Premier League 2020/2021 Thread

[theforceuk]

Their is no way any of this is OGS fault, he has done a great job with what he has and IMO got the most out of what he has. Against the top six last season we beat Chelsea, Leicester and Man City home and away, drew and lost with Liverpool and drew and beat Spurs, basically with only 11 decent players. He has asked for Sancho and 3 others, Van De Beek being one of those 3. Their is no way Man Utd will sign 3 players in the last 10 days of the transfer window and this is Man Utd we're talking about, a club with one of the biggest fan bases in the world and one of the biggest turn overs. You can't keep blaming the manager when the owners/Woodward are completely incompetent in the transfer market. Van Gaal and Jose have both come out and said every time they wanted a player they got the 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice player. We were in for Sancho last summer, who did we end up signing, Daniel James because he was cheap!

It took them 18 months to sign Bruno Fernández, because it saved them money, this summer we haven't signed Sancho or any other significant players and it's already cost us 3 points. Liverpool have made two great signings, Both players Klopp instructed the club to buy, Man Utd have signed Van De Beek, who plays in the same position as Pogba and Fernández, so I expect the gap to be bigger this year.

We're about to sign Tellez, decent left back, probably as good as Luke Shaw and will mean Williams won't have to play their any more, he's a right back. But it's not exactly a world beating signing is it!

Oh and we're still paying Phill Jones £4 million a year and Mata £8 million a year!

Sacking a manager every 2 years is the definition of insanity, when you expect a different outcome every time but get the same outcome as the last time.

 

[weasel]

I agree and I disagree. Utd's problems do start at the top with the owners. They in turn are happy with Ed cos he keeps the "official noodle" partners (ie money) coming. Ed is good at that. He is a lot less good at signing, and selling, players. But he is judged, by the owners, on whether the money is there to pay their fees. In that respect he does a good job.
OGS ONLY got that job because he "knew the club" or had been a great player for Utd. Plus he was/cud be available and was cheap. He would not even have been considered at any other top 6 club (Utd history aside). In fact, I'm not sure he would have been considered at any other competent PL club. The fact he got the job kinda sums up the mess Utd are. They could, and should, be able to attract some of the biggest names in the world. Not a bloke who was managing a mid table side in Norway. I'd take it and I have zero coaching experience.

Saying that, he has done well getting rid of some of the dead wood. By god there was, and still is, a tonne of it. Was that all his doing, or did Ed/the owners finally cotton on to it? We'll never know, but I'm happy to give him credit.
You may be right on the lack of ability to get 1st choice transfer targets, I don't know enough about Utd to confirm or deny. BUT, How many clubs gets their first choice target every time? Or even half of the time? They aren't gonna announce they signed X but only cos Y was too expensive/wanted too much in wages etc.
Secondly, a manager has to be able to work with what he has and improve them. Not just buy a new team. Well, all managers apart from Jose, but you all know my opinion of that tosser. I just don't see OGS having improved a single player.

Also, what exactly is Utd's style of play? That's his job. I can tell you pretty much how every big 6/7 side will play, or at least try to play. Ditto for the likes of Burnley, SU, even Norwich and Bournemouth last season. But Utd....ehhh!?

You are right that Utd had a decent record against the big sides last year. But even that highlights their problems. They did well in the big games, but come against a lesser side who sit in and play for a point and Utd were ****ed. They had no idea how to break it down. Insert your own funny about a dodgy penalty. Look at the games they lost last year. That lack of game plan is solely at OGS's door. Ed and the leeches can't take any blame for that. They may not have given him the best weapons to break it down, but that in no way excuses Utd's complete inability to cope with a side who sit in.

I'm still not sure that Fat Frank is doing much better at Chelsea. He inherited a better squad and has more money to spend, and the pull of London. But I still think the jury is out on him as a PL manager.
Arteta has started off quite well at Arsenal. You can see the style he wants to play and they do look a hell of a lot better under him than under Emery or the last few years of Wenger. It is still early days but he does seem to have them looking like a team. Of the three, I would say he has done the best, so far. I think he has had the shortest time in situ too.

