Premier League 23/24 Thread

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The Glazier's apparently want 10 billion. After starting out asking for 6. Chelsea went for about 4.2 for context, though Utd are obviously bigger. Ten billion for a club they paid 800m for, using none of their own money, they have taken it from debt free and swimming in cash to over a billion in debt. Old Trafford is rusting away. They have employed their mates to run it (badly) and paid themselves £250mpa in "consultancy fees" cos Yanks know loads about saaaaker. And they think that justifies twelve times their investment.
Needless to say they expect the buyer to take on the debt too.


They truly are the most despicable leeches out there. And that's coming from a Liverpool fan.


Oohh and only fair I admit City getting Newcastle away in the Worthless Cup is not a cushy draw. It's nice to see them get some normal draws, albeit they will still win and get Aldershot at home in the next round. And they did get a piss easy CL group too.
 
Apparently that Glazers story is from the Daily Fail so fingers crossed it's ********. They still want to much even at £6 billion.
 
Aye, it could well be. But would it surprise you if it was true?

I didnt see much of the Arsenal Utd game but it sounded good. I thought the pen was one of those that if it had been tiven VAR wouldn't over turn it, and had it not been given VAR wouldnt have said 'pen'. But then they over turned it.
It's actually very similar to the Rashford one last week, which I didn't think was a penalty.
It's amazing how small details affect games. Had the FA not decided to play extra extra time in games that match would have finished 1-1, instead Arsenal are elated after snatching a 3-1 win.
 
No it wouldn't at all and is always the fear that they don't sell.

I watched what I could of the game, thought Arsenal probably edged it. I thought it was a pen as I thought Rashfords was last week. Garnacho offside was/is a joke but I new it would be and didn't react at all to celebrate. The Man Utd of pre glazers would have been in for Rice and he's the type of player United should be signing. I don't blame Ten Hag at all for the result, he's basically managing the Barcelona of England with both hands tied behind his back. But why take off Antony when he was clearly the only forward tracking back, but Rashford gets a free pass to automatic 100 minutes every game, but doesn't ever look that bothered? What more do you need to know about Man Utd? They finished that game with Jonny Evans and Maquire at centre back. That's terrifying. I don't think Luton would be happy with that partnership.

I usually hate the international brake in September but I'm looking forward to it this September as we have so many injures! More looking forward to the Rugby World Cup than anything, which I know @weasel will be following. 😉
 
I only watched the first half of the Arsenal v United game but that looked pretty even, I can certainly see why Utd fans would feel hard done by if the disallowed goal was questionablly off side and Arsenal scored their winner after everyone had already gone home, but I heard Arsenal also had a penalty over-ruled so maybe that cancels out the offside. Still, Arteta's four leaved clover is showing no signs of wilting any time soon :ROFLMAO:

Well impressed with Spurs at the moment, still annoyed about going out the EFL Cup so willingly as that's always our best chance of a trophy (OK until City get to the final for the 20th consecutive year anyway) but the performance against Burnley was solid! It's like a new team, which it practically is because he's not playing a lot of the old guard dead wood (yes Dier I'm looking at you!)
 
The question with Spurs is will they revert to type? Previous managers have had a bounce and then the players have remembered they are supposed to be Spurs and they go all ehhh Spursy. They are looking good at the minute though, it must be a novel experience for Spurs fans to look forward to watching them.
Hopefully they revert to type when they play Pool. But either way, it'll be nice not to have the dirty diving wee ****** Harry Kane booting anyone in a red shirt with impunity and diving every time he gets in the box….and getting a pen.
 
As for the International break, WE ARE FOUR ******* GAMES INTO THE SEASON. FOUR. DAFUQ DO WE NEED AN INTERNATIONAL BREAK FOR?????

Just move all qualifying games to the end of the season before the Euros/WC and play them over a month. The season can finish earlier as there's no breaks for dull as **** Internationals. Everyone wins.
 
Nah, the world would be such a better place. I'd also have 90% fewer mates to listen to as well cos every fecker who I am friends with seems to be a bloody Utd fan.
 
Well there's the definition of justice for you. The Sheffield United goalkeeper was time wasting for the entire second half, resulting in 12 minutes of added time. Spurs equalise and then score the winner in the 9th and 10th minutes 😂
 
Same as Pool against Newcastle last season then. Nice to see clubs not getting away with time wasting.

