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The Acolyte 4th June, 2024
- Thread starter Cazza
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I thought it the worse that Disney`s produced. Pathetic and pointless ,other than stating witches created life possibly with a Sith`s help. And that bloody sniffing rodent/dog was annoying, and the lighstaber changing colour...I could go on. What a pile of
I enjoyed it on the whole. The premise, era, story all had a lot of potential, which it unfortunately didn't reach IMHO. A lot of the ideas probably sounded/looked good in preproduction, but didn't turn out so well in reality. I loved a lot of the fight choreography and the sets were great. I liked the way it linked in with all the other eras in some way or another, including EU stuff. I liked most of the characters (some were killed off too soon though!) and I didn't find it too box-tickey.
For me, the main problem was choppy editing and lack of character development/poor scripts, which was exacerbated by the short episode lengths. Everything felt too short and shallow. I would like another series, but a better script and longer, more character-driven episodes would be essential. There's definitely more story to tell here.
Overall, a missed opportunity.
For me, the main problem was choppy editing and lack of character development/poor scripts, which was exacerbated by the short episode lengths. Everything felt too short and shallow. I would like another series, but a better script and longer, more character-driven episodes would be essential. There's definitely more story to tell here.
Overall, a missed opportunity.
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BabyAckbar
Padawan
I really enjoyed the show. Great action and interesting characters and genuinely unexpected events.
Didn't expect it to end that way either.
The fight in episode 7 was awesome.
The end credits of episode 3 and 7 show that some of the witches hold the rank of "ensign".
To the best of my knowledge it has only ever been used in navy terms. Why apply it to a rank in coven? Surely Sister is the better word since the senior witches are Mothers.
Didn't expect it to end that way either.
The fight in episode 7 was awesome.
I don't understand Mae's decision though. I get that she wants Osha to decide her own future but after all that had happened why would they chose to seperate? I get that Osha had tasted the power of the Dark Side and wanted more but giving up her sister? I don't see how Mar could go along with that.
Pretty cool seeing the lightsaber turn red. Wish Lucas had gone through with that in EPISODE III.
Pretty cool seeing the lightsaber turn red. Wish Lucas had gone through with that in EPISODE III.
The end credits of episode 3 and 7 show that some of the witches hold the rank of "ensign".
To the best of my knowledge it has only ever been used in navy terms. Why apply it to a rank in coven? Surely Sister is the better word since the senior witches are Mothers.
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It was a slow start, but the story delivered towards the end.
I think the politics around it are just politics to get people interested in the show. It started off as no one watched, and boom, now it's one of Disney+'s most streamed shows.
I hope we see more of Darth Pelagius the wise!
I think the politics around it are just politics to get people interested in the show. It started off as no one watched, and boom, now it's one of Disney+'s most streamed shows.
I hope we see more of Darth Pelagius the wise!
Can you evidence as one of Disney+ most streamed shows? If its for 2024, then it was up against only one other piece of original content. By episode 4 it had fallen off the Nielsen charts. 75% of Mandolorian viewers did not watch this show according to cosmicbook.news.
There are plenty of fan shill websites pushing it was a big success, prostituting their integrity for the hopes of red carpet invites and Lucasfilm trinkets from Disney.
monkey_roo
Sith Lord
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Take or leave this chaps view on the editorial - but I think he does a decent job of comparing the numbers and shows: https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2024-07-19-the-nielsen-streaming-charts-for-the-acolyte-week-3/
The Acolyte is the worst performing SW TV show of all time.... and remember we're only getting a season 2 of Andor because it was green-lit at the same time as season 1 (basically they pitched one big story and split it across 2 seasons) - also it is the best written, acted and produced of all the SW shows - so while numbers are low critical acclaim is high.
The Acolyte is the worst performing SW TV show of all time.... and remember we're only getting a season 2 of Andor because it was green-lit at the same time as season 1 (basically they pitched one big story and split it across 2 seasons) - also it is the best written, acted and produced of all the SW shows - so while numbers are low critical acclaim is high.
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It certainly hasn't been a great success, and is a big low for SW, although it's probably safe to say it's one of the top streaming D+ shows at the moment. Remember, there are two sides to this, nonsense- loads of conspiracy theory grifters were encouraging review bombing before they'd even seen the show...
monkey_roo
Sith Lord
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According to these folks it is No. 6 on Disney+ right now: https://flixpatrol.com/top10/disney/
But only just and I'm willing to bet it has little to no staying power so will drop out fast - but more interesting is that it doesn't appear in any top viewed things in any territory?
