- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 9,057
Football hey, bloody football!
Premier League 22/23 Thread
- Thread starter lejackal
- Start date
I saw the last few minutes of the play off, that was a **** equaliser, not that I think Sheffield Wed give a flying ****. Yer man who toe poked it 10 yards outside his box rather than putting it into orbit cost his team a place in the play off finals.
Still, some effort to over turn a 4-0 deficit. Fair ****s.
Also congrats to WH on making the ECL final. Would love to see them win it. I don't know much about Fiorentina, but Italian football isn't what it was, saying that they will still be a decent out fit. Fingers crossed for WH.
That's the CL places finalised now. Leicester will roll over this weekend so Newcastle are mathematically in and if Utd can't win two of their last three games, they lose all right to ever slag off Arsenal or Spurs for choking.
James Milner and Bobby Firmino's last games at Anfield tomorrow. I'll be sad to see both go. Milner must be one of the best free transfers in PL history. Both have been great for Liverpool and I wish them all the best in their new clubs. Ditto oxelaide-chamberlain and Keita actually. The former was on fire right up until he snapped his knee in the CL against City. He was the best player on the pitch in that game and has never been quite the same. The vicious circle of injuries and time required to regain form mean he is only ever getting match fit and back into consideration when he picks up another injury. I do feel for him. He has had no luck, and there is a player in there. Hopefully a move helps kick start his career. Similarly Phil Jones too.
As for Naby Keita, he has an amazing ability to go from amazing to utterly shite from one game to the next. I dunno how many years he has been at Pool, but I still don't know what to make of him. Is he a good player who is prone to the odd pish game, or a **** player who occasionally pulls a great game out of his ass? Answers on a postcard.
Lucas Moura leaves Spurs. He can play against Liverpool any time he wants, ideally in stoppage time and somewhere near his own team's box. (Sorry @edd_jedi )
Still, some effort to over turn a 4-0 deficit. Fair ****s.
Also congrats to WH on making the ECL final. Would love to see them win it. I don't know much about Fiorentina, but Italian football isn't what it was, saying that they will still be a decent out fit. Fingers crossed for WH.
That's the CL places finalised now. Leicester will roll over this weekend so Newcastle are mathematically in and if Utd can't win two of their last three games, they lose all right to ever slag off Arsenal or Spurs for choking.
James Milner and Bobby Firmino's last games at Anfield tomorrow. I'll be sad to see both go. Milner must be one of the best free transfers in PL history. Both have been great for Liverpool and I wish them all the best in their new clubs. Ditto oxelaide-chamberlain and Keita actually. The former was on fire right up until he snapped his knee in the CL against City. He was the best player on the pitch in that game and has never been quite the same. The vicious circle of injuries and time required to regain form mean he is only ever getting match fit and back into consideration when he picks up another injury. I do feel for him. He has had no luck, and there is a player in there. Hopefully a move helps kick start his career. Similarly Phil Jones too.
As for Naby Keita, he has an amazing ability to go from amazing to utterly shite from one game to the next. I dunno how many years he has been at Pool, but I still don't know what to make of him. Is he a good player who is prone to the odd pish game, or a **** player who occasionally pulls a great game out of his ass? Answers on a postcard.
Lucas Moura leaves Spurs. He can play against Liverpool any time he wants, ideally in stoppage time and somewhere near his own team's box. (Sorry @edd_jedi )
Well all I need to say as a Spurs fan is "phew" 
but going into a bit more detail, it's always nice to see a young team do well, I think Arsenal deserved a CL spot, but not to win the title. In fact I think they punched massively above their weight, considering this is a team that hasn't qualified for the CL for 6 years. Here's my thoughts on why they fell short:
Why did City win it? Because they have the best manager, the league's top scorer, and practically two starting 11 squads. That's all there is to it, the reality is Arsenal are miles off in all three departments.
but going into a bit more detail, it's always nice to see a young team do well, I think Arsenal deserved a CL spot, but not to win the title. In fact I think they punched massively above their weight, considering this is a team that hasn't qualified for the CL for 6 years. Here's my thoughts on why they fell short:- While this means Leicester retain the award for flukiest PL winner, at least they had an experienced, proven manager at the helm. Arteta is still a rookie. It would have been equally ridiculous if Lampard, Stevie G, OGS or even bloody Ryan Mason won the league, and look where they all are now. If Arteta wins the league in 5 years time, he will have my respect and will have earned it. But this would have been nothing but a fluke.
- Just as they don't have a world class manager, they don't really have any world class players either. Their top scorer isn't in the top 5, their keeper isn't even in the top 10 (Ramsdale is statistically worse than Lloris which says a lot.) So again, while it's nice to see up and coming players work effectively as a team and get some good results, that might deserve a top 6 finish, but not winning the PL (Brighton and Newcastle are great examples.)
- Arsenal had a hell of a lot of luck this season, and I'm not the only person who thinks this. Especially at the start of the season, everything was going their way - penalties, cards, other results, rearranged fixtures (they dodged playing City for 9 months) etc. It had to end eventually.
