PL 2017-2018 Thread

[SAVORY100]

Loath the guy but I have to respect that he scored from the penalty spot in literally the last kick of the game to put them through... ice cold delivery.
... and then reminds us all what a total nobber he is by celebrating like an utter twat!

 

[edd_jedi]

Can't complain about losing to City but it's just Spurs' luck that they magically find their form against us after their worst run for 12 years. Glad they scored a third because if they'd won because of that non-penalty I'd have felt hard done by. Loris has been a liability for the last few games, hopefully just going through a bad patch.

I think Poch might have to swallow his pride and start playing Alderweireld again, the back line is less than convincing without him. Still nowhere near convinced Spurs will finish in the top 4, especially as both Liverpool and Chelsea won today.

 

[Snaketibe]

A disappointing result for Spurs certainly, but City played well and just about deserved it overall, although Tottenham certainly didn't disgrace themselves. City also had a large slice of luck with the penalty they were awarded when the foul was very clearly outside of the area, plus Lamela was unlucky not to be awarded one himself.

I'm sure we'll bounce back against Brighton on Tuesday, and our remaining games should all be a lot more straightforward than playing City was! Providing there's no complacency or end of season implosion like the Spurs of a few years ago, I think a top four finish is all but guaranteed, and I still fancy us for second place if I'm honest. Time will tell!

 

[weasel]

Not seen Spurs City game, just watched MOTD2 highlights of Utd.

Genuine question for Utd fans, are Utd improving under Jose? Or should that be 'are Utd improving enough under Jose?' They are better than under LVG but then any manager competent would have improved them. Has Jose really made them that much better, espcially given how much he has spent? They still don't look like a 'team'. For me they are winning games becuase they have some very good players who produce enough good moments to out class weaker sides, and they have the world's best keeper. They don't look like a team though, they don't really have a style of play as such and just seem to win games by being less bad than the opposition.

That's not me trying to wind Utd fans up, they are second in the league and obviously a good team, I just can't help but feel that a different manager would have got more out of them. Spurs and Pool are both more than the sum of their parts. City too, though their parts where very very exoensively assembled. Utd are most definitely less.

Am I being unfair blaming Jose? I freely admit to hating the guy.

 

[theforceuk]

I don't think your being unfair blaming Jose, at the end of the day he's in charge and as I have said before the manager is responsible for everything. That said the players do need to take a good look at themselves, that result yesterday, was it really JM fault? I've watched some interviews with players that we have recently signed Lukaku being one of them and I could not believe what he was saying, he was suprised how scrutinised his performances have been? Really?

I said it last week after beating City, it's nothing to celebrate, yet the players were acting like they had taken I huge step towards winning the league themselves. Problem JM has is he can't fall out with any of the players any more, because he will loose the dressing room and then his job like at Chelsea.

He should have got the job straight after Fergie and if he had we would have won a league by now I'm sure of it. You can spend as much money as you want, it doesn't mean your going to win the league. I mean if your going on that logic why haven't Liverpool won at least one league title recently. I personally don't think JM will leave without at least winning the league and I'm looking forward to going into next season with a manager that has two full seasons under his belt.

Another point I would like to make as well is the attacking style of football that the club always bangs on about. If you look at post war success of Man Utd there has only been two managers that have played attacking football and been successful. And Fergie very often used to grind results out especially when Chelsea and City started spending. I've got friends who support Utd and they say get rid of JM and I'm just amazed how short sighted they are. Don't forget Fergie whent 3 seasons without winning the league in the mid 00's and then won 3 in a row and 4 our 5 league titles. Time is the most sort after commodity for managers these days, not money.

 

[edd_jedi]

The table doesn't lie (except when Arsenal finished second a couple of seasons ago :lol: ) so I think most people would consider that progress. Pep finished third last season, one place below his predecessor the season before. As above time is important, you don't adopt a consistent style overnight. I think utd are certainly title contenders again which wasn't the case a couple of seasons ago, so they would be mad to get rid of him.

