The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

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jimmyp said:
Brilliant video that sums up everything wrong with the Movie and Hollywood perfectly :x


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNoMQSvNAWE&app=desktop


Only we can stop all this by refusing to go and see these **** movies anymore.

This is the most annoying reviewer I've ever heard and needs to lighten up a bit, it's only a movie! The points are all fair enough but his review made me far angrier than all of the prequels combined lol. The end of the day it's what Disney wanted to do with this franchise and I still had a fairly good time with it even if there are probably numerous ways they could have gone that would have made for a better movie. No one's telling me anything I didn't already know but it is a film set in space and on strange other worlds so I'm not taking it too seriously any more (maybe it helps to have kids to enjoy watching it through their eyes).

Now we've got Solo to look forward to and to see what JJ can do to wrap this all up, oh and then there's the TV series. I still think in the end there will be more new fans of this than the old ones they'll lose along the way.

Ian
 
Grant_C said:
Do any of you guys think you would like the original trilogy if it was released now. Ignoring any obvious ageing?

A lot of parallels can be drawn. We never got to know much about the emperor in the OT, ditto Fett, very similar to Snoke and Phantasm. No doubt we would rip holes in the OT if we saw them now, ignoring ageing, but I still feel there are less obvious plot holes in them than in TLJ.
Although a few of the plot holes/issues with TLJ do relate to the OT, i'm thinking of the suicide run at lightspeed in the cruiser. A couple of them in ANH would have saved a lot of time and suffering. Also the fact rebel ships can run out of petrol and that they are faster than Star Destroyers. Leia must have picked the Porkins of blockade runners in ANH.
 
I just think there would be a lot of complaints of snowspeeders that attack the front of walkers in the only place where they can get destroyed instead of doing attack runs from the back where they could have literally spent all day shooting cables at no threat.

The Falcon lands in an asteroid that turns out to be the belly of a slug. The heroes go walking around in essentially space in their normal clothes. Could go on and on.... Luke falls and just happens to land in a hole that's slides to the last aerial on Cloud City saving him from death......

I agree with a lot of complaints in this thread, but could imagine the 'fans' if they were introduced to Max Rebo Band, Ewoks or Jabba today?

And I don't get blaming Disney. Its like saying the success of Star Wars came from 20th Century Fox.

Rhian Johnson and Lucasfilm made TLJ. In every interview I have read or watched, no one has ever said that Disney had anything to do with the making of the film. I know that Bob Iger was shown dailies, but I have never seen or read that he or Disney requested any changes. This is also confirmed by people I have spoke to who worked on the film.

I'm not saying that Disney have influence on edits or cuts etc, I have just seen zero evidence of it and tons of evidence that rebuke that claim.

If you know that Disney are influencing the making of these film, be great to see the evidence. Id love to know.
 
and where is the usual complaints about selling more action figures.....?

Perhaps because there is **** all in the way of new action figures from this film. There was probably more action figures in 30 seconds of any prequel that this entire film.
 
I love the OT, hands down my favourite films. From the prequels and sequels it is clear that they were so wonderful and groundbreaking that will never be bettered. I truly believe the original films are superior in every way to the newer ones, from action, to special effects, acting and story. Lucas and the subsequent directors on the OT produced something special and lasting.

One theory i don't agree with is that the excitement and awe we felt watching these films as children can't be recreated. As an adult, I had similar feelings whilst watching The Matrix and the LOTR trilogy to name but two, though I admit they are rare. Only Rogue One has come close to this, none of the new films have invoked any of these feelings and all have left me a little flat and underwhelmed. Why is this? Well for the simple reason TFA, TLJ are good films they just aren't great films and are nowhere near as good as the originals. This is not viewing the OT through rose tinted spectacles, this IMO is fact.

Thinking about it since I watched TLJ, what I want more than anything is what we saw and felt nearly 40 years ago at the cinema and probably the reason we all collect Star Wars figures today. I want to be transported back to that world and time within the Star Wars universe. Maybe this is the problem for me, the newly told stories just don't seem to sit right with that original world. I hope some day we can revisit it in films or TV with the backdrop of the Empire and the Rebellion. This is probably why Rogue One resonated so much with me and why I enjoyed those early PC games like Dark Forces and X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter.
 
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That video on the last page is rubbish I think the film is ok, but that guy hasn't even watched the film properly. The Jedi books are on the MF. I could take him apart on a one on one more than he has taken the film apart no problem.

