Premier League 23/24 Thread

[edd_jedi]

In case you missed it

 

[lejackal]

Finally watched the Newcastle Arsenal highlights. I'd be annoyed if I was a Gooner, but can totally see why it was allowed. None of the incidents would've been a clear error. We paused the ball out moment and used a ruler on the screen lol, and it definitely looked like a smidge of the ball was still in play. The foul and the offside were inconclusive. WHU had two very similar fouls not given for both Newcastle goals recently in the 2-2. Both times, defenders got clearly pushed in the back directly before the goal. The Isak one on Aguerd was so blatant, but not given.

Hardbto be sympathetic when Arteta has to be the biggest hypocrite going, though! The fuss over these decisions, firstly Liverpool, now Arsenal is crazy, considering all the things that happen to other clubs. During lockdown, we lost to Man U and the ball for the winning goal was WAY out of play. So much so, that it went over the coaches heads! How much furore and outrage was there about that? PGMOL said they didn't have cameras in the correct positions to tell, yet fans managed to draw lines on the stills that show it clear as day. Moyes was livid, but it was instantly forgotten. Arteta is the guy who waves imaginary yellows, is always out of his tech area, drags his injured players back onto the pitch to stop the game etc etc and his team get loads of dodgy decisions go their way. After the Liverpool incident, I'm sure I remember him saying something along the lines of 'Mistakes happen'. Muppet.

Would you prefer your club and manager to continue to bend over and get shafted in silence week in, week out? Or do you want them to kick up a fuss over officiating that is getting worse, not better?

 

[lejackal]

In case you missed it

View attachment 186039

12 minutes added but 17 minutes of VAR stoppages. Makes perfect sense

 

[edd_jedi]

Would you prefer your club and manager to continue to bend over and get shafted in silence week in, week out? Or do you want them to kick up a fuss over officiating that is getting worse, not better?

I think the point Cazza was making (and don't get me wrong, Klopp and other managers do this too) is that Arteta is happy to have a big smug grin on his face in post-match interviews when decisions go his way, but then something doesn't and it's an outrage. Arsenal have had the most penalties this season, a load of things went his way early on in last season too, and there was no club statements or meltdowns then. Just as before VAR, there are good and bad decisions that tend to even out.

 

[Cazza]

I think the point Cazza was making (and don't get me wrong, Klopp and other managers do this too) is that Arteta is happy to have a big smug grin on his face in post-match interviews when decisions go his way, but then something doesn't and it's an outrage. Arsenal have had the most penalties this season, a load of things went his way early on in last season too, and there was no club statements or meltdowns then. Just as before VAR, there are good and bad decisions that tend to even out.

Exactly that!

 

[lejackal]

I didn't see anyone berating Moyes for being happy with the West Ham win in October 2022, nor the month before when he went ballistic at the officials over *checks notes* VAR and the var operator being unfit for post.

Come back when your manager is squeaky clean.

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah VAR is atrocious and I hate to admit it but for me it's partially ruined the game. The rare occasions when Utd score I go to celebrate and then sit straight back down and I immediately think VAR.

The PGMOL have got a lot to answer to IMO. They've made football all about themselves and are a law to themselves. Turn VAR off and have it for goal line technology and off side. AND have the same automated off side system they have in the World Cup.

 

[Cazza]

Hey, Peaches, I'll come back when I want Moyes isn't absolutely squeaky clean- dont think many managers are, especially as it's such an emotive game. The point I was trying to make was clubs like MC, Liverpool, Arsenal, tend to get a lot of decisions go their way on a weekly basis. The moment it goes wrong, it's headline news (the media are also to blame here) club statements etc. Comes across like arrogant entitlement to fans of the other clubs. Not a good look. As you say, he's perfectly entitled to stick up for his club, but there does seem to be a lot of hypocrisy with Arteta and Klopp as well. X

 

[theforceuk]

I feel the clubs and fans have to complain about the officiating this season, it's getting worse not better. X player pundits saying the managers shouldn't complain as it's putting pressure on the officials is nonsense. Football is already a dictatorship run by the governing body's, it's in danger of being run by the PGMOL if they're not held accountable. Imagine if the managers performed as badly as the officials. The only other job I can think of where a professional does such a bad job and is not held accountable is politics.

 

[weasel]

The Spurs Chelsea game was superb entertainment. Probably the best game I have watched as a neutral in years. The two Spurs boys can have no complaints about their red cards, both probably should have gone for the first offences. To lose Madison and Van Der whatshisface as well is a big loss for Spurs. I think I said a few weeks ago that we only find out how good they/Ange are when things go against them. Well, that game was definitely things going against them. So now we see.
Needless to say they have City in a few weeks and will have van der thingy and Romero both missing along with possibly Madison. Not like City's luck to get things going their way.