With the exception of The Bear every other show there is seriously aged, several ended their production run years ago. So if a $180m Flag Ship Production doesn't sit at the top of the tree the folks at Castle Disney are probably pretty unhappy and whatever voices are arguing whatever agenda the only thing Disney really care about is $$$, which means they need shows to drive up subscription and shift toys by the crateful - and there is almost no chance The Acolyte has done either of those two things - now I think about there wasn't even a lego set - when was the last time there was a Disney SW show without Lego? - NEVER.
If a decision on season 2 were purely based on numbers and dollars - then its never going to happen.
As a point of interest I would love to see Acolyte numbers v's Willow numbers?
But only just and I'm willing to bet it has little to no staying power so will drop out fast - but more interesting is that it doesn't appear in any top viewed things in any territory?
With the exception of The Bear every other show there is seriously aged, several ended their production run years ago. So if a $180m Flag Ship Production doesn't sit at the top of the tree the folks at Castle Disney are probably pretty unhappy and whatever voices are arguing whatever agenda the only thing Disney really care about is $$$, which means they need shows to drive up subscription and shift toys by the crateful - and there is almost no chance The Acolyte has done either of those two things - now I think about there wasn't even a lego set - when was the last time there was a Disney SW show without Lego? - NEVER.
If a decision on season 2 were purely based on numbers and dollars - then its never going to happen.
As a point of interest I would love to see Acolyte numbers v's Willow numbers?
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I would like to see the numbers against Willow as well.
There may be a season 2. Kennedy seems to only like green lighting radical identity politics propaganda that divides the fanbase.
There may be a season 2. Kennedy seems to only like green lighting radical identity politics propaganda that divides the fanbase.
Doesn't look good, does it? They need a major rethink. It's a shame, as it had some great elements, felt fresh etc, but ultimately, the story-telling missed the mark for the most part. I do think the extensive toxicity before it's release really damaged it.
Gotta say, I didn't see any 'radical identity politics propaganda' at all.
Gotta say, I didn't see any 'radical identity politics propaganda' at all.
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lejackal
Grand Master
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Attempt two, I got maybe two episodes in. I just don't see the point, if you want a crime drama film the local militia somewhere investigating spice running or something.
A whole Jedi series could just do "I, Jedi", or Exar Kun, or Plaguis (spelling), or Revan or anyone you like.
A whole Jedi series could just do "I, Jedi", or Exar Kun, or Plaguis (spelling), or Revan or anyone you like.
monkey_roo
Sith Lord
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You need to write stories for your fanbase and find ways to bring in new fans - so broadening the story world and including more elements is great - but only where it fits within the narrative - If you go at it the other way around this is where you end up. I don't really feel that the creators here loved SW as a universe above all else and they certainly don't seem to be that aware of it's history.
SW is a fairytale at its heart - Jedi good / Sith bad - and while a certain amount of line-blurring is OK fundamentally that clarity of role within the SW Universe is part of what makes it so good.
The High Republic time period should see the Jedi being the best version of themselves not the worst. As a sorry The Acolyte could have and should have focused on the emergence of the Sith (but not yet the Sith) and maybe show the Jedi as naive more than anything, maybe a bit of arrogance thrown in but that would then have set them up for their fall from grace in the Prequels.
For me if you want to tell a story focusing on peoples rights and expression then set it during the Imperial Reign and show what it was like to live under the thumb then (although Rebels explored some of this already and to an extent so has Andor).
For out and out crime thrillers then look at all the underworld factions (Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, The Hutt's) - it was even rumoured that LucasFilm had finished 50 scripts for a show set in this world prior to the Disney buyout....
But whatever you do, understand the last 40 years of world building before you do it... Whatever people thing of all the other shows the one thing they can all say is that they belong in the SW universe, they look and feel like SW, the good v's evil theme rings true across all of them, and they do manage to bring their own spin on some of that, whether they are good and people like them is a separate thing, but you can't fault them for trying to fit within the universe that they are part of.
SW is a fairytale at its heart - Jedi good / Sith bad - and while a certain amount of line-blurring is OK fundamentally that clarity of role within the SW Universe is part of what makes it so good.
The High Republic time period should see the Jedi being the best version of themselves not the worst. As a sorry The Acolyte could have and should have focused on the emergence of the Sith (but not yet the Sith) and maybe show the Jedi as naive more than anything, maybe a bit of arrogance thrown in but that would then have set them up for their fall from grace in the Prequels.
For me if you want to tell a story focusing on peoples rights and expression then set it during the Imperial Reign and show what it was like to live under the thumb then (although Rebels explored some of this already and to an extent so has Andor).
For out and out crime thrillers then look at all the underworld factions (Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, The Hutt's) - it was even rumoured that LucasFilm had finished 50 scripts for a show set in this world prior to the Disney buyout....
