I've seen enough football matches to know it's rarely ever fair or as simple as looking at the stats, but from a purely objective view, you would say 11 men beating 9 at home is completely 'fair' and even a draw would have been a massive achievement for Liverpool yesterday. We do have a habit of playing terribly against teams with red cards though!
Premier League 23/24 Thread
- Thread starter lejackal
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100% agree with every word Ed.
I was certain logging on this morning that I would read about how Spurs didn't deserve to win and how poor the ref was etc.
In balance of the last 2-3 years Liverpool still have more decisions their way than going to Spurs. Jota kick to Skipp face jumps to mind that should've seen red without question… far worse than either sending off yesterday.
Champions league final decision anyone?!?
To suggest the goal guarantees (as many on Facebook and Instagram have said) meant that Pool would win the game is ridiculous. Already down to ten men and a half to play. If anything I would expect Spurs to have been more aggressive and complete in their attack. As Weasel says correctly, the lack of a plan from Spurs when Pool down to 9 was pretty shameful.
On to the next rollercoaster ride…
lejackal
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All I have to say, having just watched the offside decision, is that whoever was on VAR should be sacked- they may not have drawn lines but **** me the line of the pitch was right there, it's onside clear as day. Stevie Wonder would have got that right
Can't disagree, it was wrong.
I do believe that folk need to be made accountable for the mistakes.
I also believe in the balance of history even with VAR getting things right and wrong, it all balances out as it generally did pre-VAR
I do believe that folk need to be made accountable for the mistakes.
I also believe in the balance of history even with VAR getting things right and wrong, it all balances out as it generally did pre-VAR
I can only assume you didn't watch the game. Klopp played it as well as anyone could be expected to when they are down to 10 inside 25 minutes and down to 9 with 20 to go.
Agreed, that's part of the joy/pain of football. We can all remember games where our team has dominated had 200 shots and the other team have strung 6 passes together and yet they win 1-0. And vice versa, Pool winning the CL in '05 being a prime example.
I'm not a fan of "whataboutery" I live in a country where politicians have done nothing but that for decades all it gets us is ever deepening circles of hatred. But…..Yes, Jota should have gone back then. I think I said that at the time. But from memory was there not a Spurs player who got away with a stinker before Jota's one. It may even have been Skipp himself. Did he boot Gakpo in he chest? And as for the CL final, I said at the time and multiple times since, that should not have been a penalty and I wouldn't have given it and don't want to see pens like that given.
There is also the shocker tackle Kane put in on Robertson that he only got booked for. Both teams can point to the other getting beneficial/lucky/soft/poor calls from the Ref and VAR. But those are subjective, offside is cut and dry. You are either on or off. It's like goal line technology. It's either over the line or it isn't. There is no debate. Red card tackles are rarely such that 100% of fans would agree they are correct.
As for that goal guaranteeing Pool a win, I agree. Tiz rubbish. The entire game would have been different, as I said, Spurs may have woken up and won 5-1, or they may have imploded and lost 5-1. We'll never know. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't have hurt Pool's chances of winning, but we'll never know.
And fair ****s to Spurs they do look a world better under Ange. The cynic in me suspects they will revert to type soon enough…..they are Spurs after all…..but they are playing really well. I would love to have seen how that game would have ended up at 11vs11 yesterday, or even if VAR hadn't had the brain fart on the disallowed goal. Spurs may well have won by more, or lost 0-20, we will never know. It does show what a **** job Jose and Conte were doing though.
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I watched the game, Spurs were getting into Liverpool before the sending off. Klopp is to one dimensional IMO. If he changed tactics occasionally he may have finished above Man City more than once in the last 8 years.
I missed big chunks of the first half, but the game was on in the background. From what I heard and saw, Pool did amazingly well considering the man disadvantage for an hour and a two man disadvantage for 20mins plus stoppage time.