And I do agree that the standard of refereeing in the PL is poor. For Professionals, they really aren't very good. As @theforceuk says, in any other line of work they would have been fired. Politics is a poor example as you HAVE to be an incompetant, egotistical, lying, two faced, arsehole to even stand in an election

Hard to be sympathetic when Arteta has to be the biggest hypocrite going, though! The fuss over these decisions, firstly Liverpool, now Arsenal is crazy, considering all the things that happen to other clubs. During lockdown, we lost to Man U and the ball for the winning goal was WAY out of play. So much so, that it went over the coaches heads! How much furore and outrage was there about that? PGMOL said they didn't have cameras in the correct positions to tell, yet fans managed to draw lines on the stills that show it clear as day. Moyes was livid, but it was instantly forgotten.

I remember that, and I remember being livid that it was given. It wasn't a matter of 'was it out or not' it was out by FEET and about ten feet at that. Utterly utterly ridiculous that the ref and lino didn't notice the ball had gone over the line, over the roof of the stand, over the channel, and into France, before coming back in to play.


I think half the problem of managers getting all upset about any remotely contentious VAR call is the fact that they use it as a means of deflection. "Guys, we only lost cos VAR shafted us." Or effectively, "Here media…talk about this VAR thing and not how **** my team were."
Jose and Fergy used to do it every time they lost. It got very very predictable (can you sense my love of Jose shining through?) yet the media fell for it EVERY SINGLE time. Almost all PL managers now try the same trick. None are exempt.
Think of it like this, how many times have you seen a manager lambast VAR/ref? A lot. Probably three or four times a weekend. Can you think of a single example where a manager came out and said "we got lucky, VAR won us that game"? I can't.
The fact Ref's VAR don't/aren't allowed to speak to the media just means they are a punch bag that doesn't answer back and an easy kop out for all managers.

 

[Cazza]

Maybe the clubs need to get together and do a joint statement.

 

[weasel]

Sadly, I think the time for that was after the farce at Spurs Liverpool. When Pool were left to stsnd alone there, that horse bolted. If 19 other sides dnt give enough of a **** after a shambles like that, they are hardly likely to join up over a few contentious offside/penalty calls. Admittedly Klopp's daft replay call probably didnt help, but that was the time for club's to stand up and FINALLY do something.

I do think something needs to be done, but like City's FFP breeches, I don't see how we get the solution we want/the solution that is right.

 

[edd_jedi]

Well it was a great start to the season for Spurs, and we'll still be in the top four regardless of other results, but the tide has definitely turned. Obviously having 7 of your starting 11 either injured or suspended is going to devastate any team except City. We've also conceded four goals after the 90th minute in the last two matches, so anyone who says we've been lucky, that argument is out of the window.

But what I'm most worried about is Postecoglu's apparent lack of a Plan B, evident in the last two matches. Poch was exactly the same, we were great to watch when things went well, but sometimes you have to settle for a draw, and he just couldn't do it. We would be in a much better position now if he had just sat back with 10 men in the box in the Chelsea game. There's a thin line between brave and stupid.

 

[edd_jedi]

You couldn't make it up

 

[lejackal]

You couldn't make it up

View attachment 186137

So he's wrong even when joking with journalists?

 

[weasel]

I saw a large chunk of the Spurs game, from 15-85mins (I managed to miss all the bloody goals). I thought Wolves totally out played them. In the final third Wolves were pure League One, from what I saw, but over the rest of the pitch they were miles the better side.
Granted Spuds have a few injuries and suspensions, but Wolves would have had that game put to bed if they had a ******* clue what to do in and around the Spurs box. They put five corners in a row straight into the first Spurs defender.

It wouldn't have been "daylight robbery" if Spurs had held on, but it definitely would have been a case of winning when you didn't play well or maybe didn't deserve it.

I agree @edd_jedi had Ange set up shop against Chelsea and possibly in the last 5 today you may well have been better off (or you could still have lost and then we would be slagging him for changing it) but Spurs are streets ahead of where anyone expected them to be. It's a disappointing result but if I was a Spurs fan I wouldn't be too upset with how the season has gone so far. Everyone said the Spurs squad was thin, and that is maybe being proved now. Give Ange another window or two to sort it. The evidence so far is you have a good one.

Ohh and I forgot to say, from that Chelsea Spurs game, Nicholas Jackson has to be the worst striker to play in the PL since Jason Lee. He scored a hat trick but even a medicore PL striker would have had 5 or 6. He just does not look like a PL player. Cue him bagging 12 against Pool now.

 

[edd_jedi]

So he's wrong even when joking with journalists?

This is his reactions, in successive games, regarding VAR:


There's only one thing that's embarrassing, and it's not VAR...

 

[edd_jedi]

I saw a large chunk of the Spurs game, from 15-85mins (I managed to miss all the bloody goals). I thought Wolves totally out played them. In the final third Wolves were pure League One, from what I saw, but over the rest of the pitch they were miles the better side.
Granted Spuds have a few injuries and suspensions, but Wolves would have had that game put to bed if they had a ******* clue what to do in and around the Spurs box. They put five

I didn't see the game today but yes from what I've heard Wolves were much better and deserved the win. That's not really my point, it's that how many teams can compete without half of their first choice players? Surely at some point it becomes an unfair disadvantage.