Though Newcastle did get a ridiculously soft pen against Brentford. Anthony "diving little toerag" Gordon jumps into the Brentford keeper and the ref gives it. I have no idea what the keeper was doing being that far out, nor why the defender under hit his back-pass, but Gordon jumps INTO the keeper. Sky were calling it clever. Had Gordon been German, or from Ivory Coast I wonder would he have been so "clever" or would he have been a diver?
TBF the goal Newcastle had disallowed was a bit of a harsh call by VAR, seen them given and seen them disallowed. But that was NEVER a pen. Even Shearer agreed FFS.


ETH in!!!!!
 
No need to sign Kim Min-Jae when we have Bruno Fernandes who can slot quite easily into CB...🙄

I'm starting to get the feeling Ten Hag is struggling tactically in the PL. I thought he would have learnt from his mistakes last season, clearly not!
 
Perhaps Ten Hag is struggling tactically, but there is no way in a million years he's to blame for the state of the club. He's got about 6 players on huge wages that he didn't sign and has tried to sell but can't. Does that happen at any other club? Does Pep have players he doesn't want? Complete insanity.

The next exit for Man Utd has to be the Glazers, there the infection that has spread right through that club.

The first 29 minutes Utd were in control and looking good. Brighton score with their first reel attack and as per usual the players heads drop. Liverpool, City and spurs all bounced back from going behind yesterday, but Man Utd don't have that mentality and haven't for a long time. Because they have to many average players on huge wages on easy street.
 
Brighton worked out our plan and changed it tactically after 20 mins or so. The manager or the players didn't react leaving acres of space down the wings for Brightons fullbacks.

I'm afraid neither casemiro, Mctominay or eriksen have the legs to cover the ground and shut down those type of attacks in a diamond formation with no wingers.

Martinez is having a shocker this season but who else is there with Varane injured...Maguire or Evans anyone?😵‍💫

Not looking forward to Bayern Munich on Wednesday...I can see 4 or 5 nil on the cards if we carry on with these performances.
 
Utd are a mess. The Board, and that may by default include the Glaziers, are mainly to blame. Too many players on too much money, who Utd paid too much to sign and who can thus only be shifted at a massive loss. Sancho on 350kpw. Salah isnt even on that and even the most dyed in the wool, one eyed Utd fan would admit Salah is a better player. Sancho isn't and has never been one of Utd's best players so why the **** give him that money?
Maguire is the same. DDG too.
Utd turned down 30m for McTom…why? That's decent money for a squad player. Maguire not wanting to leave is a different matter.

Utd paid what, 80m for Maguire who has never looked worth even half of that. 90m(?) for Anthony, who is as one footed as they come and barely looks worth a third of that price. Sancho was 70m and has flattered to deceive for years now. How much for Onana who doesn't look to be better than DDG, albeit I get he is better at playing out and that's what ETH wants. Pogba was one of the worst signings in PL history. Lukaku was a waste of space. AWB has been ok, in patches, but he is very limited in terms of offensive output and yet he cost 50m.

The whole structure at Utd is off. They buy players seemingly willy nilly, each to suit the manager who never stays more than 2 years, then over pay for the player and over pay him, leaving themselves short of funds now. The Glazier's leeching money doesn't help, but Utd managers HAVE ALL been backed. You can argue they may not have wanted the club to spend as much on player X or pay him as much but each manager has had financial backing. Yes, they may not have got their primary target, hello Harry how are the german lessons going?, but then Klopp didn't get Touchemeni, Bellingham, or Caicedo and he managed with his 2nd or 3rd choice options.

The other issue at Utd is the lack of progress any player makes. Bar Fernandes, can anyone name me a player who has signed for Utd and got better? If you pay top drawer for a player, over pay him and then make him worse, you'll struggle to win much and you'll definitely struggle to shift them on. THAT is on the manager, various managers, who Utd have had. The Board and Glazier's get no blame there.

We all know what the Glazier's are and that they wont sell until they get twice what the club is worth. So there's no point in Utd fans demanding they leave, they wont and they don't give a **** what you lot say or do, as long as the money keeps rolling in. Even if it dries up, they will be the first bill to be paid, even if the club has to borrow to pay them, and they wont care what damage that does


As for Saturday, Yeah, Utd did well until DeZerbi rumbled their diamond and pushed his full backs up to take advantage of the space out wide in midfield. But, ehhh ETH is allowed to counter a tactical change. He doesn't have to just sit there and watch. He can shift to a flat 3 or 4 in midfield to counter it, or he can get his wingers to go and stand where Brighton's full backs would normally be and exploit the gaps they have left. None of it is rocket science. If I can work it out off the top of my head and I have zero football coaching badges or experience managing, surely someone on however many million a year should be able to do the same, or better?
 
