RetroDan16 said:
It's a shame to see my points have been *totally* missed and construed as trolling. This is absolutely not the case. Nor is this strictly about Echo, unfortunately, most comments in this entire thread seems to apply to Echo most of the time but obviously Facebook groups as a whole.
The root cause of the differences is not of snobbery or elitism but of objections to outright stupidity and ignorance, the latter of which can be solved by less than 30 seconds of google search. Echo Base sadly is rife with these two and its no surprise that people are fed up with it, sadly its a byproduct of Facebook.
RetroDan16 said:
My defence of groups is not just about the comments that seem to deem users of the groups lowly or unknowledgable, but the blinkered attitude to their usefulness.
I don't buy or sell very much personally, anywhere, I use the groups (and I'm signed up to scores of them) for knowledge and learning. The specialist groups are excellent as a resource. No different with this forum, I read far more than I contribute, and have done for some time.
Facebook is not in the same league as the old forums for usefulness. The old forums are huge deposit of knowledge stored in categorized formats, or even interactive formats (YoJoe's WHOBIT as a prime example) and even discussions. Facebook is a cluttered, chaotic stream of consciousness. I've signed up to many groups and really the discussions either appear to be circular about the same subjects or just lifted from the other sites.
As for selling/buying Facebook isn't that great and Echo Base does for the most part cater for low end, buying beaters and trying to then complete them is not either cost effective or niche. You also have to question the merits when a picture is posted of 6 weapons with the question are these vintage Star Wars when 5 of them are some of the most identifiable weapons of the line.
RetroDan16 said:
Writing personally, the fact I'm an admin on Echo is incidental. My gripe with threads like this is that they dismiss most groups on Facebook the same way, which to me is unfair and typical of traditional forum users - the same thing happens in many topic groups, classic gaming being another one that does this exact same thing.)
My point is, threads like this don't help. Comments like above don't help.
If you are across other areas/focuses then you will know its not a unique thing to Star Wars. Many established collectors are frustrated and annoyed by the recent events of facebook where all attempts at education, sharing information and helping each other is being swept away with fads, selfish ego stroking and outright laziness. I've seen knowledgeable people get ignored, belittled by people whose total knowledge could be contained on a postage stamp, all because they can shout louder. On Echo Base I've seen admins berate, goad and belittle people who clearly are in the right when the admin is not, thats not helpful for anything as it demonstrates a total lack of respect for users by the admin.
These types of behaviours were not common place before Facebook so why are they now and more importantly why is it being tolerated? Why do the Facebook lot think that since their arrival on the scene they are the first to do things (has no one created an extensive photo archive on figures and weapons, no one has published comprehensive books that cover the main areas of collecting) and why do they think every question they have should be answered by a person? Have they never attempted to do research or attempted to educate themselves before? I wouldn't go into buying antiques by setting up a group on Facebook then running down the local antique centre and buying everything that looked old. I would be ripped off and fleeced yet this is normal apparently. We live in an age where a boatload of information is but a mere sentence away, yet this ability seems to elude a lot of people.
You might try and argue that is a generational thing or even technological thing, but you'd be wrong as the Star Wars community has repeatedly embraced technology to do business, starting on newsgroups to forums, the rise and rise of ebay. The community itself is pretty open as well with the guys from the original releases dates and then the 90s gladly sharing and talking to younger collectors (see here or even RS). To put it bluntly is a backlash against stupidity and ignorance.
RetroDan16 said:
Crazy prices? Lack of knowledge? It's everywhere; but rather than screengrabbing said crazy prices, and then pasting them back here to gossip about, how can we make things better? This rubbish just isn't productive. Rather than going in circles, how about some positive input?
For the record again, I welcome suggestions to make the platform better, and again, with a common interest, why is it so fractured?
Happy to listen to your input.
Heaven forbid that like minded people talk about events that they know aren't right. Whats the point of positive input when its ignored? Reason debate is out of Facebook replaced but the lowest denominator shout downs. It might not be productive but it allows people to voice their frustrations/concerns without fear of being banned, deleted or ostracized. SWFUK might have its flaws but it allows debate and discussion and things only get locked/deleted if they get well out of hand, I cannot see that happening of Echo Base.
Whats the fix, well there isn't one, the platform of Facebook will continue to attract the idiots and unless its heavily moderated (someone posts a barely literate simple question the are told to use google and improve their english) you will still get them. The platform itself really only suits fast buying and selling with discussions or articles only being held in a very chaotic order. Facebook should be a doorway to the forums (simply because they are a better platform not because they are traditional) but thats not what the groups want so it will always be a disconnect.
PS this sort of structure would not be possible on Facebook.