Oh and as nobody else has mentioned it yet, City are champions! Much more interesting is the battle for 2nd to fourth, all to play for. Wolves are up next season, still hard to say who else will be up and down. Would love to see West Brom dig themselves out of trouble.

 

[SAVORY100]

For me the biggest issue with JM at Utd is that he simply doesn't have a first 11. One minuet Pogba is in and on a run of games, the next it's Lingard then it's Martial etc. etc. I feel strongly that they would be far stronger with 9 players playing consistently every week than the rotation of 5-6 every week or two that he seems to favour at the moment.

As for Spurs... what a totally deflating performance and result. stupid mistakes, Lamela starting over Son, Lloris' form is concerning, Alderweirld contact issues... it all feels too unsettled right now. I don't think that 4th is at risk and I'm still confident that we can grab third... maybe even second after Man Utd's 0-1 home loss to the bottom in the league team. Its next season (and summer dealings (or potential lack of) that with this unsettled feeling are starting to niggle at me.

 

[SAVORY100]

On an Arsenal point... Wenger has got a massive pair of Cahooners...
He has basically (and very publicly with this weekend's squad selection) decided to not bother with the league, risk the current sixth place and throw everything they have at winning the Europa League. The reward is massive, so a gambling man he clearly is...
Wrapping the entire midfield in cotton wool this weekend to save them for Europe has put them within 2 points of dropping to seventh and having no European football at any level next season. Their draw in the Europa is the hard one, win the semis and they should win the cup, but i'll say it again, the draw they have is the hard one... it's a big gamble..

 

[theforceuk]

For me the biggest issue with JM at Utd is that he simply doesn't have a first 11. One minuet Pogba is in and on a run of games, the next it's Lingard then it's Martial etc. etc. I feel strongly that they would be far stronger with 9 players playing consistently every week than the rotation of 5-6 every week or two that he seems to favour at the moment.

I agree and Sanchez arriving half way through the season has made it worse. It's already been said, but Utd do always look like a team of individuals rather than a team.

Oh yeah congratulations to Man City, not sure if it was possible to finish above them this season. Also well done Wolves looking foreword to seeing them in the Premiership next season.

 

[edd_jedi]

On an Arsenal point... Wenger has got a massive pair of Cahooners

He's been completely deluded for years. He calls every draw or defeat to Spurs "dropping points" when that hasn't been reality for the best part of a decade. He probably still thinks they can finish in the top four, and I have no doubt he thinks winning the Europa League is likely. I think the fact they have undeservedly won silverware the last few seasons has had a negative impact, a few fruitless seasons might have brought him back to reality a bit.

 

[Snaketibe]

On an Arsenal point... Wenger has got a massive pair of Cahooners

He's been completely deluded for years. He calls every draw or defeat to Spurs "dropping points" when that hasn't been reality for the best part of a decade. He probably still thinks they can finish in the top four, and I have no doubt he thinks winning the Europa League is likely. I think the fact they have undeservedly won silverware the last few seasons has had a negative impact, a few fruitless seasons might have brought him back to reality a bit.

I still hope he stays on next season. Wenger's doing a terrific job for Spurs! :lol:

As for City, yes congratulations to their owners on buying the title with nearly half a billion pounds spent just since Pep took over (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-break-club-record-sign-aymeric-laporte-571m/), on top of the many more hundreds of millions spent since the club was bought :shock:

What a great job Pep has done, bringing in any player he wanted with money being no object at all. I reckon Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew could have won the title managing City this year. That may sound like sour grapes from a disgruntled Spurs fan, but it really isn't. City have broken the Financial Fair Play Rules left right and centre with impunity, showing what a complete joke both they and EUFA actually are (as if we didn't already know!).

