Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[lee gray]

Yes sure.

 

[ace]

i wasnt going to reply jason but i thought i should explain,
1stly i didnt call you a liar or crooked i would never clearly pipe up & say that publicly about anyone without hard evidence , EVER! :wink: which is why i IMPLIED it may have been the case in that instant and i can assure you im not the only one who has thought it .:wink: and as i also said i can and will only judge people on the past reputation they have given themselfs and from what i have heard and read written by others here and elsewhere sadly your reputation more than precedes you and not in too a good way so im sorry if your offended about any doubt as to ironed hoth troopers etc i may have but it stems from the bed you made yourself , i do apologise if im wrong but im sure you understand why people could and would have the right to doubt you

yes you did "IMPLIED it" maybe you should grow a spine and just say what you mean rather than imply it and then we are both on a even field and i would have some come back ok your statement.

jay4 how can it be "from a bed i made my self" when i have done nothing ?

just because one or two jealous people said things without any real truth behind it many years ago is its ok to keep on spouting this rubbish without any proof what so ever for years to come ?

jay4 i can defend my self if you give me facts, so go and get some real facts and put them to me and when you cannot fined an thing do the right and decent thing and stop perpetuating a wrong that had been done to me for the past 10 years

i am far from what you think i am jay4 and you do not know me at all.

maybe you should be less closed minded and see there is two sides to everything in life ?

jason

 

[jay4]

i wasnt going to reply jason but i thought i should explain,
1stly i didnt call you a liar or crooked i would never clearly pipe up & say that publicly about anyone without hard evidence , EVER! :wink: which is why i IMPLIED it may have been the case in that instant and i can assure you im not the only one who has thought it .:wink: and as i also said i can and will only judge people on the past reputation they have given themselfs and from what i have heard and read written by others here and elsewhere sadly your reputation more than precedes you and not in too a good way so im sorry if your offended about any doubt as to ironed hoth troopers etc i may have but it stems from the bed you made yourself , i do apologise if im wrong but im sure you understand why people could and would have the right to doubt you

yes you did "IMPLIED it" maybe you should grow a spine and just say what you mean rather than imply it and then we are both on a even field and i would have some come back ok your statement.

jay4 how can it be "from a bed i made my self" when i have done nothing ?

just because one or two jealous people said things without any real truth behind it many years ago is its ok to keep on spouting this rubbish without any proof what so ever for years to come ?

jay4 i can defend my self if you give me facts, so go and get some real facts and put them to me and when you cannot fined an thing do the right and decent thing and stop perpetuating a wrong that had been done to me for the past 10 years

i am far from what you think i am jay4 and you do not know me at all.

maybe you should be less closed minded and see there is two sides to everything in life ?

jason

your right i dont know you or anything about you really jason but one thing i learnt long ago is theres no smoke without fire and theres a lot of smoke around your name :| an awful lot of people seem to doubt your word on anything that much is evident to me as a newbie simply by trawling through reading peoples posts within this very thread alone never mind elsewhere on the net, im not totally sure why but it just seems odd to me that so many people would not trust or dislike you for absolutely nothing as your saying it is and for over 10 years aswel surely that cant just stem from 1 or 2 people being jealous of you as you state, if it is by christ these 2 jealous people done wanders turning hordes of people against you as it seems to be very widespread :?: i do realise that sometimes the masses could be wrong and there are 2 sides to every story tho and people can be wrongly judged so i keep an open mind hence i qouted "the jurys out on this ie you with me" and i implied you may have been involved in very early ironing bubbles but i DIDNT factually say you were but it was plausable ! you could be a great bloke and probably are but sadly thats not the way your potrayed and i like most people trust no one who is painted with a bad rep which has lasted so long no matter how that came about allthough im not sure how yours actually came about :wink: this combined by the greatest numbers seen in ironed bubbles seen in circulation today are hoth stormies and you had 500 of these i think in the very early 90s i read here during a period where you were involved in some way with both of the now accused arthur bailley and toni ,so for me or anyone to think you may have been involved wrightly or wrongly more so with hoth stormies isnt beyond belief for people to think especially in the current climate when everyones paranoid and doubting moc left right and centre
and i can assure you one thing i dont lack in is spine :twisted: ive plenty of that
anyway thats enough of this crap with me and you spamming thethread .back to the real matter here

 

[itfciain]

I have to admit that I am struggling to see what JJ is being accused of here.

TT sold these items directly or indirectly to pretty much everyone affected - the only cases of JJ selling these is way back when. TT is the one we need to be focusing on here - and if there was any involvement from JJ then surely TT or someone would 'out' JJ

 

[Grant_C]

Would appreciate someone looking at those pics I posted yesterday and tell me what I suppose to be looking for.