Surely you can find a better video than that Weasel, your arguments have been more convincing!
 
Grant_C said:
I agree with a lot of complaints in this thread, but could imagine the 'fans' if they were introduced to Max Rebo Band, Ewoks or Jabba today?

Ehh some of us have NEVER EVER EVER liked the ******* Ewoks!


theforceuk said:
That video on the last page is rubbish I think the film is ok, but that guy hasn't even watched the film properly. The Jedi books are on the MF. I could take him apart on a one on one more than he has taken the film apart no problem.

Surely you can find a better video than that Weasel, your arguments have been more convincing!

Ahh it made me laugh, as much at how wound up he got.

I've found plenty of ehhh "better" videos online :wink: but Edd doesn't let us post them on here for some reason :lol:
 
And I don't get blaming Disney. Its like saying the success of Star Wars came from 20th Century Fox.

Rhian Johnson and Lucasfilm made TLJ. In every interview I have read or watched, no one has ever said that Disney had anything to do with the making of the film. I know that Bob Iger was shown dailies, but I have never seen or read that he or Disney requested any changes. This is also confirmed by people I have spoke to who worked on the film.

I'm not saying that Disney have influence on edits or cuts etc, I have just seen zero evidence of it and tons of evidence that rebuke that claim.

If you know that Disney are influencing the making of these film, be great to see the evidence. Id love to know.[/quote]

It's some good points about Disney and it certainly does seem like Rhian Johnson made his version of the film with having the story credit as well as director, but I'm pretty sure if there was anything that Disney didn't really like about it they would have taken it out. They must have signed off on this version and looking at the box-office takings to date they were right to leave it alone. This may well be exactly what they were looking for and they must love Rhian to give him 3 more movies to make before this was even released.

It's the way Star Wars will go but I did enjoy it so it'll be interesting to see where this goes next. From what I've heard from someone at ILM it's the Solo movie that they're all behind.

Ian
 
I think you could be right, but the only thing I have heard is that the scripts are shown to Disney to green light. I'm not sure if they request changes (ie add Porgs etc).

The script for TLJ was handed in when TFA premiered. Its not like they were watching redneck snoke theories on youtube for 2 years.

In an interview with Gareth Edwards, he stated that Disney said it would be a good idea if all the heroes died as they were never in the OT. So there is some input into the creative process, but I have not seen the evidence in which analyse it.

Disney own Miramax as well. Do they influence scenes in Pulp Fiction?........but they don't sell Bad mother Fucka wallets at the Disney store, so io concede that point.
 
It certainly looks like Disney have stepped in at points with Star Wars, look what happened with Gareth Edwards, the lego directors and the ep 9 director. I think they keep a close eye on this franchise as it's so mainstream and profitable for them, same with Marvel. They also realise there are other markets out there like pulp Fiction as you mention but these are not directly associated with Disney, hence putting them out under the Miramar name.

I do think Rhian Johnson was pretty much left alone with ep 8 as there was never really any bad press put out there about him, infant I don't remember hearing any problems with ep 8 (except for Mark Hamil lol). Disney were probably happy with Rhian's script and as mentioned before it looks like they were finically right. I still think though that Disney will step in when they don't think things are quite right for them (mentioned above with the 4 directors who were all replaced or not allowed to have complete control). It's so much money they're dealing with and they certainly don't want their franchise to fail or have no future. That was one of the things that I did like about TLJ though, the fact that they took the story in an unexpected way. It may not have worked for some people but at least no one can say that it's just a copy of ESB.

Ian
 
I loved this movie. Very little to complain about. Will write my thoughts soon. Far better than the predicatable TFA. This movie took a lot of guts to approve and make. I didn't want ESB or another Death Star Planet
 
Richard_H said:
I loved this movie. Very little to complain about. Will write my thoughts soon. Far better than the predicatable TFA. This movie took a lot of guts to approve and make. I didn't want ESB or another Death Star Planet


I'm with you on that Richard for my first screening of it, I'm off to see it tomorrow for my sons Birthday with 3 of his mates so I'll let people know if I feel any different after.

Ian.
 