Is it really a great achievement to win the Premiership title way? Leicester winning two years ago was infinitely more impressive, IMHO, and if you look at league performance relative to club spending, Spurs kick City's ass miles into touch!... Still, it's only results that count, so City win it this year, but they may find it harder to keep doing it year after year, as Chelski have found, despite all of Abramovich's billions. City will remain a very strong side for as long as their owners are prepared to spend money like water, but I don't think they'll win the title every year going forward as there are far too many other factors that can throw a spanner in their works.

 

[weasel]

I reckon Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew could have won the title managing City this year.

Wow, steady on now. Pardew could get Barcelona relegated! The man has won something like 3 of his last 40 PL games. My granny could do better and she's been dead for 10 years.

City have broken the Financial Fair Play Rules left right and centre with impunity, showing what a complete joke both they and EUFA actually are (as if we didn't already know!).

FFP, was a joke in the first place. It was never about stopping sides from "doing a Leeds" it was about keeping the big teams as the big teams. If you limit smaller clubs ability to spend how do they catch up? UEFA/FIFA big clubs will spout on about encouraging smaller clubs to invest in youth etc but all that happens is big clubs come along and poach/tap up their best players. FFP reinforces the status quo. Nothing more. It was never about anything else. Though obviously it had to be dressed up as something else.

Is it really a great achievement to win the Premiership title way? Leicester winning two years ago was infinitely more impressive, IMHO

Yeah, no arguments here. I think part of the reason City have go so much credit is due to the style of their wins this year and the fact they are on course for a record high pts total. Granted they may not make it. From memory I think Leicester's winning pts total wouldn't have won them the title in most of the seasons before or since. Though a title is a title.

On an Arsenal point... Wenger has got a massive pair of Cahooners...
He has basically (and very publicly with this weekend's squad selection) decided to not bother with the league, risk the current sixth place and throw everything they have at winning the Europa League. The reward is massive, so a gambling man he clearly is...
Wrapping the entire midfield in cotton wool this weekend to save them for Europe has put them within 2 points of dropping to seventh and having no European football at any level next season. Their draw in the Europa is the hard one, win the semis and they should win the cup, but i'll say it again, the draw they have is the hard one... it's a big gamble..

Yeap, I said the same to an Arsenal supporting mate. They will do bloody well to beat Atletico. Atleti are a horrible team to watch, but they are very very effective and they play quite a rough, physical, and tactical game. The kind of opponent and style that is perfect for ripping soft airy fairy sides apart....like Arsenal.
Arsenal also have Utd, Leicester and Burnley still to play. If they play weakened teams against the latter two I could see them losing and finishing outside the European spots becomes a real possibility.
MAYBE missing out on Europe will make the Arsenal Board realise Wenger is taking them backwards fast. From CL qualification to out of European footy in two seasons.
Actually, it's Arsenal. He'll get a new contract.

Much more interesting is the battle for 2nd to fourth, all to play for. Wolves are up next season, still hard to say who else will be up and down. Would love to see West Brom dig themselves out of trouble.

Second to fourth is settled. It's just a case of what order they finish in. I don't see any of the three sides dropping enough pts to let Chelsea in. Plus I don't see Chelsea winning all of their remaining games, there are too many players, and a manager, phoning in their performances at that club.
I also suspect the bottom three are settled as well. Sad to see all three clubs go, but all three pay the price for piss poor managerial appointments. WBA should never have appointed Pardew, his record is a disgrace. They then should have sacked him 2 months ago. Stoke deserved to go down once they appointed a proven failure in the PL. The auld British ex-PL manager getting it cos he has "experience" over any one else. Quite why 'experience' of failing in a league beats no experience or experience in other leagues I'll never know. I was amazed Saints appointed Hughes. Pellegrino had done well before he came to Saints so I cut them some slack there but to then go for a proven failure and one whose career has consistently shown it takes time for his methods to get results at a club (before they go stale and the club nose dives) and to do it when you're knee deep in a relegation dog fight is the definition madness.