 

[theforceuk]

I'd like to see how Pep Guardiola and Kopps careers would look now if they had managed FC Molde, a Cardiff team destined to be relegated and FC Molde again! Pep has managed a Barcelona team with Messi and half the best Spanish (if not international ream ever), Buyern Munich with an open cheque book and Man City with an even bigger open cheque book. AND OGS schooled him twice last season!

 

[weasel]

To an extent I agree about Pep. "Could he do it at a small club/on a budget?" Is a genuine question. You're right he has always had money and big name players. He has still improve most players and clubs he has been at though. But tiz a genuine question is it entirely him or does the money help. I would say it undoubtedly helps, BUT I don't think it's the sole/main reason. Look at the money Jose spent at Utd and he didn't really improve them. Look what he spent at Real and Barca were still better. But then Jose and his career is a complicated thing.

Klopp did ok at Mainz, his first job. He took them into the Bundesliga, kept them there for 3yrs, then took them back up after relegation. They definitely aren't a big or rich club. He did bloody well at Dortmund too. Albeit they are a bigger and richer club. There is only one team in Germany, and it's not Dortmund. So for me, getting them a couple of league titles and a CL final is a great achievement. Granted they aren't poor or small, in European terms, but they aren't a straight up 50:50 shot for a title like Barca/Real, or guaranteed a title like Bayern/Juve.

Taking a dispassionate view, or at least as dispassionate as it is possible to be with football, OGS has shown very little to make me think he could be a long term success at Utd. Tactically he looks limited and I don't see much improvement in players under him. His victories in big games have come when his teams have been penned in their own half and have hit the other side on the break. That's not entirely by design, a lot of the time his sides simply couldn't get out. Not taking anything away from it, a win is a win, but I'm not sure it's entirely down to great tactics by him. Plus he manages Man U, they shouldn't be playing deep and hitting on the counter like a mid table PL side, they should be going shoulder to shoulder with the other big sides.
Fat Frank is marginally better, but he did inherit a better squad. Even at that, his team took some big beatings last season and do look out of their depth against the biggest teams.
I would say 4th this year will be enough to keep,OGS in his job, Frank will need more. A trophy or to be only single figure points off the title. That transfer spend is a huge weight on his shoulders. He has half a new team and needs to integrate them and make progress or he will be gone.
Arteta looks the best of the three, so far. He could probably survive with a 5th or 6th place finish and some tangible on pitch progress. They were an utter shambles when he took over and he is the newest in the job, so he gets a little more time. Plus Kronke is basically a Glazier.
As for Pep and Klopp, finish outside the top 2 and the season will be a big disappointment. Maybe a CL and 3rd/4th would do. But I don't see either getting the boot unless there is a real regression.

 

[weasel]

Utd got lucky there.
Brighton were the better side by so much it wasn't even funny.
That Utd pen In stoppage time was fair enough, why yer man leads with his arm I will never know. Idiot.
But on the balance of 90mins, if Brighton had won by 2 goals Utd couldn't have had many complaints. FFS Brighton hit the post FOUR times, and the bar.
Granted Utd had 2 disallowed for offside, but both were clearly offside.

The Brighton pen that VAR over turned was a strange one. Yes the Brighton player does manufacture the contact but how often do we see a forward sprint in to the box only to suddenly stop leaving the defender no time to react and avoid running in to the back of him, and a penalty is given!? It's the same as the Brighton pen, yet VAR over turns it!?
That's not a dig at Utd, more just me asking when they decided to stop giving manufactured penalties and more importantly would they have over turned it if Fernandez, Kane or Salah had been the one falling over? I'd bet my house on the fact they wouldn't. Harsh on Brighton. They deserved three points there.

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah how Utd won that game I will never know, but I will take it and enjoy it! It's what football is all about. God we need another central defender, Wan-Bissaka did a great impression of the invisible!

Theirs not a manager in the world that could make that squad finish better than third!

 

[edd_jedi]

That Utd pen In stoppage time was fair enough, why yer man leads with his arm I will never know. Idiot.

Fair enough, but after the referee had already blown the final whistle in the 100th minute!? I don't even recall Fergie getting that lucky :lol: I think Brighton and West Brom were robbed this weekend, the cracks are starting to show for the rookie managers.

 

[weasel]

I THINK the rules say it is ok as VAR were looking at it once it happened, but like with a good few VAR things the game continues while they do, and the ref blew for FT.


