Got you Jason thanks for clearing that up, god knows why but I assumed the 12's to be rarer as they came first although from a totally Kenner point of view I find the ESB vader on any card (while its not in any way shape or form rare) to be much harder to find than the 12 back I have been looking for one for the past year and only a few have come up for sale all at times when I'm totally skint but in the same time period there must have been 20-30 12 backs, never worked out why.... could just be Sod's law in action as I want one 