Whichever way you look at this movie there a lot of Star Wars fans that have been left disappointed and the people who liked it should acknowledge that, the same way the disappointed fans should acknowledge that a lot liked it too. Despite it's shortcomings I think we can all agree it's better than the prequels, but nowhere near the OT! :D
 
Andyclarke said:
Whichever way you look at this movie there a lot of Star Wars fans that have been left disappointed and the people who liked it should acknowledge that, the same way the disappointed fans should acknowledge that a lot liked it too. Despite it's shortcomings I think we can all agree it's better than the prequels, but nowhere near the OT! :D


That works for me and I certainly don't want to argue with anyone about it as I can easily see both sides to this film. I think I've lost interest in really caring about the product that's post George but can still get enjoyment out of it. Everyone has their own opinions about movies which I'm happy with as it means there's something for everyone out there.

Ian
 
Grant_C said:
Do any of you guys think you would like the original trilogy if it was released now. Ignoring any obvious ageing?

Personally, yes.

I raw, gritty way in which the OT was made. Unfortunately because of huge leaps in technology movies are not 'made' anymore, they are designed. I remember Lucas once said that he would have loved to have had the effects of today back then but he didn't and the movie was better for it. Hand built sets, painted backdrops are what made the OT.

I wouldn't say Disney are directly responsible for the sequels but they had a hand in it. Its a cash cow to them., they are a business and they don't care who they upset or what they destroy. Abrams and Johnson have both proved to be terrible film makes, but that's just my own opinion. Even now after more viewings, the Leia scene makes me wince.
 
Its been a week now for me and my initial reaction hasn't improved, if anything, I dislike the film even more.

I can understand that Disney want to have a clean slate to make their own movies without being tied to whats already out there - and thats the reason for killing everyone off (as much as I dont like it) so I'm going to list my points as a non star wars fan. I also didnt like the forced humour, ropey CG on Yoda and the terrible design of the casino planet but those are subjective and others may have enjoyed it. The less said about super leia the better.

As a sequel (and one from a studio that specialises in interconnected films) the main point of this one is to continue the story set up in Force Awakens. Unfortunately a lot of the plot points set up in its prequel are just not answered or thrown away for the sake of an unfunny gag.

Who is Snoke? This was the big question on everyones lips and his screen time here (whilst excellently played by Serkis and his animators) doesnt deliver on that question they baited us for two years about. Who are Reys parents? TFA makes out this is a big deal since her inner conflict is all about them returning, they must be important to her and therefore to the plot. But they are just brushed aside as a couple of junkies by Kylo Ren - what an anticlimax. Ah but what if he's lying? Well he might be but do we really need to wait 3 movies to find this out?
The most criminal of these is the Lightsabre scene at the very end of TFA. This scene was great and the look on Lukes face when he was presented with it had so much feeling in it we all thought the follow up would be spectacular. But he just tosses it over his shoulder and milks a dugong. Why?

So these three follow up scenes are a letdown but perhaps it works as a standalone film? So at the end of the day, what's about?

Is it a story of how Rey seeks out Luke to train to be a jedi? Not really since Luke doesnt train her as such and theres no real struggle but she still gets super powerful. The heroes journey without all the middle bits.

Is it about Kylo's conflict between the light and the dark? Well yes is it and these scenes were the ones I enjoyed although theres no real payout from them like we had with Vader in ROTJ. He's just a bad guy and even when he does do a good deed (not blowing up his mum) she gets blown up anyway.

Is it about Lukes showdown with his former pupil? Not really since this scene happens right at the end and has no consequences since luke isnt there (this was obvious from him surviving the bombardment and using the same lightsabre that just got destroyed).

Phasma's revenge on Finn? Nope, she gets no screen time to set this up and just has a scrap with him which she wins and then doesnt.

All good films have a point to them, TFA, whilst a retread of ANH, is clear about whats going on, but I was lost throughout this one as nothing really meant anything as people kept dying before their story was resolved or the plot was just dropped.

So if the film doesnt really have a major plot that means the main story is a chase movie, but they're supposed to be exciting....
 
Nice post by Gus Lopez earlier that made me chuckle...

25498122_10210877203390467_3909625485786702968_n.JPG
 
:lol:

Was thinking about writing a review myself.

Why doesn't the blockade running just go into hyperspace when Vader is chasing it? Its not like Vader couldn't track it through hyperspace? :?
 
Not really sure if Gus post was supposed to be ironic as most of his points aren't really film breaking plot holes or even issues at all. Nevertheless I tried to write my review irrespective of those sort of issues and focus on the problems I see with the storytelling and plot - or lack of both in this case.
 
Definitely give it another go.

I hated it the first 2 showings. Hated it. Nothing made sense and Luke didn't go Jedi Master mental.

