Premier League 23/24 Thread

[theforceuk]

Would be bonkers to sack him, unless Klopp or Pep got a bang on the head and suddenly decided to manage Man Utd.

 

[edd_jedi]

I bet most Chelsea fans wanted Poch sacked ten days ago, it's amazing what a difference a couple of results can make. It seems pointless giving any manager less than 2-3 seasons, but we see it so often

 

[theforceuk]

I agree, the problem is with football managers when they lose the dressing room. Player power always seems to pro vale these days. There's players in the Man Utd squad that have got 2 or 3 managers sacked.

 

[weasel]

Agreed. But, it's easier and cheaper to sack one manager than sell 2-15 players. Especially as the second you transfer list the feckers their value halves.

Some managerial appointments do just look wrong from the off. Moyesy at Utd would be an obvious one. Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney or Steven Gerrard at ehhh pretty much any club.

 

[edd_jedi]

Yes, I really don't understand why you can sack a manager but not a player, it might motivate some of the parasites if they knew it was a possibility

 

[weasel]

All that would end up happening is they walk into another club on a broadly comparable salary, sadly.

 

[lejackal]

All that would end up happening is they walk into another club on a broadly comparable salary, sadly.

With a sign on bonus as a free transfer

 

[weasel]

Everton hit with a 10pt deduction.
From my limited understanding of it, they were miles over the allowed limit for losses so they cant have any complaints about being punished. They can complain about the severity of the punishment but not the fact they were punished.
Looks like the three sides who went down last year along with Burnley and SU have announced they are suing Everton for 300m too.

They get a 10pt deduction for ONE breach. City have 115 charges against them. If they are found guilty on all of them there is no way City can continue as a professional club. They'll be knocked so far down the pyramid that they'll never come back. Not in our life times anyway. Obviously Pep quits too cos he has been promised they are innocent….like they would tell him they have cheated….and he trusts them. The big names will all want out too.
But does anyone think the FA/PL will have the balls to find City guilty?
At best they get a token three or four guilty verdicts, on the minor charges, and get a huge slap on the wrist fine of 50m.
If they are found guilty how many clubs will sue them for lost earnings as result of their cheating? PL AND European clubs I would assume. Also can Brendan Rodgers and Ole sue them for lost earnings as a result of their teams not winning the PL cos a City side who have been proven to have cheated, beat them and they lost their jobs a few months later? A huge can of worms.

 

[Cazza]

Yeah, this has really opened the can if worms. Sounds like Everton got what they deserve, they are VERY lucky it's happened this season though, having such poor teams at the bottom. Would've been relegated the last couple of seasons. They could be stuffed though, if they get sued successfully.

Chelsea and Man City must be dealt with in an appropriate, equivalent manner, but can anyone really see that happening? Look what happened with the Euro Super League stuff, where the Sky 6 and their continental counterparts tried to tear the game apart. What was their punishment? Can't remember, but wasn't it something like £20k? The powers that be said any points deductions would hurt the fans... the most ridiculous argument ever. What about fans of Everton, Middlesborough, Reading, Saints etc? Didn't stop those deductions. It's not rocket science to see the game is bent. Time will tell- let's hope they throw the book at them both.

 

[weasel]

Agreed. I would have had no issue with the big 6 being punished for that BS idea. Albeit I suspect it was the big wigs at the top who came up with idea and not the managers/players. But I guess the same can be said for Everton/City/Chelsea. Did the managers know that signing so many players would result in them cooking the books, or did they know dodgy payments were being made?

If the scale of what City in particular, but also Chelsea, have done is accurate then both clubs should be thrown out of the league and stripped of any trophy they won. As the fan of a club who finished second to those sides I don't even care about being awarded them, personally, I would just leave the trophies as un-awarded so the history books remind everyone about what cheats those clubs were. It wont happen though. Both clubs will sue if found guilty and the FA/PL know it will cost them hundreds of millions in legal fees plus they have no balls.

Saying that, whitewashing the whole thing will damage the image of the PL as well.

Either way it's going to be interesting. I just wish they would fecking hurry up. The longer it takes the more City win and they are either tainting competitions even more, or not getting the respect they deserve as a result of the delays investigating the charges.

 

[weasel]

Another flukey last minute winner from Arsenal I saw chunks of the game but missed the goal. It looked fairly even. Brentford are a hard side to play against at their place. The 'new Stoke' if you like. So a win in any form is a good result there. I've no idea if it was deserved or not, I did see Rice and Zinchenko clear off Arsenal's line and also called the disallowed Arsenal goal as offside in real time. Regardless, a banana skin avoid by Arsenal.

I also saw chunks of Newcastle Chelsea which looked quite good and quite even up until Chlesea shipped 2 in a minute and the Rece James got sent off. The former killed Chelsea's momentum and ended the game, the latter was the nail, in the coffin. Chelsea arena hatd side to figure out, run City close one week and get thrashed by an injury hit Newcastle the next. I guess that's what happens when you are a work in progress. Needless to say the solution is another 4 players at 50m each in the Jan window.