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Yes Ten Hag got schooled on Saturday tactically and that will happen still a working progress and players heads drop when they go 1-0 down 100%. But let's face it losing 3-1 at home to Brighton isn't the main issue at Man Utd, that result and worse happens all the time far too often. Way before Ten Hag joined under multiple managers. Pointing the finger at Ten Hag is ridiculous, he worked miracles last season with a small squad and fans have very short memories. Blaming Ten Hag is like the Titanic captain cutting off the top 2 metres of an iceberg and thinking you've solved the problem.

Bayern Munich will be interesting and I can see Ten Hag getting a result.

We do have a huge injury crises, last season must have had an impact on the players just like Liverpool the season before.

Rashford is a problem, 12 shots he had on Saturday and Hojland had zero chances created for him. That's a left winger with no idea.

As for Scot Mc Hide behind the midfield, deal was with the two clubs he refused to sign. What can you do player power has always prevailed under the Glazers for the last decade.

As for all the managers being backed I agree to an extent, but backing Ten Hag this summer would have looked more like getting rid of Martial, Scot Mc Scooby Doo, Maquire and Sancho. Signing the players we did plus Kane, Kim Min Jay, Rice and another midfielder. Letting all your rivals have a better window and only giving Ten Hag 6 or 7 players under permanent deals in the first 3 windows is not backing him.

The Glazers love this because the heat is off them while the manager struggles.
 
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Utd do have a good few out, but partly that is self inflicted. Anthony and Greenwood are unavailable for off field reasons, the latter has been a known problem for a while. Sancho was unprofessional at City and Dortmund so him being a **** can hardly have been a surprise to Utd. I guess all three boil down to club not doing their due diligence on signings. I know Pool/Klopp are as interested in the player's personality as they are his ability. The personality decides if they make a move or not. Obviously, that doesn't guarantee success but it limits the down side, and Utd may well have ended up with one or two of three above happening even if they had dug deeper…**** happens….but the chances would have been reduced. It's all about improving the odds of success/reducing the chance of failure.

Is that true on McTom? I thought Utd rejected WH's offer?

The whole Kane transfer is non starter. Levy would have wanted 150-200m to sell him to a PL club. Probably closer to the latter. Utd were never going to pay that. Even Chelsea aren't dumb enough to pay that. So signing him was never a realistic option. Kim and Rice were plausible. Albeit I have heard Rice had his heart set on Arsenal, he is a Laaaandan boy, so Utd may well have lost out there regardless.

You do realise Ten Hag has a higher net spend than Klopp? And I dont mean, 'than Klopp since Ten Hag arrived'. In the three windows ETH has been in charge of Utd he has spent more money, net, than Klopp has spent in his entire (all but a month of) 8 years at Pool.
DeZerbi has been at Brighton for less time than ETH has been at Utd and he has improved almost every player there. I cant think of any Utd players, bar the Freddy Mercury look alike, who has improved under ETH (or any of his predecessors).

Utd are just a basket case. They need a complete change in structure. Even the signings of Casemiro and Varane are questionable. Both great great players, don't get me wrong, BUT both past their best, came in for big fees, command big big wages and have very little sell on value. They are short term sticking plasters. Very very good sticking plasters, but in 2yrs they will need replaced and the cost will not be small.
 
Ten Hag hasn't spent any money, the prat's running the show do the negotiations. It's well known that Man Utd are a laughing stock throughout Europe when it comes to transfers. It's not Ten Hags fault the club always over pays for players. Ten Hag has spent more than Klopp and done better than Klopp since he's been in the PL!!!!! He's had a better first season than Pep and Klopp in fact.

Seen as Liverpool nearly did the quadruple the season before Ten Hag took over and Man Utd had the worst ever PL season for a Man Utd team I would say to compete for the title you need a complete new squad of at least 16 players bought in. Do the maths on that. Liverpool, Man City and Arsenal all had a better summer transfer window than Man Utd 100% true. Signing players like Kane and Rice was possible for Man Utd until the Glazers took over.

All roads lead to the owners, who do you give the credit to Man City for their success over the last 15 years? The owners mostly, same if the owners fail.
 
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Ohh, I don't disagree that ETH has done well. I think he is a great manager and I said as much when Utd were after him. And in my initial post I said it was arguable if he wanted the club to spend as much on certain players.

I do think the squad he inherited was better than the one Klopp inherited at Pool though. He's a year and a bit in to the job, he needs time. And I agree, pretty much all the problems at Utd can be blamed on the owners and or the structure they put in place. With the exception of the lack of progress made by signings at Utd under his tenure. One or two signings not working out is normal. Keita wasn't a huge success at Pool, the jury is still out on Nunez as well. So I cut ETH a little slack, but the fact no one he has signed has improved is, a best, a worry (for Utd fans).

