Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Caswellbot]

If someone had unused cardbacks and bubbles and there was a pretty abundant supply of loose figures then it would definitely be worth the return. The tricky bit would probably be the sealing process.

Let's not lose sight of a few very interesting points on all this.

Jason doesn't come on here with the view to dropping toni in it. He was invited on here by a member. The Toni revelation comes out in one of his messages.

Toni says that he didn't know Arthur bailey very well but was actually a business partner with him for a few years.

Toni has had numerous ebay accounts and has now set the latest to private. Some of these accoubts were used to buy mint figure that correlate to the list Jason produced.

Toni has definitely sold unused palitoy cards backs in the past.

Toni goes silent.

We could get hung up on the seals but the chances are that over this many years you can bet that someone could get much better at sealing them. Looking for tells would probably work on some cards but not all as the sealing process would have evolved making common trends much more difficult to spot.

 

[finestcomics]

im going to get myself banned i ******* know it and am going to have to resort to going on tig and rs but have you or have you not already decided that your toni mocs are fake? im presuming that you have decided they are? so what would toni be able to say that would convince you otherwise? nothing is my guess at that so what would be the point of him doing so? it would seem that the ( most of it anyway ) community as a whole has already decided his guilt on the word of someone with a more than dubious reputation. so how long would you bang your head against a wall? or would you think **** this why bother? as has already been said ( theres those circles again ) theres pali and gm mocs with exactly the same seals as toni's that didnt come from toni, if the seals are so different dont you honestly think it wouldve been picked up by afa/ukg by now as well as all the people that have bought them from toni? let me ask you this, before all this did you think your toni mocs were fake?
im not defending toni, thats his job and if he chooses not to thats up to him but all this stuff about bubble alignment, bubble types, printing errors on cards is just clutching at straws from what i can see and proves nothing, you can check every palitoy card in the world and probably find something wrong with it as you can probably do the same with kenners.

To me, the investigative work belongs to Toni to prove beyond a doubt. Not me. As far as I'm concerned, the turd was dumped on the line, and I don't want to have anything to do with it from this day forward.

Asking him to refund me in the face of these allegations is not only "understandable" as he suggested, but justified, and him not responding to my requests or making any attempt to disprove what's been suggested either directly to me or to a community demanding answers screams wrongdoing.

 

[ace]

one thing we can agree on is this tread is important and thats why i have bothered to deal with all this thrash about me and my past , i have better things to do that defend myself agent people that do not know the truth and do not even know me but i say on her to see it to the end .

so how about this rather than coming out with random i think someone said comment you stick to he facts , thats what we have been doing on here all the time getting the facts and proving the facts .

hearsay and sorties from people with no names and no facts is just trash and dose not help anyone get to the bottom of this so ether call me out with facts on something and let me face my accuser or just give it a rest and lets get on with dealing with a real crime is that simple

jason

its very simple! the whole point of this thread is to air or portray ANY reasonable suspicion anyone may have about anything in regards to faked cards that they may have! NO? :wink: And seeing as I'm now left thinking near all of my TT moc are legit (i think) :| & the only deffo suspect one im left with is an ironed hoth stormie i loved ive turned my attention to working out where he and the many exactly like him with upside down bubbles came from, and ive since found out from the person i bought him from many years ago who bought it in the very early 90s himself in England says it was wasn't from TT which could mean it stemmed from you seeing as you had 500 hoth stormies during a very doubtful period as per written in this thread, did you not ??? , it might not mean this iron job does stem from you but these are the only facts i have right or wrong but i will know eventually as the blokes sivving thru any records he thinks he has on the who and where , and just too add any of this does not detract from anything TT has done and the possibility of his large scale fraud here that you seem concerned to tell me ,my concern right now is what i have and where that came from & sadly & unavoidably your in that loop , if your so kean to face an accuser and dispell any rumours and stick to facts why dont you ellaborate to me personally about these 500 hoths stormies you had as im obviously unclear as to exactly when you had them and what you done with them all , you can pm if you wish with an detailed answer if you feel you want too keep this thread to the real crime as you put it with only tonis dealings highlighted[/quote]



"jay" I can see you have not read the this thread in total . This has been covered weeks ago on here. If you want to disbelieve what i am saying fine, frankly i cannot be bothered to try to explain it anymore if you think i am guilty of something you know nothing about then good for you enjoy , but if you do read this thread it will explain and give the answers as i have posted about all this before .