On the subject of City, that was yet another pish early kick off. I've seen tonnes of them, some bod at the PL keeps giving them to Liverpool especially after the Int break (the stats are ridiculous), and almost all of them are poor games. No one ever seems to 'click'. It's as if the fans and the players aren't quite up for it. The game itself was quite even, there weren't many clear cut chances. It was a bit cagey. Got to be honest and say I would have given City's first disallowed goal. There was contact on Alison but contact doesn't mean it's a foul and he (Alison) needs to do better. He needs to man up. The second disallowed goal was never gonna stand, Akanji pushed Alison in to the nets. So, City can feel a bit hard done by by VAR, but given the regularity with which VAR bends over to help City out (the Fulham non offside when Ake is stood in front of the keeper or yer ex Chelsea boy avoiding a couple of red cards, etc etc.)
I still don't see anyone stopping City, but it keeps it interesting for a few weeks, and it's proof that this Pool team aren't the shambles they were last year.

 

[lejackal]

Two goal line clearances are lucky for sure, last minute goals are just a sign of not giving up

Whilst the offside goal is technically correct what advantage is there? All three were onside from the initial pass, once you're through legally it shouldn't matter that there's not a defender there imo, as you've already beaten them.

 

[theforceuk]

Most VAR offsides are ridiculous, they need to change the rule to clear daylight.

Liverpool were lucky to get away with a point. That said I'm not sure drawing to Man City is unlucky. I would say unfair with how much advantage they have through cheating.

Everton will have an us against the world attitude today for sure. Can see a good smacking for Man Utd today, haven't had one for well over a month.

 

[Cazza]

Thought Arsenal were a bit lucky, but those are the sort of games you need to win, if you're going to challenge. Interesting seeing how they've tightened up a smidge defensively this season- exactly what they needed to do, in order to progress.

That first disallowed goal for Man C was ridiculous! Words fail me...

We got away with one yesterday. Very poor for most of the game, but the quality came through in the end. They all looked like they had an international hangover. Missed Bowen, but Mubama looked lively and should be starting over Ings now. Harsh on Burnley- a draw would probably have been a fair result. Similar to Arsenal though, you need to get results out of those sorts of games, if you want to be up there. We would've lost that 3 years ago.

 

[weasel]

Yeah, not sure where I stand on the Arsenal disallowed goal. Technically it was offside, and I saw it in real time, but I take your point. It's one of those grey areas.Frustrating whne it goes agaunst you and a let off if it goes for you.

I haven't seen any of the WH game but two late goals is always nice, albeit it's probably a tad concerning that you need them against Burnley. But 3pts is 3pts.

Everton Utd will be interesting today. Either Utd wilt in the atmosphere or Everton get carried away and end up 9 men and a hiding. I would say the first goal will be crucial to setting the tone.

Spuds Villa could be interesting too, albeit Villa haven't turned up against the "big" sides so far. If they do, injury hit Spurs could have a game on their hands.

Edited for a typo…who the **** are "Cilla"?

 

[edd_jedi]

As you know I'm not one to moan or feel hard done by, obviously, but the last 3 goals Spurs have conceded have been in "injury time." That one was in the 7th of 6 minutes after the first half. Would that goal have happened in any of the last 31 PL seasons? You wouldn't get 7 minutes of added time after 90, let alone after 45.

Nice of Matty Cash to get away with that leg breaker on Bentancur too. Obviously would have been a straight red if it was a Spurs player (or against Chelsea.)

So that makes it 8 first 11 injured, are we still just lacking squad depth!?

 

[weasel]

I saw chunks of the Spuds Villa game. Spurs looked very much a side running on empty. By the hour mark they were crying out for fresh legs but there was nothing on the bench. They were probably the better side up until then, but Ange's high tempo game takes its toll and when you have a lot of injuries and a small squad/FA quality beyond the first 14/15/16 players, then you have a problem. Villa are a decent side though. It's not like you lost to Luton.


Oohhh and ehhh @edd_jedi remind me when Spurs scored their winner against Pool

There was 8 minutes of ET in the second half of City Pool yesterday, even Pep was asking why it was 8 minutes (and not cos he thought it should be more).

 

[edd_jedi]

It's a bit like VAR - why can't they just apply with common sense? Yes, add 15 minutes of injury time when Newcastle fall over every 30 seconds to hold on to their 1-0 lead. But don't punish a team that is already stretched and running on empty. Wasn't the whole 5 substitues thing about player welfare? How is making 9 men play 120 minutes of football at PL tempo anything but dangerous. Anything more than a couple of minutes should be exclusively for time wasting, otherwise it's just turned into basketball.

 

[edd_jedi]

Wow, Garnacho's goal for United today goal of the season / decade right there!

 

[Cazza]

Just saw it- fantastic. Very similar to Rooney's, although this one is probably cleaner, as Rooney's was a bit of a shinner, if I remember correctly?