- Speaking of luck, they were incredibly fortunate that Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs all had their worst seasons in years, United had a new manager with a slow start, and City were often a couple of games behind them due to their involvement in other tournaments, so the table was rarely accurate anyway.
- Saying all that, considering they had an 8 point lead just a few weeks ago, there really is nobody to blame but themselves, 2 wins out of six is not title winning form.
Why did City win it? Because they have the best manager, the league's top scorer, and practically two starting 11 squads. That's all there is to it, the reality is Arsenal are miles off in all three departments.
lejackal
Grand Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 9,060
Why could he not win something on merit, rather than fluke? The managers you've compared him to are useless. Jose Mourinho had won the Portuguese league twice and the champions league at the same stage in his career. The next year he won the PL. Was that all a fluke?
Simply because experience and success go hand in hand. Would you appoint a 17 year old graduate as the CEO of a company? That's literally the equivalant of what Arsenal did. While Arteta clearly has a future, he does not have the experience yet. We all laughed at Sam Allardyce comparing himself to Guardiola and Klopp, but he has a point - he's been in this game for decades, knows everything there is to know about it. He has more pedigree as a manager than Arteta does, simple as that. Jose is a good example - he started in a small league and worked his way up, just as Stevie G did, although he took the leap to PL too early. Any way you spin it, putting a rookie in charge of a top 6 PL club is at least a massive gamble if not foolish, and every team that tried it apart from Arsenel failed miserably.
Also I just looked it up and while Jose started at Benfica in 2000 and won his first trophy in 2003, he had a 23 year gap between his playing career and his first managerial job, having done many coaching and other jobs in between.
Gotta say I agree with most of what @edd_jedi says there. I guess any team that does well can point to lucky moments, City won the league last yr cos they got a penalty at Wolves that hit the Wolves boys' armpit (weirdly VAR wasn't worrying about shirt lines then, especially as most of the ball hit his chest and not his arm). But Edd does have a point, at the start, in fact the first 60-70% of the season, a lot did go for Arsenal. I'm thinking of the Liverpool game at the Emirates in particular, three very close calls went Arsenal's way and each one led to a goal, in a game where they won 3-2, reverse each of those calls and Liverpool win 3-1.* And, yes, that is partly jealousy speaking, I wish Pool had had that luck. Saying all that, had we offered Arsenal the season they have had in August they would have bitten our arms off and been like a dog with two dicks. There is also zero shame in finishing second to that City side. They are special. (The Board have cheated to get them where they are, but take nothing away from what Pep and those players have achieved. They are a superb side and have been for five years). Arsenal have had a brilliant season, zero arguments from me.
Where do Arsenal go from here? That's the big question.
CL will allow them to attract more/better players in the summer, the money will help too. The squad does need more depth, and Partey needs to do time. Rapists should NOT be allowed to keep playing (see Mason Greenwood). The big question is will they pick up where they left off or will the psychological blow of dropping off in the title race (I don't wanna say "choking" as I always fancied City to grind out enough pts to win it) leave a nasty hangover? The fact they have CL midweek distractions next season may also hinder them, as they won't be able to rest half a team like they did in the EL this year. Plus Pool, and Spurs will have that advantage, and Chelsea will have midweeks off.
You would also assume Pool and Chelsea will be slightly less **** next season. City will still be City. Utd look to be on the right path, sadly, and even Villa look to be getting their act together. Next year's PL race, well, the race for second place and the CL spots as I don't think anyone is catching City, could be very very tight. And I haven't even mentioned Newcastle and their blank cheque book, or Brighton and their amazing ability to keep turning up diamonds (which will stop at some point, see Southampton). If I was a betting man, I suspect Arsenal will be well in the hunt for top four, I don't think anyone is stopping another City title procession, bar the PL/FA.
There's a big/interesting summer ahead for most of the top 8, bar City. Sorry, top 8…..and Chelsea.
* And yes, every club can point to games where the other side got lucky calls go their way that proved decisive. Edd may point to a certain winner at Anfield where the scorer should have been sat in the stands. My point is more that for Arsenal the start of the season was laced with a lot of games like the one I mentioned.
Where do Arsenal go from here? That's the big question.
CL will allow them to attract more/better players in the summer, the money will help too. The squad does need more depth, and Partey needs to do time. Rapists should NOT be allowed to keep playing (see Mason Greenwood). The big question is will they pick up where they left off or will the psychological blow of dropping off in the title race (I don't wanna say "choking" as I always fancied City to grind out enough pts to win it) leave a nasty hangover? The fact they have CL midweek distractions next season may also hinder them, as they won't be able to rest half a team like they did in the EL this year. Plus Pool, and Spurs will have that advantage, and Chelsea will have midweeks off.
You would also assume Pool and Chelsea will be slightly less **** next season. City will still be City. Utd look to be on the right path, sadly, and even Villa look to be getting their act together. Next year's PL race, well, the race for second place and the CL spots as I don't think anyone is catching City, could be very very tight. And I haven't even mentioned Newcastle and their blank cheque book, or Brighton and their amazing ability to keep turning up diamonds (which will stop at some point, see Southampton). If I was a betting man, I suspect Arsenal will be well in the hunt for top four, I don't think anyone is stopping another City title procession, bar the PL/FA.