I've watched some interviews with players that we have recently signed Lukaku being one of them and I could not believe what he was saying, he was suprised how scrutinised his performances have been? Really?

I still don't think Lukaku is a good signing for Utd. He is a good, or very good, PL striker, but against the big sides and particularly in CL he just isn't good enough. He is fine as a back up option or as one of a pair, but on his own he isn't good enough for a team with supposed PL/CL ambitions.

You can spend as much money as you want, it doesn't mean your going to win the league. I mean if your going on that logic why haven't Liverpool won at least one league title recently.

Yeah, fair point. Pool have underachieved over the years in the PL. Though winnng a PL now is tougher than, say, in the 1990's, thanks to certain ridiculously rich ppl and their love of new shiny play things.

Don't forget Fergie whent 3 seasons without winning the league in the mid 00's and then won 3 in a row and 4 our 5 league titles. Time is the most sort after commodity for managers these days, not money.

Not sure that example holds now. Fergy went 3 years without winning anything but when he took over Utd were a bang average mid table side, with no recent record of success. Jose took over a side that had qualified for the CL, that claimed to be one of the biggest in the world, and were a heck of a lot of the squad had been PL winners just a few yrs before. I do agree patience is virtually non existent in PL board rooms now though. With the amount of money involved clubs just can't afford to be relegated, or in Utd's case not to be in the CL for 2 seasons. I think a few of their sponsorship deals had clauses that meant if they missed out on 2 consecutive yrs of CL the sponsor could terminate or had to pay a hell of a lot less.

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah I did say mid 00's, so Fergie won the league in 2003 and didn't win another one until 2007. My point being that he had won lots and completely rebuilt the team, trust me we were pretty poor during that period as well. Surely JM should be given at least 3 full seasons.

 

[weasel]

Doh, I totally missed that. Back to basic reading classes for me.

I guess Fergy had credit in the bank from what he had done with Utd previously and the fact he already rebuilt the team once. Plus was 03/04 not the start of Ibramovic throwing money at Chelsea? That changed the landscape.

 

[spoons]

On an Arsenal point... Wenger has got a massive pair of Cahooners

He's been completely deluded for years. He calls every draw or defeat to Spurs "dropping points" when that hasn't been reality for the best part of a decade. He probably still thinks they can finish in the top four, and I have no doubt he thinks winning the Europa League is likely. I think the fact they have undeservedly won silverware the last few seasons has had a negative impact, a few fruitless seasons might have brought him back to reality a bit.

Probably comes from having personally won more league trophies and only one less FA cup than Spurs have in their entire history. He is a blinkered and proud man and I suspect it hurts him to have fallen so far. The only way he can get at Spurs these days is to wind up their fans.

On the flip side its always amazed me in recent years why Spurs always seemed keener to finish above Arsenal than try to win something.

Wenger may have tarnished his leagacy and created the shittest Arsenal team in years but to his credit he does still try to win things but will fall short this year.

Genuine question Edd, would you rather Spurs won the FA cup this year and missed out on CL football or finished 4th and win nothing?

Having witnessed Arsenal do the latter for the best part of 10 years it soon gets boring. Now watch Spurs finish 3rd and win the cup!

 

[theforceuk]

Doh, I totally missed that. Back to basic reading classes for me.

I guess Fergy had credit in the bank from what he had done with Utd previously and the fact he already rebuilt the team once. Plus was 03/04 not the start of Ibramovic throwing money at Chelsea? That changed the landscape.

The first season was when Arsenal went unbeaton and then JM won two league titles in a row with Chelsea. I just think surely Jose should have some credit in the bank, having won the league in every job he's been in. In 10 years time everyone may be saying this was the start of the Man City Guardiola time. :?

 

[edd_jedi]

On the flip side its always amazed me in recent years why Spurs always seemed keener to finish above Arsenal than try to win something.