You watch though, some of the Utd fans will still bleat on about LiVARpool and how it always favours Pool. :roll: It's almost as if some of them are struggling to accept times have changed and Utd are no longer the best side. Clutching at straws it is.

 

[lejackal]

I mean I think tomorrow night will be tough but should Arsenal win is it still beginners luck [mention]edd_jedi[/mention] :?: :lol:

 

[edd_jedi]

Well I think most people would agree there's a fair chunk of luck involved if the team that finished 8th with a novice manager beats the team that finished first with a manager that has won domestic cups in multiple countries and the Champions League :lol: granted the last two matches between the two have been friendlies as far as Liverpool were concerned, so I expect they will take it a fair bit more seriously tomorrow. But stranger things have happened!

 

[edd_jedi]

And speaking of luck, Newcastle have just drawn 1-1 with no shots on target :lol:

 

[weasel]

I've seen one view of tha penalty on Twitter. It looks soft, like the Everton one at Palace yesterday. Both reminded me of the Utd one against PSG. Yes, the ball hits his arm/hand and it isn't inline with his body, but is that really worthy of a pen? That seems to be the new rule, which is stupid, but in that case both are pens. End of. The rule is still daft.

If I was Jose I would be asking Dier why he swings his arm round like that though. It does look a bit weird. Not saying it looks like he tried to hand ball it, but it does look....different, from how players normally jump. You don't see many swing an arm behind them like that. I reckon that's what the VAR gimp will have seen and interpreted as him trying to block it with his hand.


We are gonna see a lot of strikers just twatting it at defenders arms for the rest of the season if this continues.

Good result for City! Wolves losing too.
City beaten, Spurs and Chelsea draw, Utd are abysmal (and fluke a win), Pool and or Arsenal drop points tomorrow night, and Wolves losing. Not often so many of the big sides drop points on the same weekend.

 

[theforceuk]

Defenderbers will be better off with their arms tied behind their backs at this rate.

VAR has ruined/destroyed football as we new it.

 

[edd_jedi]

I just don't understand why they didn't keep the 'deliberate' part of the rule. It's not rocket science to tell the difference is it?

 

[Cazza]

The inconsistency with these handballs is crazy. We should've got a pen against Arsenal the other week, especially after seeing these ones given this weekend. Nonsense!

 

[lejackal]

We should've got a pen against Arsenal the other week, especially after seeing these ones given this weekend. Nonsense!

Nah, hit his sleeve mate :wink: :lol:

 

[weasel]

Hard to know what to make of last night's game. Pool were the better side and probably deserved to win. But Arsenal had chances and kept the game interesting right up until the end. They definitely look a hundred times better under Arteta than under Emery or the last few years of Wenger. Though I much preferred watching Pool play Emery's Arsenal lol.
Early days, but Arteta has definitely improved that team/club. They have a game plan and they execute it well. The fact he can make THAT defence look solid is testament to the job he is doing.
Over all though the game was a bit, meh. For a neutral, probably not a classic.

Fulham look ****ed.

 

[weasel]

City get a nice cushy CL draw. Not often they get an easy cup draw :roll:

Utd could be in trouble in that group. Is it too early to make them favourites for the EL? Lol. What's worse, they have PSG, so I will be forced to cheer for Utd TWICE this season. I feel dirty. The last time, before Utd's win/robbery in Paris, was the '92 CWC final. I was hoping it would be another (near) 30yrs before I had to lower myself to those levels again.

A few of the CL groups look like they could be remotely close this year. Not A (Bayern&Atleti) and G (Juve&Barca) tho. Group B could finish in any order, Real are turd. Group C is a case of who finishes behind City. Group D is 2 from 3, though you would fancy Pool to be one of them. Group E should be straight forward enough. Group F is probably Dortmund and ehh Zenith, just.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54377277

 

[theforceuk]

That draw is a stitch up, bloody Chelsea players doing the draw as well! Man City couldn't get PSG because of it clashing with other fixtures or some bollucks along those lines, WTF?!

I'm 90% sure we are still getting Sancho, but we need more I reckon just to get in the Europa League spot!

 

[weasel]

I'm 99.9% sure you AREN'T getting Sancho. Literally no benefit to Dortmund for selling him now, unless they get a fair whack over the asking price of 108m