The seals are the same as the non-toytoni ones and don't have that adisive look.

Most are from 15 years ago.

Does anyone have a TFP 45a? and can post pictures?

In other words- back on topic! :|

 

[Alas-1]

Put this **** to bed TONI and give us the info everyone NEEDS!
You can end all this right now and save the hobby you've been a part of for decades... Whether you like SW or not.

It's THAT simple



PS no one answered on where he got all those Meccano Jawas from? lol

 

[mr_palitoy]

Put this **** to bed TONI and give us the info everyone NEEDS!
You can end all this right now and save the hobby you've been a part of for decades... Whether you like SW or not.

It's THAT simple



PS no one answered on where he got all those Meccano Jawas from? lol

There have been factory cases of meccano jawas kicking about from multiple sources for years, so no problem with them.

cheers Jason

 

[wbobafett]

My last attemp to contribute sth here I guess :lol:

I have notice on all these MOC pictures shown that all original cardbacks have two signs from the heat sealing process and machine:

Check out more cardbacks here:
http://s487.photobucket.com/user/mike-skywalker/library/German%20ESB%20Cardbacks?sort=9&page=1

The question would be now:

CAN ONE OR BOTH OF THESE SIGNS BE SEEN ON SEALED ORIGINALS???

I think I have seen them on some of Fernandos but its hard not having them in hands I guess!

Maybe the white inne line is the key!??!?! On original seals it looks like a imprint from the heat sealing machine/form. Between the line and the seal there is often some space..like lifting a bit...
This white line can be maybe seen on MOCs???

Anyone??

Just an idea though.....

Wolff

 

[Grant_C]

Mr Palitoy- your the cardbacks man- what do you think?

 

[geoffbroccoli]

Yes, the white line/colour lifting inside the bubble edge is evident on 3 of my childhood original sealed palitoys, and not on my later purchase suspect ones...

 

[wbobafett]

Yes, the white line/colour lifting inside the bubble edge is evident on 3 of my childhood original sealed palitoys, and not on my later purchase suspect ones...

AHAR...it can be seen!! That is good news I guess??

 

[mr_palitoy]

Would appreciate someone looking at those pics I posted yesterday and tell me what I suppose to be looking for.

The seals are the same as the non-toytoni ones and don't have that adisive look.

Most are from 15 years ago.

Does anyone have a TFP 45a? and can post pictures?

In other words- back on topic! :|

r5d4 - not on list - not traced to toni - too beat up to be a toni - OK
stormtrooper - not on list - bought from toni in 96 - could be toni's is missing moc stock - bubble over edge of card to messy for a hand made job - OK
boba fett - on list - bought from toni in 96 - could be toni's is missing moc stock - SUSPECT
luke bespin - on list - bought from toni in 96 - could be toni's is missing moc stock - SUSPECT
tie pilot - on list - bought from toni in 96 - could be toni's is missing moc stock - gun placement odd for a hand made job or factory effort - SUSPECT
leia hoth - not on list - not traced to toni - shop sticker - OK
at at commander - on list - not traced to toni - not using the wide style bubble we see from toni - OK

This is my judgement on your cards based on current knowledge.
Basically if it came from toni and is on the list of unused cardbacks then it's suspect.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Mr Palitoy- your the cardbacks man- what do you think?

We've seen different types of factory seal from factory sealed cards, don't think this is a master key to spotting a Toni.

Jason

 

[Grant_C]

Jason- can you do a seal comparison of a 45 and a Toni 45b?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Jason- can you do a seal comparison of a 45 and a Toni 45b?

Can you be more specific?

cheers Jason

 

[Grant_C]

a Palitoy normal 45a to a toni 45b?

 

[jedisearcher]

Yes, the white line/colour lifting inside the bubble edge is evident on 3 of my childhood original sealed palitoys, and not on my later purchase suspect ones...

AHAR...it can be seen!! That is good news I guess??

Hey Wolff, I've got a 65D Vader that looks like it has the markings your talking about. It's a legit shop item.

I've also got some 65A and B's but I can't make out markings on any of those. I know 3 are legit shop items (they all have the waffle seal). The other 4 are probably TT's, none have any waffle seal - they are all on Jason's matrix - Squid Head, Lando Skiff, GG and Biker Scout.

So I can only confirm 65D's.

 

[jambobbyb]

Grant have you checked the seal on the bottom of your twin stems? Check all
Of them including the ones that are not suspect and see how many and which ones are sealed between the stem, if you can't tell slide a bit of paper between the bubble and cardback.
Cheers
James

 

[Grant_C]

Thanks mate- I will do.