As far as Klopp changing tactics, ehhh Pool finished the game playing 5-3-0. That ain't their normal set up. Klopp often goes 4-2-4 in games when Pool are behind too. His teams all play high tempo pressing football, that's just his style. The same as Pep's all play what is called 'tici taka'. If you mean Klopp should go long ball, Fat Sam style, more often then I don't think that will happen. Nor will his teams ever play Tony Pulis-esque eye gougingly brutal GBH football. Nor would/will Pep's. Nor did Fergy's, or Wenger's, or Jose's.
And there is shame in ONLY finishing above City once in 8years?
They are probably the best side the PL has seen, certainly under Pep. They have spent more than any other side, possibly bar Chelsea given their efforts in the last year. They have smashed the PL record points total. They are only the second side to do a treble. And they may well have cheated….115 times to win those titles.
No shame in coming second to them.
Ohhh and to have managed two of the four best EVER PL points totals in doing it. Meaning two of those Liverpool, sides have been in the top four best sides EVER to play in the PL. Unfortunately, one of them happened to come up against a City side who also happened to be in that top four, and a place higher. The shame!
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Points total doesn't mean anything unless you finish first. It's actually a complement saying if Klopp changed his tactics more he may have finished above City more than once. It wasn't meant in a derogatory way at all. I just think Klopp needs to change or he will get left behind.
'Tick taka' translates to pass and move, the Spanish didn't invent it just perfected it. Same as 'the press' that's just another and better term for closing down which was done for decades before Pep and Klopp were coaching. Fed up of hearing how the game has been reinvented, its bollocks.
'Tick taka' translates to pass and move, the Spanish didn't invent it just perfected it. Same as 'the press' that's just another and better term for closing down which was done for decades before Pep and Klopp were coaching. Fed up of hearing how the game has been reinvented, its bollocks.
The offside decision was dreadful- definitely 'up there' in terms of VAR cock-ups. However, they are now embarrassing themselves with their 'statement'. Liverpool talking about "sporting integrity" when they and five other clubs were quite happy to shaft the remaining 14 Premiership teams when it looked like it would benefit them. This sort of stuff has happened to loads of other 'lower' teams- our game at Anfield just last week saw Bowen clearly taken down in the area, yet VAR apparently didn't even check it. It didn't even appear on the highlights. Robertson basically had free reign to kick everyone in sight, VVD similar. The ref literally gave Liverpool every decision, but this happens with such routine regularity, that fans of the Sky 6 often seem oblivious. If teams like Wolves, WHU, Palace etc try to make a fuss, no one listens. As for Jota, totally serves him right. Horrible snide of a player and usually gets away with it. Are Liverpool expecting a replay or something? Who do they think they are? Didn't see them complain when this happened https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/21018796/unseen-footage-liverpool-wolves-offside-goal-fa-cup/
I agree that VAR isn't working. The offside stuff should be relatively straight forward though- maybe we should adopt the semi-automated system they use on the continent.
On a slightly different note, I saw some interesting stats from our game vs MC the other week. We committed more fouls and got more bookings, but when possession was taken into account, we fouled them every 8 mins they had the ball and they fouled us every 3 mins we had the ball. Snidey little trips, pulls, pushes etc. Liverpool were similar and they get away with it, year in, year out. At the end of the day it's cheating and it's so frustrating to hear the pundits calling it 'cute' and 'clever'. Last season VVD tried to scuff up the penalty spot before we took our pen. Pundit, Eni Aluko said words to the effect of: 'I've go no problem with that- it's all part of the game.' My son's U15 football team played against the Forest Green girls team last week (who are U16's). They were hideous with their shithousery. Shared out tactical fouls aplenty, throwing and kicking the ball away to waste time etc. It saddened me to see that this obviously 'taught' behaviour has even infiltrated the professional women's game at such a young age.
I agree that VAR isn't working. The offside stuff should be relatively straight forward though- maybe we should adopt the semi-automated system they use on the continent.