But whatever you do, understand the last 40 years of world building before you do it... Whatever people thing of all the other shows the one thing they can all say is that they belong in the SW universe, they look and feel like SW, the good v's evil theme rings true across all of them, and they do manage to bring their own spin on some of that, whether they are good and people like them is a separate thing, but you can't fault them for trying to fit within the universe that they are part of.
The 'toxicity' was well warranted. The showrunner giggled through interviews about sex, gender and identity giving the impression that this was going to be another propaganda piece from someone who can't get over their sexual urges. Gone is the endless inspiration interviews with Lucas and Co regarding history, art, cinema history, philosophy, allegory, psychology and creative advancements in filmmaking. Instead we got 'R2-D2 is a lesbian', as she stands on the shoulders of incredibly talented artists.
So I wouldn't call it toxic, I'd call it legitimate concern and criticism.
I don't agree with this point mate. I hear this a lot from Lucasfilm execs.
Yes they needed to broaden as you suggest, but they just need to make Star Wars.
Under Lucas it was the most successful franchise, especially with the films. The Clone Wars cartoon was beloved by a new generation, the EU is massively popular.
If they just made Star Wars, new fans would automatically join because it's timeless with global appeal.
If we take away the Lucas cosmetics and characters, what has Disney added?
Rebels was rescued by Lucas era characters. The agentless sequel characters has nothing on original trilogy, prequel characters. All they have brought is Reva, Rose, Rey and Osha. Probably the only examples of exciting new additions in Rey Stevensons character in Ashoka, and perhaps Kylo Ren.
The Disney output has also desecrated what was built before.
Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are losers propped up by a girl boss. Kenobi is a loser propped up by a girl boss. Mando and grogu are derivatives of Lucas characters. Boba Fett is a bureaucrat proper up by a girl boss. Anakins miracle birth and chosen one's destiny is void. Qui-Gon, Plagueis and yoda are prostitutied for click bait and the galaxy is feminine and/or gay.
What an absolute ****ing Disaster.
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How is that different now than before the acquisition?
Maybe I'm at a loss, but women usually make the world go round.
It was different because the characterisation of gender was equal. All had strengths and weakness.
Do women make the world go round?
The majority of the world we live in is constructed by men. Most mechanics and electricians, carpenters, metal workers, technicians, soldiers etc.
I'm think the Lucas approach is a far better message than the cynical, bitter and sexist version portrayed in Disney Star Wars. His work was inclusive and a message that everyone brought value. The world went round because of people working together.
Everyone brings something regardless of pigeon hole identity nonsense.
Disney portrays our male hero's as something that needs to be deconstructed to expose their flaws. Then for a female 'born awesome', to copy and paste our heroes attributes on them without any arc or cost.
There is nothing Campbellian about these characters. They are awesome and always awesome. A terrible message for female empowerment.
I don't see any DNA of Star Wars represented here. Just the cosmetics. Therefore, it isn't Star Wars. It's a Big Mac calling itself fine dining because it happens to be 'food'.
Do women make the world go round?
The majority of the world we live in is constructed by men. Most mechanics and electricians, carpenters, metal workers, technicians, soldiers etc.
I'm think the Lucas approach is a far better message than the cynical, bitter and sexist version portrayed in Disney Star Wars. His work was inclusive and a message that everyone brought value. The world went round because of people working together.
Everyone brings something regardless of pigeon hole identity nonsense.
Disney portrays our male hero's as something that needs to be deconstructed to expose their flaws. Then for a female 'born awesome', to copy and paste our heroes attributes on them without any arc or cost.
There is nothing Campbellian about these characters. They are awesome and always awesome. A terrible message for female empowerment.
I don't see any DNA of Star Wars represented here. Just the cosmetics. Therefore, it isn't Star Wars. It's a Big Mac calling itself fine dining because it happens to be 'food'.
Women do make the majority of purchasing choices though, so there is definitely a conversation for the impact of women and capitalism making the world go round.
I've just typed a long reply, but I really can't be bothered. This stuff is so tedious.
monkey_roo
Sith Lord
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And maybe this is the problem - most of the Internet is wasting it's time arguing about this sort of thing in relation to a SW show - what they are not doing is taking about how great the Show itself was - certainly not insulation to the other stuff.
If you make an amazing show, which amazing characters, story, acting, directing etc. then whatever 'message' is hidden within it becomes organic and natural to the narrative and people don't even notice.
Make better shows...
If you make an amazing show, which amazing characters, story, acting, directing etc. then whatever 'message' is hidden within it becomes organic and natural to the narrative and people don't even notice.
Make better shows...