That's rich coming from the team who celebrate St. Totteringham's day like they've won the league :lol: Perhaps if we are ever sad enough to make up a name for the day we finish above you, you'll understand why it wears thin after 20 years.

Genuine question Edd, would you rather Spurs won the FA cup this year and missed out on CL football or finished 4th and win nothing?

Having witnessed Arsenal do the latter for the best part of 10 years it soon gets boring. Now watch Spurs finish 3rd and win the cup!

I would prefer to win a cup as Spurs are long overdue one, they're the only team in the 'big six' not to have won a major trophy in recent years. But as nice as it would be to enjoy a couple of days of glory, honestly I'm not that bothered about success, I just appreciate watching my team play good football. There are 100+ teams in the English leagues and 95 of them win nothing every season, yet still have decent support. I think it's pathetic that Arsenal's stadium has been half empty every game since they've been out of all the competitions, that's the definition of glory supporting. Imagine what it's like supporting a team like Crystal Palace who not only never win anything, but yo-yo up and down the leagues every couple of seasons and just staying up is a big achievement. So I have no sympathy for a team who think they are hard done by because they 'only' won the FA cup.

 

[edd_jedi]

I know I'm being anti-Arsenal above so I'll be diplomatic and point out Utd and Chelsea fans too. Both teams have also had amazing success in the PL era like Arsenal, but that is history and none of them are owed anything. Utd fans turning on LVG and Moyes, Chelsea turning on JM etc, it all just stinks of glory supporting. If you can't support your team without an annual trophy, you're not a real football fan. I admire Liverpool for generally sticking by their managers and team throughout periods similarly bleak to Spurs.

 

[spoons]

On the flip side its always amazed me in recent years why Spurs always seemed keener to finish above Arsenal than try to win something.

That's rich coming from the team who celebrate St. Totteringham's day like they've won the league :lol: Perhaps if we are ever sad enough to make up a name for the day we finish above you, you'll understand why it wears thin after 20 years.

Genuine question Edd, would you rather Spurs won the FA cup this year and missed out on CL football or finished 4th and win nothing?

Having witnessed Arsenal do the latter for the best part of 10 years it soon gets boring. Now watch Spurs finish 3rd and win the cup!

I would prefer to win a cup as Spurs are long overdue one, they're the only team in the 'big six' not to have won a major trophy in recent years. But as nice as it would be to enjoy a couple of days of glory, honestly I'm not that bothered about success, I just appreciate watching my team play good football. There are 100+ teams in the English leagues and 95 of them win nothing every season, yet still have decent support. I think it's pathetic that Arsenal's stadium has been half empty every game since they've been out of all the competitions, that's the definition of glory supporting. Imagine what it's like supporting a team like Crystal Palace who not only never win anything, but yo-yo up and down the leagues every couple of seasons and just staying up is a big achievement. So I have no sympathy for a team who think they are hard done by because they 'only' won the FA cup.

No doubt theres a lot of glory supporters and tourists, but there are also a lot of protest empty seats to force a change. There's changing your manager every year and then there's keeping your manager whatever the outcome.

Arsenal have no away points this year and have only won five away games in the league since the end of 2016. Surely any other top six board would have sacked the manger by now. Voting with feet and scaring off the advertisers is the only way the board will get the message.

- and individuality from Sanchez was a factor in each of those 5 wins. Wenger doesn't have a clue how to set up a team in today's league

 

[edd_jedi]

That's a fair point but we've had this discussion before, if Wenger goes who comes in? BBC News are reporting Vieira None of the other decent managers in the league will leave to manage Arsenal in their current state, and I'm not sure most Arsenal fans are ready to face a few (or twenty :lol: ) mid-table seasons like Spurs have had to find the right manager and rebuild the team. They will want instant gratification like Utd did, but Arsenal are not going to get rid of Wenger, appoint a new manager and then finish top four again next season, it needs to get worse before it will get better. And that's the problem, Arsenal fans have been after Wenger's blood for finishing second!