I'm obviously happy that Spurs are doing better than everyone including me expected, but I'm mightily pissed off that just as things start to go our way for once, bang seven injuries / suspensions. Two self inflicted I concede, but that's beyond unlucky.

 

[lejackal]

Have you actually watched the interview, or just taken the headline out of context?

 

[edd_jedi]

Have you actually watched the interview, or just taken the headline out of context?

Yes you're right, he's even worse than I thought...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/67391152
"Put it everywhere like you did with the other one"

That's not a joke...

 

[lejackal]

I didn't see the game today but yes from what I've heard Wolves were much better and deserved the win. That's not really my point, it's that how many teams can compete without half of their first choice players? Surely at some point it becomes an unfair disadvantage.

I'm obviously happy that Spurs are doing better than everyone including me expected, but I'm mightily pissed off that just as things start to go our way for once, bang seven injuries / suspensions. Two self inflicted I concede, but that's beyond unlucky.

That's what squads are for, if your club hasn't built a competitive squad it's on them.

 

[weasel]

I didn't see the game today but yes from what I've heard Wolves were much better and deserved the win. That's not really my point, it's that how many teams can compete without half of their first choice players? Surely at some point it becomes an unfair disadvantage.

I'm obviously happy that Spurs are doing better than everyone including me expected, but I'm mightily pissed off that just as things start to go our way for once, bang seven injuries / suspensions. Two self inflicted I concede, but that's beyond unlucky.

Aye, tiz a fair point. Pool had that issue the season after they won the title. It was getting to the stage where I celebrated a game or a week without a new injury, the result was irrelevant it was just a case of "don't get injured, don't get injured, don't get injured."
It reaches a point where it becomes self perpetuating, there are so many injured, or suspended, that the team is picked purely on 'who is fit'. The fact someone may have played 8 games on the spin and be clean shattered/in the red zone, is irrelevant cos there is no one else. Then sure enough they break too, and the work load is increased on everyone else, or someone is rushed back too soon and their injury recurs.

The only solution is a blank cheque book like City's were u can sign 97 players worth 50m each. That way rotation is dead easy. Need to rest a player, no probs how about replacing him with this sub who cost 50m? Or this other one who cost 50m? Or this guy who can play there too, he cost 70m!?

 

[weasel]

That's what squads are for, if your club hasn't built a competitive squad it's on them.

Did Arsenal's title challenge not drop off last year when a few injuries kicked in?

 

[lejackal]

Did Arsenal's title challenge not drop off last year when a few injuries kicked in?

Yep. Did I once suggest it wasn't fair?

 

[theforceuk]

Spurs and Gunners rivalry is funny! I new Spurs would struggle without Maddison, I watched them against Palace, he was the definition of a number 10 running the game.

You all need to watch out Man Utd are on the march! I'm joking.

 

[weasel]

You all need to watch out Man Utd are on the march! I'm joking.

Before today's games they were the in form team in the PL.
I think Pool may now be level with them. Impressive for a club 'in crisis' whose manager is apparently a dead man walking.

Yep. Did I once suggest it wasn't fair?

Every day! I remember you crying on here for weeks about it! Honest

 

[weasel]

Great game between Chelsea and City today. I still don't get what Poch sees in Jackson but fairs ***** to Chelsea, they are starting to look like a team.


Now if they could just **** off back to being an utter shambles, that would be nice!

 

[theforceuk]

I'd like to see Hojland in that Chelsea team, well I wouldn't, but you know what I mean. Looks like we may have a threesome in the title race. Haven't had that for a while, that's what she said.

Unbelievable know one has been sacked yet. Who's going to be the first? Or could we actually have a season where know one is sacked. The 3 clubs that came up are probably going down. One may survive if Everton actually get deducted points.

Yes @weasel ETH has got 30 wins from his first 50 PL games, with everything he's had to deal with off the pitch I stand by my opinion he's doing ok, not good or well but he's surviving and getting results. I've noticed two PL clean sheets back to back albeit against Fulham and Luton, the defence is the first thing a good coach rectifies. We will see, he's got a trip to Anfield on the horizon.

 

[edd_jedi]

Speaking of Chelsea, I now have a new least favourite player - Cole Palmer. What a horrible, arrogant, disrespectful boy. He reminds me of Mason Mount before he moved to United and disappeared. Harry Kane is the kind of role model kids need, not these wannabe gangsters

 

[weasel]

Yeah, those are pretty impressive stats for ETH. I guess flattered somewhat by a EL campaign last yr and a Carling cup run (what was Utd's run to the final like? Obviously not the procession of cushy home draws City get every year, but from memory they got a good few nice draws).

Utd's big issue is, if they do sack him (and he has at least a few games left before that happens) then who the feck takes over and does a better job? Fat Sam would be my choice, but then some would say I am biased.