Well I'm enjoying it so far watching the 5 th episode later
The Acolyte 4th June, 2024
- Thread starter Cazza
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Some fantastic fight choreography in this one- really good.
Really enjoyed this episode, dark and the villain was really well done, the fight scenes were great, for me this is a great watch, and it's SW on TV again.
monkey_roo
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I'm happy that some folks are enjoying this and I am still watching (so really Disney don't care what I think because they have my number 
) - but for me, this is sooo bad. This weeks action free, dialogue heavy episode just highlights the series' biggest issue - the writing is beyond bad, the character development woeful, and sadly the acting just not engaging (which I am sure is the direction given rather than the talent). Also while I pile on a bit, the actual direction is not great, but the tempo and edit are rubbish, zero tension, zero drama and in some parts when the cut is made at the wrong moment it kills the scene... a lot, and that ending OMG why, what was the point and then why cut from inside the helmet to outside to back again - totally killed what I am guess the director thought would make a killer end shot - which it didn't as there is no reason that Osha would even put that thing on..........
For me the best character has to be the tiny mole like tracker creature - because he never has to wade through the river of excrement that is the dialogue the others have to work with. That said, one positive is the performance from Manny Jacinto as Qimir, he looks like he is having some fun with his role and that shows. that and the fact the show still looks good, you can see where the budget went (and where it didn't).
) - but for me, this is sooo bad. This weeks action free, dialogue heavy episode just highlights the series' biggest issue - the writing is beyond bad, the character development woeful, and sadly the acting just not engaging (which I am sure is the direction given rather than the talent). Also while I pile on a bit, the actual direction is not great, but the tempo and edit are rubbish, zero tension, zero drama and in some parts when the cut is made at the wrong moment it kills the scene... a lot, and that ending OMG why, what was the point and then why cut from inside the helmet to outside to back again - totally killed what I am guess the director thought would make a killer end shot - which it didn't as there is no reason that Osha would even put that thing on..........For me the best character has to be the tiny mole like tracker creature - because he never has to wade through the river of excrement that is the dialogue the others have to work with. That said, one positive is the performance from Manny Jacinto as Qimir, he looks like he is having some fun with his role and that shows. that and the fact the show still looks good, you can see where the budget went (and where it didn't).
I liked this one- thought it was essential to tell this side of the events.
monkey_roo
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I know what they were trying to do with this episode - but for me it was an epic fail, by this point the story, the script, the acting, the directing, the editing are just so bad it's comical - I mean did the director sit and watch the Detectorists (which is amazing) and think - I know, lets have some Jedi doing some metal detecting in a field for no reason???? And How fast did that stone castle catch fire? And again the character arcs made no sense at all none of them, just utter nonsense - which would be fine if it was enjoyable but it really isn't, and judging by the reported viewing figures it hasn't done well at all It's at No.7 on the Neilson Original chart and not even on the overall chart: https://www.nielsen.com/data-center/top-ten/ - which for a $180m flagpole show must be a bit of a disappointment to Disney.
For the first time since Disney took over I am asking myself is having new SW stories better than having no SW stories if this is what they offer up and to be honest I'm not sure.
For the first time since Disney took over I am asking myself is having new SW stories better than having no SW stories if this is what they offer up and to be honest I'm not sure.
lejackal
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I've not revisited since my first attempt at the first episode, I've pretty much avoided reading this thread bar the last post or two.
If Disney had done R1, Solo and made the HTTE trilogy the sequels they'd have made a killing. The EU is generally good enough for casual viewers, it's nailed on for most longer term fans, there's plenty of material and it spans thousands of years. They could still have had mando, strong female characters, boys kissing boys, girls kissing girls, all ages, races etc etc.
Fanboys would still moan, but at least it would be what I wanted
If Disney had done R1, Solo and made the HTTE trilogy the sequels they'd have made a killing. The EU is generally good enough for casual viewers, it's nailed on for most longer term fans, there's plenty of material and it spans thousands of years. They could still have had mando, strong female characters, boys kissing boys, girls kissing girls, all ages, races etc etc.
Fanboys would still moan, but at least it would be what I wanted
monkey_roo
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Killing off the 'Original EU' was a big mistake - I get why they did it, but the problem was and is, those stories are 100 times better than anything they have come up with since, so much so that characters like Thrawn are being bought back.
I get why they did it, draw a line, package it up as Legacy so they can still monetise it and then build their own new Universe with their own agenda.
You are right, there is/was/is more than enough space to have kept the EU and build out shows like the Mando etc. The problem would have been their film strategy would have had to have changed - but I a sure they could have worked it out and I am sure it would have been better than what they made, because the one thing the Old EU did, was respect the characters and their journeys - Lucas was meticulous about overseeing that stuff, single vision etc.
Ah - what could have been. But to be fair, R1 and Solo where a lot of fun, Andor was good, Mando was good (bits of it anyway), Bits of Bad Batch were enjoyable, Visions is great fun, so there has been a lot to enjoy over the last few years.
I get why they did it, draw a line, package it up as Legacy so they can still monetise it and then build their own new Universe with their own agenda.