As for his first season being better than Klopp or Pep, I don't know if that's true or not. I could well be. The more important factor is how Pool and City kicked on under Klopp and Pep in seasons 2, 3 and 4. ETH needs to continue to progress with Utd. And that is "progress" not 'win the league/CL'. If he gets Utd closer to whoever wins the PL this year (in terms of pts) and maybe has a decent run in the CL, that is progress. If Utd get duffed in the first knockout round of the CL and miss the top 5 (I think it's five places this year cos the CL expands/gets ruined from next season) then that's probably regression. Albeit the path is progress is rarely smooth.

I would also add Pool were an utter shambles last year and finishing above them is probably not something to be overly chuffed about. But I am biased in that respect.

Agreed on City's success being down to their owners…..ie BOUGHT. Ditto Chelsea. Not sure if Pool's owners get the credit for their success though. There is a very strong 'FSG out' contingent amongst Pool fans. Do Arsenal's owners get the credit for their success? Genuine question. Or does it go to Arteta, or 'luck' as @edd_jedi would say lol?

Either way Come on zeee Germans! 😉
 
The owners have backed Arteta, they've listened when he said feck off x, y or z underperforming/disruptive player and have broadly bought who he asked for. The structure of the decision makers at board and footballing level has been done to his requirements more or less. The academy is being run like the 1st team from what I can see, the womens team has also been brought along the journey.
Overall the owners have done broadly what you'd hope for since they got 100% of the shares. (Glossing over the European super douper league debacle)

add to all that Arteta being good as a coach and I don't think there's much more that fans can ask for?
 
Klopps first 4 seasons in charge albeit the first season was half a season and pretty much a squad that had got to within 3 or 4 games of winning the league 2 seasons before? Anyway his first 4 seasons, 8th, 4th, 4th and second and no trophy until the 4th season. He was given time to build a squad mentality and progress. Ten Hag has improved Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Malacia, Lindaflop, both right backs and pretty much the entire fortunes of the club that finished 8th with 58 points the season before he took over.

The biggest problem any manager will have at Man Utd is player power always wins. Look at Sancho he publicly criticised Ten Hag and is still at the club a £75 million player that Ten Hag didn't and wouldn't have signed who is on £350k a week does that to his coach and the owners haven't stepped in and said your out because they can't. Because the club is bankrupt.

Ten Hag is by no means perfect and Klopp and Artetta and Pep are all better. But none of them would go anywhere near that job because they know the clubs a circus act from top to bottom. Ten Hag is walking a tightrope while wearing ice skates with a load of clowns on his back blindfolded. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he fell off. Apart from the first 5 games of this season is done unbelievably well.
 
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theforceuk said:
Klopps first 4 seasons in charge albeit the first season was half a season and pretty much a squad that had got to within 3 or 4 games of winning the league 2 seasons before? Anyway his first 4 seasons, 8th, 4th, 4th and second and no trophy until the 4th season.
Click to expand...

And…. A Worthless cup final, a EL final, a CL final and then a CL win. 😉

And the squad that finished second had a bloke called Suarez up front and Daniel Sturridge playing the only season of his life where he wasn't injured for 99% of the games.

Ten Hag has improved Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Malacia, Lindaflop, both right backs and pretty much the entire fortunes of the club that finished 8th with 58 points the season before he took over
Click to expand...

Hhhmmmm, not sure on improving any of that lot, bar Bruno. It's hard to judge given Utd, and most of their players, were so bad at the end of Ole's reign. ETH has got Rashford looking like a footballer again, whether that counts as an improvement probably depends on whether you judge it against Rashford at the end of Ole's time, or against 'good Rashford' before the **** hit the fan for Ole. If it's the first, then yes. If it's the second, then no, all he has done is get him out of a rut.
AWB is still an utter liability going forward. That hasn't changed. Malacia is a new signing and has been injured for most of his time so I'm giving him a bye ball. Lindeloft is kinda similar to Rashford, plus he benefits from NOT having Fat Maguire beside him every week.
theforceuk said:
The biggest problem any manager will have at Man Utd is player power always wins. Look at Sancho he publicly criticised Ten Hag and is still at the club a £75 million player that Ten Hag didn't and wouldn't have signed who is on £350k a week does that to his coach and the owners haven't stepped in and said your out because they can't. Because the club is bankrupt.
Click to expand...