I sold 500 odd Hoth troopers, your troopper may have come from me or jim stevenson as i bought them from Arthur Ballie and jim bought them from Toni so it could have come from any one of us or the peopel we sold them on to ?

These are the facts, the ironed figures are not the big story here there is no smoking gun here. if you had read this thread, as i have said i had these figures and boba fetts i have even given proof of this that i had then and sold then from collectors from the time and put the proof up on this thread, so what points you are trying to make Jay are old news its not what this is all about anymore. there is nothing i have to hide its been all gone over if you think you can find something my friend go for it but its going to turn out to be a waste of mine and your time, when the real issue the big faud and its these card backs and probably about £500.000k to £10,00,000m over the last 20 years by one person that will not say a word now even if he is still in the UK? and thats Toni

so jay say what every you want i cannot stop you all i can say is everyone thats been on here sins day one and myself have heard it already , believe what you want but i want to stick to trying to get the a point where we can prove what figures are affected and whats clean that will help many people what you are bringing up is just a wast of time .

sorry for being very frank with you jay but i do think we should help each other solve the real crime and wast more time nothing

 

[jimbody1]

Yeah agreed.

I can understand his scilenc.

But why buy all those mint figures under a second account?

i have three ebay accounts, ive bought loose figures on all of them over time, how many dealers on here have more than one account i know pete has, so has robbie, does this mean theyre doing something suspect? i dont think so. does toni sell in other places?, probably. so i asked myself is it worth buying u graded figures to break them out of their cases to put them on cards that have a chance of being found to be fake? the answer i came up with is no, is it worth buying figures ( looking at the screen shot ) cheap to sell them on again for more profit ( im sure this is what dealers have done for years ) yes. where is he selling them? i dont know. is it possible he has more than two ebay accounts? hell yeah!

 

[jimbody1]

If someone had unused cardbacks and bubbles and there was a pretty abundant supply of loose figures then it would definitely be worth the return. The tricky bit would probably be the sealing process.

Let's not lose sight of a few very interesting points on all this.

Jason doesn't come on here with the view to dropping toni in it. He was invited on here by a member. The Toni revelation comes out in one of his messages.

Toni says that he didn't know Arthur bailey very well but was actually a business partner with him for a few years.

Toni has had numerous ebay accounts and has now set the latest to private. Some of these accoubts were used to buy mint figure that correlate to the list Jason produced.

Toni has definitely sold unused palitoy cards backs in the past.

Toni goes silent.

We could get hung up on the seals but the chances are that over this many years you can bet that someone could get much better at sealing them. Looking for tells would probably work on some cards but not all as the sealing process would have evolved making common trends much more difficult to spot.

dont mean to be funny mate but i bet you , me and just about everyone else on here has bought figures named on jases list.

 

[lee gray]

Here are scans of the Palitoy Hoth Stormtrooper cardback with a Boots price sticker on that I've owned since 1983 which may come in useful as a comparison to the Toni cards:

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/jamashsim72/img002_zps4956a707.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60/jamashsim72/img003_zps7e364b96.jpg

Hope the links work.

James.

Which proves that even with the red blob on the back they were sold in store as QC wasnt top priority now heres Tofu the cuttest 3 legged dog around [youtube]ITFJgSld8xk[/youtube]

 

[finestcomics]

Yeah agreed.

I can understand his scilenc.

But why buy all those mint figures under a second account?

i have three ebay accounts, ive bought loose figures on all of them over time, how many dealers on here have more than one account i know pete has, so has robbie, does this mean theyre doing something suspect? i dont think so. does toni sell in other places?, probably. so i asked myself is it worth buying u graded figures to break them out of their cases to put them on cards that have a chance of being found to be fake? the answer i came up with is no, is it worth buying figures ( looking at the screen shot ) cheap to sell them on again for more profit ( im sure this is what dealers have done for years ) yes. where is he selling them? i dont know. is it possible he has more than two ebay accounts? hell yeah!