On a slightly different note, I saw some interesting stats from our game vs MC the other week. We committed more fouls and got more bookings, but when possession was taken into account, we fouled them every 8 mins they had the ball and they fouled us every 3 mins we had the ball. Snidey little trips, pulls, pushes etc. Liverpool were similar and they get away with it, year in, year out. At the end of the day it's cheating and it's so frustrating to hear the pundits calling it 'cute' and 'clever'. Last season VVD tried to scuff up the penalty spot before we took our pen. Pundit, Eni Aluko said words to the effect of: 'I've go no problem with that- it's all part of the game.' My son's U15 football team played against the Forest Green girls team last week (who are U16's). They were hideous with their shithousery. Shared out tactical fouls aplenty, throwing and kicking the ball away to waste time etc. It saddened me to see that this obviously 'taught' behaviour has even infiltrated the professional women's game at such a young age.
Agreed on Pool's statement. I don't know quite what their intention is. If it is a statement along the lines of "enough is enough, sort this **** out" then fair enough. VAR, or the morons that work it are deciding/ruining too many games. Look at that pen Brentford were denied, the striker gets the ball the keeper boots him and no pen. Anywhere else on the pitch and with anyone other than a keeper and that's a pen. I'm getting sick of talking about VAR making daft calls for stuff we can all see is a foul/pen. The Wolves non pen at Utd is the same, and it did get a fair bit of attemtion. If Pool are using their higher profile as one of the bigger clubs, to try and force the FA to sort out VAR and stop it being a shambles, then I support that. TBH I would expect most sane football fans to support it, club loyalty aside, VAR/the idiots working it are ruining football and if it takes one club, even one you hate, to stand up and say 'enough' I'd support it. We all know sooner or later our own club's will be victims to a VAR shocker and if we are really lucky we will get an apology as someone else gets 1-3pts or away with a leg breaker. It needs to stop. It needs sorted out. And it needs sorted out TWO ****ING YEARS AGO.
On the other hand if Pool are trying to get a replay or some form of compensation. Wise the **** up. It's done and dusted, move on. Make the FA/VAR learn the lessons from this, but there is no way games can be replayed/restarted or compensation awarded.
I'm hoping Pool are trying the former, it would be out of character to try the latter, albeit some moron fans on social media may want it.
I agree, Pool and City are brilliant at/notorious for (delete as appropriate) the tactical foul, and I fully understand why that frustrates people. It's a bit like play acting, it's creeping into the game and some people see it as clever, whereas some see it as cheating. I am a but down the middle. Done well, it is effective, done constantly and you are Atletico Madrid.
On the other hand if Pool are trying to get a replay or some form of compensation. Wise the **** up. It's done and dusted, move on. Make the FA/VAR learn the lessons from this, but there is no way games can be replayed/restarted or compensation awarded.
I'm hoping Pool are trying the former, it would be out of character to try the latter, albeit some moron fans on social media may want it.
I agree, Pool and City are brilliant at/notorious for (delete as appropriate) the tactical foul, and I fully understand why that frustrates people. It's a bit like play acting, it's creeping into the game and some people see it as clever, whereas some see it as cheating. I am a but down the middle. Done well, it is effective, done constantly and you are Atletico Madrid.
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I would prefer to return to the days when officials made real-time mistakes without VAR. I can accept the human error aspect, where officials had to make split-second decisions, and we could quickly determine the outcome.
Now, we have to endure a two-minute wait, which slows down the game, only for them to still get it wrong. It's become a disaster, and the referees, particularly the VAR officials, are under immense pressure due to recent events.
Now, we have to endure a two-minute wait, which slows down the game, only for them to still get it wrong. It's become a disaster, and the referees, particularly the VAR officials, are under immense pressure due to recent events.
I can see your logic, and I do sympathise. Personally, I don't hate VAR but I do think the guys who run it need to be replaced. They are pretty much all incompetent. Too often they look for some way to show that cos of rule 238, section 4 sub section 3, paragraph 2 that yer man taking a chainsaw to the other team's keeper isn't actually a foul. When any sane football fan would just look at it and go, "Aye, that's a foul. You cant do that."
The whole 'clear and obvious' thing needs looked at. Too often, it seems, VAR look at an incident (the Wolves non pen) and think "well, I can see why he didnt give it, so no need to over turn it." When, again, any sane football fan knows that it's a penalty.