There's a big/interesting summer ahead for most of the top 8, bar City. Sorry, top 8…..and Chelsea.
* And yes, every club can point to games where the other side got lucky calls go their way that proved decisive. Edd may point to a certain winner at Anfield where the scorer should have been sat in the stands. My point is more that for Arsenal the start of the season was laced with a lot of games like the one I mentioned.
lejackal
Grand Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 9,060
Lloris is better than Ramsdale? Let's see the stats then to support that.
Arteta wasn't appointed this year, he's been revamping the team for 4 years.
Top scorer is a frankly ridiculous way to judge a team, Kane has scored hundreds of pointless goals and won you sweet FA. The total goals scored and conceded is what counts. "not been in the CL for 6 years" is the club, not this team. Your "world class manager" and "world class striker" just pipped this team last season.
Arteta wasn't appointed this year, he's been revamping the team for 4 years.
Top scorer is a frankly ridiculous way to judge a team, Kane has scored hundreds of pointless goals and won you sweet FA. The total goals scored and conceded is what counts. "not been in the CL for 6 years" is the club, not this team. Your "world class manager" and "world class striker" just pipped this team last season.
Granted it's a bit of a **** stat, but "saves per 90 minutes" Lloris is 7th and Ramsdale is 15th: https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/47/stats/season/17664/players/saves
But my point is - golden glove? Nope. Top scorer? Nope. Most assists? Nope. Arsenal players haven't topped any list. It's no coincidence that City have won the title and Haaland has scored the most goals and De Bruyner has most assists.
And for what it's worth I have no problem admitting Spurs have been utter **** this season
But my point is - golden glove? Nope. Top scorer? Nope. Most assists? Nope. Arsenal players haven't topped any list. It's no coincidence that City have won the title and Haaland has scored the most goals and De Bruyner has most assists.
And for what it's worth I have no problem admitting Spurs have been utter **** this season
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 9,057
Come on lads credit to Arsenal for finishing second, Man City are miles ahead with the wealth they have and granted they have recruited well and Pep is a living legend as far as coaching goes. Next season will be a bigger test than this season for Arsenal, Spurs and Man Utd.
Congrats to Man City, well to their fans at least. It's not their fault if they've cheated, I don't begrudge other fans having success someone has to win.
DDG golden glove winner and only 8 goals conceded at old Trafford in the league all season so far, only one more than we conceded at Anfield in one game!
Congrats to Man City, well to their fans at least. It's not their fault if they've cheated, I don't begrudge other fans having success someone has to win.
DDG golden glove winner and only 8 goals conceded at old Trafford in the league all season so far, only one more than we conceded at Anfield in one game!
I was amazed DDG won the golden glove. Utd have been better this year but still nothing compared to City or Arsenal.
I guess it's a bit like judging a striker purely on goals scored. Obviously that is a big part of it, but if that was the only factor then the likes of Bergkamp, Sheringham, Firmino and Del Pierro would never have got a game. None were as prolific as their strike partners but ask any fan of their club and they will tell you how good they were.
Likewise with keepers, if you keep a CS in 50% of your games but ship 5 in every other game no manager will want you.
I know DDG didn't do that, I'm just saying judging a keeper purely on clean sheets doesn't tell the whole story.
And for the record, I wouldn't want Ramsdale or Lloris anywhere near my club. And yes, the likes of Ramsdale (whose nickname is "rambo"???? That's like calling Susan Boyle "Sexy") Ederson etc. face fewer shots than keepers at the bottom, like auld T-rex arms Pickford.
I guess it's a bit like judging a striker purely on goals scored. Obviously that is a big part of it, but if that was the only factor then the likes of Bergkamp, Sheringham, Firmino and Del Pierro would never have got a game. None were as prolific as their strike partners but ask any fan of their club and they will tell you how good they were.
Likewise with keepers, if you keep a CS in 50% of your games but ship 5 in every other game no manager will want you.
I know DDG didn't do that, I'm just saying judging a keeper purely on clean sheets doesn't tell the whole story.
And for the record, I wouldn't want Ramsdale or Lloris anywhere near my club. And yes, the likes of Ramsdale (whose nickname is "rambo"???? That's like calling Susan Boyle "Sexy") Ederson etc. face fewer shots than keepers at the bottom, like auld T-rex arms Pickford.
So after last night's result one of Everton or Leicester will definitely go down, I would actually like Leeds to beat Spurs this weekend now so we can dodge the Conference League and both went down! Who do you think will survive? I reckon Everton will scrape it, Leicester look like they've given up already.
I've also just noticed Chelsea will definitely now finish in the bottom half, that was 600m well spent it just shows that much as people call City cheaters, money alone doesn't buy success.
I've also just noticed Chelsea will definitely now finish in the bottom half, that was 600m well spent
it just shows that much as people call City cheaters, money alone doesn't buy success.