 

[ace]

i wasnt going to reply jason but i thought i should explain,
1stly i didnt call you a liar or crooked i would never clearly pipe up & say that publicly about anyone without hard evidence , EVER! :wink: which is why i IMPLIED it may have been the case in that instant and i can assure you im not the only one who has thought it .:wink: and as i also said i can and will only judge people on the past reputation they have given themselfs and from what i have heard and read written by others here and elsewhere sadly your reputation more than precedes you and not in too a good way so im sorry if your offended about any doubt as to ironed hoth troopers etc i may have but it stems from the bed you made yourself , i do apologise if im wrong but im sure you understand why people could and would have the right to doubt you

yes you did "IMPLIED it" maybe you should grow a spine and just say what you mean rather than imply it and then we are both on a even field and i would have some come back ok your statement.

jay4 how can it be "from a bed i made my self" when i have done nothing ?

just because one or two jealous people said things without any real truth behind it many years ago is its ok to keep on spouting this rubbish without any proof what so ever for years to come ?

jay4 i can defend my self if you give me facts, so go and get some real facts and put them to me and when you cannot fined an thing do the right and decent thing and stop perpetuating a wrong that had been done to me for the past 10 years

i am far from what you think i am jay4 and you do not know me at all.

maybe you should be less closed minded and see there is two sides to everything in life ?

jason

your right i dont know you or anything about you really jason but one thing i learnt long ago is theres no smoke without fire and theres a lot of smoke around your name :| an awful lot of people seem to doubt your word on anything that much is evident to me as a newbie simply by trawling through reading peoples posts within this very thread alone never mind elsewhere on the net, im not totally sure why but it just seems odd to me that so many people would not trust or dislike you for absolutely nothing as your saying it is and for over 10 years aswel surely that cant just stem from 1 or 2 people being jealous of you as you state, if it is by christ these 2 jealous people done wanders turning hordes of people against you as it seems to be very widespread :?: i do realise that sometimes the masses could be wrong and there are 2 sides to every story tho and people can be wrongly judged so i keep an open mind hence i qouted "the jurys out on this ie you with me" and i implied you may have been involved in very early ironing bubbles but i DIDNT factually say you were but it was plausable ! you could be a great bloke and probably are but sadly thats not the way your potrayed and i like most people trust no one who is painted with a bad rep which has lasted so long no matter how that came about allthough im not sure how yours actually came about :wink: this combined by the greatest numbers seen in ironed bubbles seen in circulation today are hoth stormies and you had 500 of these i think in the very early 90s i read here during a period where you were involved in some way with both of the now accused arthur bailley and toni ,so for me or anyone to think you may have been involved wrightly or wrongly more so with hoth stormies isnt beyond belief for people to think especially in the current climate when everyones paranoid and doubting moc left right and centre
and i can assure you one thing i dont lack in is spine :twisted: ive plenty of that
anyway thats enough of this crap with me and you spamming thethread .back to the real matter here

one thing we can agree on is this tread is important and thats why i have bothered to deal with all this thrash about me and my past , i have better things to do that defend myself agent people that do not know the truth and do not even know me but i say on her to see it to the end .

so how about this rather than coming out with random i think someone said comment you stick to he facts , thats what we have been doing on here all the time getting the facts and proving the facts .

hearsay and sorties from people with no names and no facts is just trash and dose not help anyone get to the bottom of this so ether call me out with facts on something and let me face my accuser or just give it a rest and lets get on with dealing with a real crime is that simple

jason

 

[jay4]

one thing we can agree on is this tread is important and thats why i have bothered to deal with all this thrash about me and my past , i have better things to do that defend myself agent people that do not know the truth and do not even know me but i say on her to see it to the end .

so how about this rather than coming out with random i think someone said comment you stick to he facts , thats what we have been doing on here all the time getting the facts and proving the facts .

hearsay and sorties from people with no names and no facts is just trash and dose not help anyone get to the bottom of this so ether call me out with facts on something and let me face my accuser or just give it a rest and lets get on with dealing with a real crime is that simple

jason[/quote]

its very simple! the whole point of this thread is to air or potray ANY reasonable suspicion anyone may have about anything in regards to faked cards that they may have ! NO? :wink: and seeing as im now left thinking near all of my TT moc are legit (i think) :| & the only deffo suspect one im left with is an ironed hoth stormie i loved ive turned my attention to working out where he and the many exactly like him with upside down bubbles came from and ive since found out from the person i bought him from many years ago who bought it in the very early 90s himself in england says it was wasnt from TT which could mean it stemmed from you seeing as you had 500 hoth stormies during a very doubtful period as per written in this thread did you not ??? , it might not mean this iron job does stem from you but these are the only facts i have right or wrong but i will know eventually as the blokes sivving thru any records he thinks he has on the who and where , and just too add any of this does not detract from anything TT has done and the possibility of his large scale fraud here that you seem concerned to tell me ,my concern right now is what i have and where that came from & sadly & unavoidably your in that loop , if your so kean to face an accuser and dispell any rumours and stick to facts why dont you ellaborate to me personally about these 500 hoths stormies you had as im obviously unclear as to exactly when you had them and what you done with them all , you can pm if you wish with an detailed answer if you feel you want too keep this thread to the real crime as you put it with only tonis dealings highlighted