There will always be issues with the subjective decisions. Was Curtis Jones' tackle worthy of a red card? I think it was, and I'm a Liverpool fan. Yet most ex pro's, including the die hard Liverpool fan Gnev, say it shouldn't be.
It's the non subjective ones that VAR should not be getting wrong. Offside, being the prime example. You are either offside or not. The technology gives you a 100% certain answer. Yet we see them **** up like on Sunday, forget to draw the lines, draw them in the wrong place (now impossible, I think) or use an angle that misses the Arsenal player literally FIFTEEN ****ING YARDS offside. Those are the decisions that infuriate me, and not just cos some of them have harmed Pool. They are school boy level mistakes in a multi billion Pound industry. If any of us did that at work we would be fired. The PGMOL guys, get a week off.
I don't like the old boys ex-pro network who say you need an ex player in the VAR team, but I do think someone who isn't a referee should be included. Be that an ex player or a fan. Just someone who doesn't care about obscure rules but who knows that punching the opposition striker in the head (Onana), kicking through him (the Forest keeper on Monday night) or planting your foot in his head/chest (Jota and whoever it was who booted Gakpo) are ****ing penalties or red cards. Those aspects are not difficult. They should be getting them right a lot more than they do.
The whole 'clear and obvious' thing needs looked at. Too often, it seems, VAR look at an incident (the Wolves non pen) and think "well, I can see why he didnt give it, so no need to over turn it." When, again, any sane football fan knows that it's a penalty.
There will always be issues with the subjective decisions. Was Curtis Jones' tackle worthy of a red card? I think it was, and I'm a Liverpool fan. Yet most ex pro's, including the die hard Liverpool fan Gnev, say it shouldn't be.
It's the non subjective ones that VAR should not be getting wrong. Offside, being the prime example. You are either offside or not. The technology gives you a 100% certain answer. Yet we see them **** up like on Sunday, forget to draw the lines, draw them in the wrong place (now impossible, I think) or use an angle that misses the Arsenal player literally FIFTEEN ****ING YARDS offside. Those are the decisions that infuriate me, and not just cos some of them have harmed Pool. They are school boy level mistakes in a multi billion Pound industry. If any of us did that at work we would be fired. The PGMOL guys, get a week off.
I don't like the old boys ex-pro network who say you need an ex player in the VAR team, but I do think someone who isn't a referee should be included. Be that an ex player or a fan. Just someone who doesn't care about obscure rules but who knows that punching the opposition striker in the head (Onana), kicking through him (the Forest keeper on Monday night) or planting your foot in his head/chest (Jota and whoever it was who booted Gakpo) are ****ing penalties or red cards. Those aspects are not difficult. They should be getting them right a lot more than they do.
The transcript shows exactly why the cock up happened, there's a reason why the military, police, and aviation etc speak formally on radios, so they don't accidentally blow somebody up! None of this "yeah mate that's the one, good job bro" just clearly say in English exactly what your decision is 
I know, I'll get it over it eventually. Give me a few years.Arsenal player literally FIFTEEN ****ING YARDS offside
Still wasn't offside
Summed up well @edd_jedi. It sounds exactly like three mates having a mess about, not blokes at work in a multi billion pound industry/game.
For the record, Klopp's call for a replay is utter bollocks. You can't go replaying games, even for a **** up like that. MAYBE he means it as a way of showing to the FA how much of a problem it is, but in no serious way can a replay even be considered.
Ohhh and who had Onana for worst signing of the season?
So the 2030 World Cup is going to be hosted in Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay (makes sense so far) and... Spain, Portugal and Morocco!? Did the FIFA president skip geography in school? How on earth is that going to work.
lejackal
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Can't wait to see the carbon neutral claims on that one…..
First 3 games in SAmerica to mark the centenary of the first WC. I think. The other 3 nations submitted a joint bid.
It is daft. But this is the organisation that had a WC in Qatar and Russia. Neither of which involved bribes as we all know
It is daft. But this is the organisation that had a WC in Qatar and Russia. Neither of which involved bribes as we all know