 

[weasel]

It was a great goal, a total fluke, but a great goal.
Definitely better than Rooney's (he did shin it) although not a patch on Trevor Sinclair's in the FAC all those years ago.

Emre Can scored a belter against Watford in Klopp's early days too.


As far as ET goes, it's supposed to be 30 seconds a goal/substitution. I don't know how they treat double or triple substitutions, they definitely don't take as long but even at that I have no idea how they even got 4 minutes for City Pool, I was expecting 1 or 2. One goal and a few subs, in the second half. It wasn't a niggly game and neither side time waste.
From what I saw of Spurs Villa, it was similar. Albeit with more subs made.

Just checked, Spurs made 2 second half substitutions and Villa made 4, two at HT andtwo in stoppage time. Villa also got four yellow cards, albeit I dont know what half they were dished out in.
In City Pool, City made no changes and had 1 yellow, again not sure what half, Pool made 5 changes (in 3 batches) and had 3 yellows (no idea on half). I still cant make that add up to 8 minutes.

So, is it 30 seconds a substitution, a minute for a double etc, and 30 seconds a card too? Newcastle Everton will last 4 days at this rate.

 

[weasel]

I think last night summed Utd's season up pretty well. Play not particularly well, rely on a couple of moments of brilliance and then shoot yourself in the foot. Twice. Onana really is doing his best to go down as the worst GK signing in the PL ever (allowing for fee). Even at that Utd should still have won.

Being two goals up, TWICE, in consecutive games against the might of Copenhagen and Galatasaray and coming away with one point is woeful. An English CL side should be able to close out a game. Granted they have injuries and a few howlers haven't helped, but to let FOUR two goal leads slip against two very average CL sides is inexcusable. The question is, do you blame the manager, he should know how to shut down a game, or is it the players not doing what they should?

Either way Utd are looking at flunking out of a very progress-able group (they were never winning it, but 2nd place was there for the taking). Do Utd fans want the ball ache of EL and Thursday night football, but with another shot at CL qualification, or would they rather no European football and concentrate on the PL?


Ohhh and Newcastle were robbed. That was NEVER EVER EVER a penalty, even in European terms that was beyond harsh. I heard the VAR bod was stood down for last night as a result. That'll make up for the 2pts Newcastle have lost and the tens of millions they'll lose if they miss out on the knock out stages.

 

[lejackal]

You forgot to mention plucky little Arsenal fluking another win

As for Newcastle and VAR they can suck it

 

[weasel]

All I have seen of the Arsenal game was the result. I will assume it was a fluke and sure Lens play in a farmers league

It is nice to see an English side, other City Zzzzzzz, cruise through a fairly comfortable group.

Also good to see you don't hold a grudge against Newcastle lol

 

[theforceuk]

See Southgate has another buy in the first round of a major tournament. So boring.

 

[Cazza]

Yep, should walk it and he'll get all the plaudits, as a result. The Spain/Croatia/Italy group looks a bit tasty!

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah Holland/France in the same group also.

 

[weasel]

Yeah Holland/France in the same group also.

Did they not come through the same qualifying group?
Agreed on England getting a bye to the knock out stages. Ohhh and 6 groups with the four best 3rd place sides qualifying is ****. Four groups, top two go through, as it was, is the ideal set up. Teams HAVE to play to win. The new set up rewards not losing, or losing narrowly. And evertyone loves to watch sides playing damage limitation from start .

Still, 6 groups = more games which OBVIOUSLY = better as far as UEFA are concerned. Sod the fact most of them will be dull and the number of "good" games is halved despite there being more games played.

Back to proper footy, feck me Utd (the Manchester one) were lucky last night. To use a phrase that may not have made it across the Irish Sea, 'Utd were lucky to get nil'. Had that finished four nil Ten Hag could have had no complaints. What saved Utd was Newcastle's complete lack of cutting edge in the final third and their inability to play a decent final ball.
There is logic in playing Luke Shaw at CB, he has played well there the two or three times previously, and he played well last night. But, ehhh, playing him there and them playing a RB at LB all while leaving one of the most decorated CB's in world football on the bench is……strange.
As is picking Anthony Martial, a player who has NEVER looked anything other than someone who flatters to deceive. Playing him in a game where you will need a high work rate is like employing Susan Boyle for a porn shoot and being surprised when no one wants to pay to see it.
Even at that what he produced and what Rashford produced was shameful. If I was ETH I'd drop the pair of them for a month until they at least realise the utter bare minimum for a professional footballer is to break sweat and you know….run!
Scott McTominay was also anonymous, but at least he ran about and tried, albeit from inside Joelinton's pocket.

Credit where it's due, fat Maguire was very solid last night. Those are the kind of games that suit him, backs to the wall and making clearances etc. It's the games where he has time and is expected to pick passes and almost dictate play that he struggles. But him and Shaw were all, but a two man team last night.

 

[theforceuk]

This is what Man Utd are, it's boring talking about it. Every game is the same.

 

[weasel]

I'm hoping they play like that in two weeks time.