 

[Grant]

Guys is it safe to say now that *only* the carded figures with iron marks are the *real* suspect ones now. Iv tried to follow this thread by its chaotic with this bubble and that bubble etc. Not trying to sound harsh but it doesn't sound like were any further along than we were on page 100. Lots of scepticism that I think is always going to shroud these items now with the only real tells being iron marks on the cards. I think the rest you will just never know unless you get a full confession from Toni one way or the other which is never going to happen. Again not trying to sound harsh at all. I have empathy for everyone involved in this fiasco but it just seems to be going round and round in circles without any clear direction.

It isn't even clear that Toni *did* the ironing or is it. It may have been Arthur or someone else. I just don't think it will ever be able to be proved. I'm on the fence as much as anyone else here but one can only look at the facts. I don't think you will ever get a confession from anyone about the ironing etc. This could be debated for ever without a clear ending. Just my 2 pence worth Fella's.

Best Regards,

Grant.

 

[Grant_C]

Interesting stuff.

Here is a picture of single stem with '0' mark:

Notice the hazy waffle look on the seal.

and compare to the one I posted a few days ago:

 

[Grant_C]

Grant have you checked the seal on the bottom of your twin stems? Check all
Of them including the ones that are not suspect and see how many and which ones are sealed between the stem, if you can't tell slide a bit of paper between the bubble and cardback.
Cheers
James

James,

All are sealed between the twin stems.

 

[jimbody1]

heres a shop bought palitoy 45 b twin stem for you.

 

[jimbody1]

its sealed all the way around and has no numbers embossed around the edge. you cant really see it but it has a slight waffling to the seal too. also like the single stem the bubble is just off centre to the number on the bottom of the card.

 

[Grant_C]

Thanks for that.

Hard to see but seal looks the same as the other double stem.

The single stem looks suspect to me.

Does anyone have a list that Toytoni was buying in his second ebay account?

 

[jimbody1]

Thanks for that.

Hard to see but seal looks the same as the other double stem.

The single stem looks suspect to me.

Does anyone have a list that Toytoni was buying in his second ebay account?

to me the seals look the same lol! also yours looks like it has a slight lifting down the right hand side ( although that may just be the picture). tbh this one looks like the same as all the other double stem toni seals but this one is shop bought.

 

[Grant_C]

Guys is it safe to say now that *only* the carded figures with iron marks are the *real* suspect ones now. Iv tried to follow this thread by its chaotic with this bubble and that bubble etc. Not trying to sound harsh but it doesn't sound like were any further along than we were on page 100. Lots of scepticism that I think is always going to shroud these items now with the only real tells being iron marks on the cards. I think the rest you will just never know unless you get a full confession from Toni one way or the other which is never going to happen. Again not trying to sound harsh at all. I have empathy for everyone involved in this fiasco but it just seems to be going round and round in circles without any clear direction.

It isn't even clear that Toni *did* the ironing or is it. It may have been Arthur or someone else. I just don't think it will ever be able to be proved. I'm on the fence as much as anyone else here but one can only look at the facts. I don't think you will ever get a confession from anyone about the ironing etc. This could be debated for ever without a clear ending. Just my 2 pence worth Fella's.

Best Regards,

Grant.

I understand that Grant,

But:

[youtube]NVNU5jkOwzU[/youtube]

 

[Grant]

Guys is it safe to say now that *only* the carded figures with iron marks are the *real* suspect ones now. Iv tried to follow this thread by its chaotic with this bubble and that bubble etc. Not trying to sound harsh but it doesn't sound like were any further along than we were on page 100. Lots of scepticism that I think is always going to shroud these items now with the only real tells being iron marks on the cards. I think the rest you will just never know unless you get a full confession from Toni one way or the other which is never going to happen. Again not trying to sound harsh at all. I have empathy for everyone involved in this fiasco but it just seems to be going round and round in circles without any clear direction.

It isn't even clear that Toni *did* the ironing or is it. It may have been Arthur or someone else. I just don't think it will ever be able to be proved. I'm on the fence as much as anyone else here but one can only look at the facts. I don't think you will ever get a confession from anyone about the ironing etc. This could be debated for ever without a clear ending. Just my 2 pence worth Fella's.

Best Regards,

Grant.

I understand that Grant,

But:

[youtube]NVNU5jkOwzU[/youtube]

Lol good answer. Back to the drawing board then.