I think its the third best one now.
 
Gus's review made me laugh and makes for a good comparison (even if they did push it a bit further in TLJ). I'm off to see it again for my sons Birthday today so I'll see how I feel the second go around.

One other small point is that I've seen some complaining about the way the CG Yoda looked but if you look at this I think they did their best to recapture the ESB one 8)


https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-last-jedi-puppet-yoda/


https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/176843/in-the-last-jedi-how-was-this-character-filmed

Ian
 
Well I'm in a happy place with my SW love - didn't really like TFA but daughter loved it so I went along with it and enjoyed it through her even buying the modern OT characters like Ackbar and Solo.
This time however I really disliked the film and much to my surprise (and delight) so did my wife and daughter.

Absolutely delighted that so many people have enjoyed it but as I said at the start my SW fandom is much clearer now - I am an OT guy for sure and that's all I need. Had a wee purge of the TFA figures and my collection feels better for it.
I won't be bothering with the Solo film or Episode 9 just like I don't bother with the Marvel films - for me they are all the same thing now.

The collecting universe is a big old place with room for everyone shame but inevitable that differing opinions can sometimes bring out a bit too much emotion but that's the world we live in.

Right I'm off to watch ESB as it makes me feel 8 again and excited about snow speeders and Walkers on my Santa list - much better than the jaded grumpy 45 year old bastard watching TLJ :D

Cheers 8)
 
I really don't have a problem with people moaning about the new films, I used to and some of the reasons people give sometimes I find frustrating. But Star Wars is such a personal thing for us origional trilogy fans, I completely understand why some get so frustrated and vent their anger.

That is half the problem, we all have our own idea what a Star Wars film should be about and although they are all different, we all pretty much want another ESB, which isn't going to happen. One thing I do think is TLJ has made it very easy for fans to complain about, which is disappointing.
 
theforceuk said:
I really don't have a problem with people moaning about the new films, I used to and some of the reasons people give sometimes I find frustrating. But Star Wars is such a personal thing for us origional trilogy fans, I completely understand why some get so frustrated and vent their anger.

That is half the problem, we all have our own idea what a Star Wars film should be about and although they are all different, we all pretty much want another ESB, which isn't going to happen. One thing I do think is TLJ has made it very easy for fans to complain about, which is disappointing.

Some of the comments have been completely bizarre, not on here particularly, but elsewhere on social media. It goes from just plain daftness, to completely made up stuff to abuse and everything in between. It's bonkers. The only thing I've seen that's been worse recently has been the female Doctor Who crisis :lol:

Nothing will ever replace the nostalgia of the OT for me, but each to their own like you say.
 
Well i've just got back from my second screening of it and have to say that I still really enjoyed it. I had tears in my eyes with excitement 4 times throughout it and even found most of the humour didn't really feel that out of place. I didn't even mind the Leia Marry Poppins part too much, although I think this is due to that first shot that just lingers on her motionless face, it's really nicely shot and lit and forgave a bit of the strangeness of seeing her float back into the ship. There's also another great shot of Leia I liked when you first see her on Crate, she has her collar up and you can just see her eyes, now that's the Princess I remember for the OT!

All in all I just found it entertaining and exciting (especially the last third), and even though there are parts that could well have been written better it didn't really spoil the film for me. Even the Canto Bight section which most people seem to really dislike I didn't mind for the fact that it did remind me of the Prequels. The OT works amazingly on it's own and I can understand why for some fans this is where the story ends, but if you want to go further into this universe then you have to accept at least some of the prequels (we can all pick and choose which parts). This Canto Bight section worked as a bridge for me between the OT and Prequels so it didn't really bother me.

I can see all the problems that people are saying (it's not like they're easy to miss), but they really don't bother me that much, I'm happy to just be entertained at this point as I grew up with the OT and will always have those memories of what Star Wars means to me from that time.

Ian
 
Palifan said:
Even the Canto Bight section which most people seem to really dislike I didn't mind for the fact that it did remind me of the Prequels.


Ehh, you LIKE being reminded of the prequels? :shock:

Pretty sure that's banning behaviour :wink: :lol:
 
[youtube]EIY-PsHrj9A[/youtube]

I know you can do some fancy thing to embed the clip but I'm in a lazy mood :lol:


MOD EDIT, Yeah tricky, took me all of 4 seconds! If I can do it, it really can't be that tricky.

Weaz.
 

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