I have two eBay accounts. At one time three, but decided to combine the buying/selling some 10 years ago. The matter at hand suggests something else, which is the immediate knee-jerk reaction to changing his profile to private once this revelation surfaced. An eBay account which has a record of "best condition" loose figure purchases. Does the average joe with no history of selling MOC's go to the trouble and risk of assembling MOC's at home? Perhaps not. But the allegations aren't of a person with an average joe MO. They are of an individual who was recognized as being a gold standard dealer with an endless supply of "case fresh" MOC's. Even actors find themselves playing out the role in real life they were only meant to play on the screen.

 

[Caswellbot]

Let's not forget the quantities Jim. A lot of the figures he was buying corresponds to the list and he was buying multiples. One, two, three ebay account I could prob get my head around but 30??

 

[Grant_C]

All good points.

Also- a lot of Toni's ugrades came from trades for his MOCs.

 

[jay4]

I sold 500 odd Hoth troopers, your troopper may have come from me or jim stevenson as i bought them from Arthur Ballie and jim bought them from Toni so it could have come from any one of us or the peopel we sold them on to ?



good grief mr joiner :lol: EXACTLY what ive said all along and its all ive ever said you have finally got it thank god :wink: your in the loop of where they all stemmed from theres 4 people in that loop all of which you just named above INC YOU :x , i tell you what i will just assume that it could have only been one of the other 3 doing some ironing of all these hoth stormies and any others and theres no way it couldve been you if that makes you happy
and why the **** you would think hundreds of faked hoth stormies is irrelevant in circulaton i dont know , you need a reality check my man , ask anyone whos got one or upside down bubble if they think its irrelavant .i know what the answer will be
i told you why i was interested in hoth stormie as he is pretty much the only one i have left in doubt ,

 

[jimbody1]

intermission

 

[jimbody1]

Yeah agreed.

I can understand his scilenc.

But why buy all those mint figures under a second account?

i have three ebay accounts, ive bought loose figures on all of them over time, how many dealers on here have more than one account i know pete has, so has robbie, does this mean theyre doing something suspect? i dont think so. does toni sell in other places?, probably. so i asked myself is it worth buying u graded figures to break them out of their cases to put them on cards that have a chance of being found to be fake? the answer i came up with is no, is it worth buying figures ( looking at the screen shot ) cheap to sell them on again for more profit ( im sure this is what dealers have done for years ) yes. where is he selling them? i dont know. is it possible he has more than two ebay accounts? hell yeah!

I have two eBay accounts. At one time three, but decided to combine the buying/selling some 10 years ago. The matter at hand suggests something else, which is the immediate knee-jerk reaction to changing his profile to private once this revelation surfaced. An eBay account which has a record of "best condition" loose figure purchases. Does the average joe with no history of selling MOC's go to the trouble and risk of assembling MOC's at home? Perhaps not. But the allegations aren't of a person with an average joe MO. They are of an individual who was recognized as being a gold standard dealer with an endless supply of "case fresh" MOC's. Even actors find themselves playing out the role in real life they were only meant to play on the screen.

would you want everyone looking into your buisness dealings? would you be happy about that?

 

[jay4]

intermission

:shock: id f&ck that for a dollar

 

[ace]

I sold 500 odd Hoth troopers, your troopper may have come from me or jim stevenson as i bought them from Arthur Ballie and jim bought them from Toni so it could have come from any one of us or the peopel we sold them on to ?



good grief mr joiner :lol: EXACTLY what ive said and its all ive ever said you have finally got it :wink: your in the loop of where they all stemmed from theres 4 people in that loop all of which you just named above INC YOU :x , i tell you what i will just assume that it could have only been one of the other 3 doing some ironing of all these hoth stormies and theres no way it couldve been you if that makes you happy
and why the **** you would think hundreds of faked hoth stormies is irrelevant in circulaton i dont know , you need a reality check my man , ask anyone whos got one or upside down bubble if they think its irrelavant .i knwo what the answer will be

good grief jay are you slow ? really jay i mean it ?

i did not sell them to Jim i have only sold 12 back palitoys to jim before we stopped getting along that was 4 years before this happened.