Agreed, although was the window not closed when Sancho went full retard? Leaving only Turkey and Saudi as possible destinations. The former couldn't afford him and apparently he doesn't want the latter. Not a lot Utd can do there, bar fine him and **** him off with the reserves.

theforceuk said:
Ten Hag is by no means perfect and Klopp and Artetta and Pep are all better. But none of them would go anywhere near that job because they know the clubs a circus act from top to bottom. Ten Hag is walking a tightrope while wearing ice skates with a load of clowns on his back blindfolded. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he fell off. Apart from the first 5 games of this season is done unbelievably well.
Click to expand...
Agreed, albeit I think he will stick with it. He doesn't strike me as someone who quits. Poached by someone else, possibly, but I don't see him walking and there is no danger of Utd sacking him ATM. Only the idiot fans are calling for him to go. The kinda ******* who will curse a player/manager one minute then insist he is "world class" the next.
Plus, I think even the muppets that run Utd are starting to realise that just sacking managers is not the solution. But, if Utd continue to struggle in mid-table (and I dont think they will) then that could change. Get a few injured players back and get amrabat and your new striker fit and Utd will be in the running for a European spot along with 6 or 7 other sides.
 
No there were offers for Sancho from Saudi and Turkey. Also Scot Mc Tominay just had to sign on the dotted line for Fulham but he refused.

I'm confused how you go from finishing 8 with 58 points and no trophy to finishing 3rd with a 17 point improvement and a trophy without improving pretty much every player at some level when he only had 5 incoming players and 6 outgoing? You need to explain that better @weasel genuinely how is that possible or are you just going on the 5 games this season? Liverpool and Chelsea were crap but Arsenal and Newcastle were miles better than previous season.

This conversation could go on forever, for me Ten Hag has 5 years and needs 24 of his own players. We've tried the serial winner, the ex player legend, the experienced club stability guy and the out of the box small time coach and they've all failed under this regime. Ten Hag will go and get a big job after this and will be backed. When I say getting backed that's 50% buying and 50% selling.

I didn't realise losing in finals counted as success for Liverpool. 😉 It took Klopp 4 years to put a title challenge together.

Blaming this on Ten Hag is like walking into a room that's full of junk, stained carpets and mouldy sofa. At the back there's a nice new TV on the wall and the first thing you do is change the TV for a similarly one and expect the room to be miles better. Ridiculously low IQ if anyone thinks that's a good idea.
 
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I know there were no offers for Sancho, I was saying Turkey and Saudi where the only two places he could have gone cos the European window was shut.

I'm not blaming all of this on ETH, far from it, I just think he has to take his fair share of the blame, along with the players and the owners/Board. I do think he is the best man for the job. No idea who else Utd would even go for. Would DeZerbi actually want the job?

As far as explaining things better goes, part of the reason Utd improved last year (along with the fact Pool and Chelsea imploded) was the new manager bounce ETH enjoyed. OGS had something similar. I remember Rio Ferdinand making a complete dick of himself after you robbed PSG in the CL (and that's not a sly dig at Utd, I actually cheered for you in that game as PSG are a shower of diving *****, but they were the better side. Which made Utd's win all the more fun).
Ole got his bounce as much because he wasn't Jose as anything else. I even remember Pogba turned up for the first few months of Ole's reign and actually threatened to look like the player you thought you had signed. Then he remembered to be a waster and reverted to type. ETH, like most new managers, got a bounce.
It's probably unfair to compare the Utd team RIGHT before he arrived to the one at the end of last season. Right before he arrived Utd were as bad as they had ever been (in my footballing memory), that was an artificial low. That team wasn't AS bad as it's league position suggested. They had just lost all confidence and had a manager who wasn't gonna be there next season so was a dead man walking, oh and he was ****. So you had good players underperforming massively. Getting those players to the level of, say, 'inconsistent' or just 'poor' are both "improvements" but the players are still under performing. For me that's not actually improving them, just making them less bad. Maybe I am splitting hairs, but hopefully you see the point I am trying to make.

And a chunk of the blame for, in my opinion, ETH (and his predecessors) not improving any of players also lies with the over paid players themselves. Too many seem content to coast rather than knuckle down and work fecking hard.

Ohh and as for what constitutes success for Liverpool, during large chunks of the 90's winning a fecking game was success! A cup quarter final would be celebratory DVD year! Luckily Utd won **** all during that time too so it wasn't too bad. 🥹🙄

Predictions for tonight? It has that feel about it where it will either end up with Utd winning, or getting absolutely hammered. Needless to say I'm hoping for the latter
 

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