go after a smaller fish who was probably going to go down soon anyway.
Utd spanked yesterday. The second half was men against boys, but that penalty was ******* harsh. Yeah, it was a foul by the letter of the law but you see **** like that a dozen times in every game and thy are never guven. Why VAR felt that was a "clear and obvious error" I will never know. ******* harsh on Utd and yet another example of VAR being ***** and City getting the rub of the green. It goes with the offside that apparently wasn't interfering with play despite being stood in front of Fulham's keeper, the handball against Rodri that wasn't hand ball despite ehhh hitting his hand, and the pen against Wolves were it hit yer man in the armpit.
Still, small skint clubs like City need all the help they can get.
In truth, I doubt the penalty affected the outcome of the game, I think City would have beaten them anyway, but I am struggling to think of a time City have been done over by VAR.
Still, small skint clubs like City need all the help they can get.
In truth, I doubt the penalty affected the outcome of the game, I think City would have beaten them anyway, but I am struggling to think of a time City have been done over by VAR.
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Also Kovavic should have had a straight red against Arsenal. But yeah Man City are light years ahead of Utd. Worrying thing I can see Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs, Villa and probably even Chelsea coming to Old Trafford and doing the same. Brighton and City already have.
Hojlund could/should have gone down for a similar incident in the second half and that would have been a straight red. Then Maquire pulled Harland worse in the second half and nothing was given.
I'm not sure how anyone can be surprised at the result, playing the best team in the world with Evans and Maquire as your centre back pairing, I don't think Luton would be happy with that! Harlands second goal was ridiculous, the best number 9 in the world left unmarked, unbelievable.
I love Ten Hag and he should be given time, at least another 18 months, but if he keeps picking the same players he will end up sacking himself. That said we do have our entire first choice back 4 and the DM out injured.
Hojlund could/should have gone down for a similar incident in the second half and that would have been a straight red. Then Maquire pulled Harland worse in the second half and nothing was given.
I'm not sure how anyone can be surprised at the result, playing the best team in the world with Evans and Maquire as your centre back pairing, I don't think Luton would be happy with that! Harlands second goal was ridiculous, the best number 9 in the world left unmarked, unbelievable.
I love Ten Hag and he should be given time, at least another 18 months, but if he keeps picking the same players he will end up sacking himself. That said we do have our entire first choice back 4 and the DM out injured.
Speaking of centre backs, it's no coincidence that Spurs are top of the league having dropped Dier and Sanchez. People keep saying we're playing better without Harry Kane - I don't think that's true, he would have scored a dozen of the chances Richarlison has squandered so far this season. It's all to do with our new defence and goalkeeper IMO.
I'd forgotten about the Kovacic foul, chalk another one up for City.
I actually said the same thing when Hojlund was struggling to stay up. Dive and he gets a pen, or was the foul just outside? But when I saw the replay I'm not sure there was enough contact for a foul. They come together rather than yer man fouling him. Seen them given, but I probably wouldn't have given it.
I'm not sure the "leave Haaland unmarked, twice, in the six yard box" tactic that Utd tried will catch on. The one save Onana made was more cos Haaland fluffed it than Onana pulling off a worldie.
Will ETH get 18months? He has had a few injuries but as people are starting to point out, not many of his signings have improved at Utd, or improved Utd since they signed. Casemiro, Varane and maybe Martinez. But the first two have 927 CL winners medals between them. We knew they were class acts. Albeit class acts who are past their best, still very good, but age will start to get them soon.
You can hear the media circus starting to hype up about Ten Hag/Utd in crisis. He doesn't have the ex pro friends that OGS does. AND Fat Sam is available
I will never know WHAT THE **** possessed Spurs to buy Richarlison, especially for 60m. Move that decimal place one spot to the left and you are about right.
I suspect we find out how good Spurs really are when they get a few injuries and or when they get a few bad results/VAR shockers. Still, no arguments they have been the surprise package of the season so far.
I actually said the same thing when Hojlund was struggling to stay up. Dive and he gets a pen, or was the foul just outside? But when I saw the replay I'm not sure there was enough contact for a foul. They come together rather than yer man fouling him. Seen them given, but I probably wouldn't have given it.
I'm not sure the "leave Haaland unmarked, twice, in the six yard box" tactic that Utd tried will catch on. The one save Onana made was more cos Haaland fluffed it than Onana pulling off a worldie.
Will ETH get 18months? He has had a few injuries but as people are starting to point out, not many of his signings have improved at Utd, or improved Utd since they signed. Casemiro, Varane and maybe Martinez. But the first two have 927 CL winners medals between them. We knew they were class acts. Albeit class acts who are past their best, still very good, but age will start to get them soon.
You can hear the media circus starting to hype up about Ten Hag/Utd in crisis. He doesn't have the ex pro friends that OGS does. AND Fat Sam is available
I will never know WHAT THE **** possessed Spurs to buy Richarlison, especially for 60m. Move that decimal place one spot to the left and you are about right.
I suspect we find out how good Spurs really are when they get a few injuries and or when they get a few bad results/VAR shockers. Still, no arguments they have been the surprise package of the season so far.
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I would say all of his permanent signings apart from Mount walk straight into the team when everyone is fit. Malacia being the exception but he's a young left back. All the signings he's made are consistent with all the signings over the last decade that Utd have made. Which for me points towards the lack of sporting director at the club. Main stream media will come out with statements like he's had 16 players. When in fact he's had 8 permanent signings one being a free transfer. Hojland is a brilliant signing, but he's in the graveyard shift as the number 9. Antony had a descent first season 10 goals. Never a £90 million player, but Ten Hag doesn't negotiate the price of a player.
Then you've got the nonsense that he's playing like Ole and Jose, not true, we're number 1 for winning the ball in the final third. He's also going to be the fastest Man Utd coach ever to win 50 games. He's baffling me with his persistence with Rashford, Bruno and McSauce. But again 2 of those he tried to sell and they clearly aren't good enough. Some how they keep ending up back in the first team. You can't dismiss the fact his entire defence has been decimated all season, Klopp and Pep would see a dip in performance and indeed have in the past.
Also I would love someone to explain to me what the plan is if you sack Ten Hag, I'm pretty sure I could dismantle any argument for bringing another coach in now. Let's face it if he did get sacked the Glazers would probably get Darren Fletcher as interim coach until the end of the season. £800 million of debt, rotting stadium, no money to spend in January, players that aren't good enough but can't be sold, yeah good luck new manager.
Then you've got the nonsense that he's playing like Ole and Jose, not true, we're number 1 for winning the ball in the final third. He's also going to be the fastest Man Utd coach ever to win 50 games. He's baffling me with his persistence with Rashford, Bruno and McSauce. But again 2 of those he tried to sell and they clearly aren't good enough. Some how they keep ending up back in the first team. You can't dismiss the fact his entire defence has been decimated all season, Klopp and Pep would see a dip in performance and indeed have in the past.
Also I would love someone to explain to me what the plan is if you sack Ten Hag, I'm pretty sure I could dismantle any argument for bringing another coach in now. Let's face it if he did get sacked the Glazers would probably get Darren Fletcher as interim coach until the end of the season. £800 million of debt, rotting stadium, no money to spend in January, players that aren't good enough but can't be sold, yeah good luck new manager.