they are out there they came from the same sores Arthur , you cannot see any of this stock anywere else in qwontertys other than from Toni there is a list of card backs they are the same and large amounts that toni is selling work it out everyone else that has looked into his has worked it out mate

i bought mine from Arthur they came to me like this i sold them on to others even telling them in some cases there was something wrong with them and sold them off cheep and i made money on them thats why i sold them , i can tell you one thing Jay i knwo which way a trooper should go up and i would not of put them upside down if i had anything to do with putting them on the cards mate , think about it , it was nearly imposable to sell them looking like that .

i do not own a single unused Palitoy ROTJ card back i never have and i would love to own one mate , i have 500,000 itmes in my collection and i do not own one of these , do you not think as a collector i would want to keep one of these or one Boba fett card back mint unused THINK ABOUT IT jay

i have never sold a unbubeled palitoy card back in my life

Toni has sold them to several collector , he said he did not then people came forward and told us they bough from him , that where this ends mate on Toni's door step but if you want to try to twist this into a story to increment me in some way go for it sorry its a bit sad but if it makes you happy ?

if you do not want to believe thats fine make up what you want in your fictional mind mate but you cannot make it into the truth you are just wasting everyones time

 

[ace]

This is my collection of 12 backs, do you knot think as a completest collector i would have wanted to keep one of each Hoth trooper and Boba feet minty mint card back for my self ? if i had the chance

 

[Grant_C]

There's that bloody palitoy VC Jawa that started all this! :lol:


Can I have it :wink:

 

[ace]

There's that bloody palitoy VC Jawa that started all this! :lol:


Can I have it :wink:

yea i know should i just rip it of the card and give the card back to Jason Mr pailitoy for his collection :-D

 

[ace]

you can have the lose figure mate so you can U grade it

i have lernt so much sins joining this place and its not all good U graded figures :-(

 

[finestcomics]

I have two eBay accounts. At one time three, but decided to combine the buying/selling some 10 years ago. The matter at hand suggests something else, which is the immediate knee-jerk reaction to changing his profile to private once this revelation surfaced. An eBay account which has a record of "best condition" loose figure purchases. Does the average joe with no history of selling MOC's go to the trouble and risk of assembling MOC's at home? Perhaps not. But the allegations aren't of a person with an average joe MO. They are of an individual who was recognized as being a gold standard dealer with an endless supply of "case fresh" MOC's. Even actors find themselves playing out the role in real life they were only meant to play on the screen.

would you want everyone looking into your buisness dealings? would you be happy about that?

I work my tail off to guarantee people I deal with are satisfied, whether it's a few buck or thousands. That's not just in recent times, but for well over 20 years. This isn't my full-time job. It's just a hobby, but I value my reputation and you're nothing without integrity.

Please don't lump me into the shenanigans being alleged against Toni, because there are a lot of unhappy people as a result of his activities, and if the consequences of this are that this makes him unhappy or that it seems we are "prying", then I say don't get caught doing the things he's doing that make it seem like there is truth to what is being alleged.

 

[Starzone]

I said I wasn't going to comment again but anyways

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-star-wars-figures-/151209592016?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item2334cb44d0


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-Luke-Skywalker-Bespin-Fatigues-MOC-AFA-85-/151211767105

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Star-Wars-moc-Han-Solo-Hoth-figure-AFA-90-German-45-back-90-90-85-/151176609851

All for sale from Brighton, the seller says not a collector....but then goes on to say he bought the German Han at San Diego........that has got to be the mintiest Fett bubble I have ever seen

 

[mr_palitoy]

There's that bloody palitoy VC Jawa that started all this! :lol:


Can I have it :wink:

yea i know should i just rip it of the card and give the card back to Jason Mr pailitoy for his collection :-D

Jason

 

[jimbody1]

I have two eBay accounts. At one time three, but decided to combine the buying/selling some 10 years ago. The matter at hand suggests something else, which is the immediate knee-jerk reaction to changing his profile to private once this revelation surfaced. An eBay account which has a record of "best condition" loose figure purchases. Does the average joe with no history of selling MOC's go to the trouble and risk of assembling MOC's at home? Perhaps not. But the allegations aren't of a person with an average joe MO. They are of an individual who was recognized as being a gold standard dealer with an endless supply of "case fresh" MOC's. Even actors find themselves playing out the role in real life they were only meant to play on the screen.

would you want everyone looking into your buisness dealings? would you be happy about that?

I work my tail off to guarantee people I deal with are satisfied, whether it's a few buck or thousands. That's not just in recent times, but for well over 20 years. This isn't my full-time job. It's just a hobby, but I value my reputation and you're nothing without integrity.

Please don't lump me into the shenanigans being alleged against Toni, because there are a lot of unhappy people as a result of his activities, and if the consequences of this are that this makes him unhappy or that it seems we are "prying", then I say don't get caught doing the things he's doing that make it seem like there is truth to what is being alleged.

I'm not lumping you into anything mate so please don't think I am but you didn't answer my question, nor come to think of it any of my others.

 

[Caswellbot]

You wouldnt necessarily mind people looking into your ebay accounts if there was nothing to hide Jim. I agree people have a couple of accounts. One for buying, one for selling, one for watching, one for....one for....one for....one for....one for....? You have to go a long way to get to thirty mate.

 

[lee gray]

Even with the non suspect cards, Toni has always undergraded his carded figures, many of his c8.5 are easily afa 90 condition and this must be because of his stash of unused cardbacks as most must have been in virtually in c9.5 condition and so he thinks that anything not as good compared as those have to be less than c9

 

[jay4]

I sold 500 odd Hoth troopers, your troopper may have come from me or jim stevenson as i bought them from Arthur Ballie and jim bought them from Toni so it could have come from any one of us or the peopel we sold them on to ?



:shock: you have said / written all that need be said in your statement above jason (any other suspect tts and other high value cards aside ) MY and other peoples hoth stormies COULD have came from you at grass root level before anyone else had them and I AGREE with what you said your RIGHT it could have come from you and thats my point and AGAIN its all ive ever said ,honestly man thats not hard to understand :? & i asked you before in an previous post if u wanted to reply to me in pm to do so and stop spamming this page up ,now please if you have anything else you want to say which you should not pm me , again END OF!
AND the irony in me being called slow from someone who IS actually slow in some way is too funny .classic

 

[finestcomics]

would you want everyone looking into your buisness dealings? would you be happy about that?

I work my tail off to guarantee people I deal with are satisfied, whether it's a few buck or thousands. That's not just in recent times, but for well over 20 years. This isn't my full-time job. It's just a hobby, but I value my reputation and you're nothing without integrity.

Please don't lump me into the shenanigans being alleged against Toni, because there are a lot of unhappy people as a result of his activities, and if the consequences of this are that this makes him unhappy or that it seems we are "prying", then I say don't get caught doing the things he's doing that make it seem like there is truth to what is being alleged.

I'm not lumping you into anything mate so please don't think I am but you didn't answer my question, nor come to think of it any of my others.

You can't be serious. Why would you ask someone if they'be be happy about being "looked into" if they don't deserve it.

Unless of course you believe Toni's deserves none of this.

 

[itfciain]

I said I wasn't going to comment again but anyways

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-star-wars-figures-/151209592016?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item2334cb44d0


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-Luke-Skywalker-Bespin-Fatigues-MOC-AFA-85-/151211767105

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Star-Wars-moc-Han-Solo-Hoth-figure-AFA-90-German-45-back-90-90-85-/151176609851

All for sale from Brighton, the seller says not a collector....but then goes on to say he bought the German Han at San Diego........that has got to be the mintiest Fett bubble I have ever seen

These are very interesting and what a co-incidence that the buyer (not a collector) bought UK released items over in San Diego at Comic-con last year

However before Christmas he was selling his GM Han Hoth which had been in storage for 20 years !!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Star-Wars-moc-Han-Solo-Hoth-figure-AFA-90-German-45-back-90-90-85-/151176609851

Yet, he isn't a collector !

 

[itfciain]

If you read all three descriptions then his source for such hi-ticket items differs each time

1. 20 years in storage
2. At Comic-con last year
3. Of a bloke on a bric a brac stool

All seems might suspicious to me - especially as the Boba has ended

 

[Lee77]

If you read all three descriptions then his source for such hi-ticket items differs each time

1. 20 years in storage
2. At Comic-con last year
3. Of a bloke on a bric a brac stool

All seems might suspicious to me - especially as the Boba has ended

Hi Iain

The Luke bespin was the exact same one I sold in October. Same serial number. So he's definitely up to something. He never bought it at comic con. They're his own pictures though.

 

[Grant_C]

Hi Lee

Hobbies lost the plot