You are right, there is/was/is more than enough space to have kept the EU and build out shows like the Mando etc. The problem would have been their film strategy would have had to have changed - but I a sure they could have worked it out and I am sure it would have been better than what they made, because the one thing the Old EU did, was respect the characters and their journeys - Lucas was meticulous about overseeing that stuff, single vision etc.
Ah - what could have been. But to be fair, R1 and Solo where a lot of fun, Andor was good, Mando was good (bits of it anyway), Bits of Bad Batch were enjoyable, Visions is great fun, so there has been a lot to enjoy over the last few years.
monkey_roo
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I hate to say it, but The Acolyte feels like a show that is trying to be something to a specific audience, but it really doesn't seem to know what either of those actually are. One of the first things writers talk about is why they tell a story, essentially who they are writing for, and for the most part the answer is always that they write for themselves, things that interest them, that they are passionate about and would want to watch - very rarely do people write something (let alone something good) based on what they think other people will want to watch.
It could be that the team behind The Acolyte really wanted to tell this story this way and it is 100% what they would watch, but I find that hard to believe, which then raises the question of how much studio influence (notes) there were and what audience they were directed towards. For Bad Batch, Mando S1 & S2 and Andor I'm fairly sure the team got a free hand to do whatever they wanted, and it shows, broadly speaking very enjoyable and while Andor is something new to the SW universe (proving you can innovate within Lucas' world) it is still very SW, The Acolyte not so much.
People have still poured a lot into this and that is no mean feat, but sadly for me at any rate it's just not hit the mark.
It could be that the team behind The Acolyte really wanted to tell this story this way and it is 100% what they would watch, but I find that hard to believe, which then raises the question of how much studio influence (notes) there were and what audience they were directed towards. For Bad Batch, Mando S1 & S2 and Andor I'm fairly sure the team got a free hand to do whatever they wanted, and it shows, broadly speaking very enjoyable and while Andor is something new to the SW universe (proving you can innovate within Lucas' world) it is still very SW, The Acolyte not so much.
People have still poured a lot into this and that is no mean feat, but sadly for me at any rate it's just not hit the mark.
Acolyte = Acoshyte! 
So angry with what they are doing to this incredible guiding, entertaining and inspirational world that we have loved for forever.
Its Disney Star Wars which means:
* More homo orientated than hetro
* More feminine than masculine
* Has moral relativism instead of good vs evil
* Body discipline is replaced with body positivity
* Uses performative diversity as virtue signalling
* Is prescriptive rather than mythological
* Preaches rather is allegorical
It's basically like watching someone wearing your dead friends clothes and acting like them.
I find their good intentions diversity agenda to be both racist and misogynistic, so i find its highly offensive. I don't believe in tribalising people into groups on judgments of skin tones and gender. It's completely liberal and leaves the same taste in the mouth as a green environmental Shell Petroleum logo.
The writing is dire and obvious. The dialogue is just exposition, the sets are lit like a children's Christmas pantomime. The acting isn't great, though I don't fault the actors, it does feel like fan film cosplay. Its lore breaking and contains no myth or allegory and hasn't really got much to say of any value.
Its no surprise as the showrunner talked about this as a deconstruction of star wars (again) as she giggled through interviews.
I miss the Lucas interviews about morality, concept and design, inspirations, film history and technical innovation.
This is just the tip of iceberg of thoughts considering the vast majority of Disney output. With the Acolyte, its just a bit easier to assess because the incompetence in storytelling.
These themes are also present in the Sequel Trilogy, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ashoka and season3 of Mandalorian.
I don't find much of this in Rogue One, Andor or the Jedi Fallen Order series. I would assume that these have limited notes and interventions from the Lucasfilm hierarchy and filled the screen with characters rather than virtue signalling props.
Its Disney Star Wars which means:
* More homo orientated than hetro
* More feminine than masculine
* Has moral relativism instead of good vs evil
* Body discipline is replaced with body positivity
* Uses performative diversity as virtue signalling
* Is prescriptive rather than mythological
* Preaches rather is allegorical
It's basically like watching someone wearing your dead friends clothes and acting like them.
I find their good intentions diversity agenda to be both racist and misogynistic, so i find its highly offensive. I don't believe in tribalising people into groups on judgments of skin tones and gender. It's completely liberal and leaves the same taste in the mouth as a green environmental Shell Petroleum logo.
The writing is dire and obvious. The dialogue is just exposition, the sets are lit like a children's Christmas pantomime. The acting isn't great, though I don't fault the actors, it does feel like fan film cosplay. Its lore breaking and contains no myth or allegory and hasn't really got much to say of any value.
Its no surprise as the showrunner talked about this as a deconstruction of star wars (again) as she giggled through interviews.
I miss the Lucas interviews about morality, concept and design, inspirations, film history and technical innovation.
This is just the tip of iceberg of thoughts considering the vast majority of Disney output. With the Acolyte, its just a bit easier to assess because the incompetence in storytelling.
These themes are also present in the Sequel Trilogy, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ashoka and season3 of Mandalorian.
I don't find much of this in Rogue One, Andor or the Jedi Fallen Order series. I would assume that these have limited notes and interventions from the Lucasfilm hierarchy and filled the screen with characters rather than virtue signalling props.
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Last episode tomorrow, and to be fair other than learning the witches possibly created life, it's been very uninspiring and slow, if it's trying to connect the dots to plagious, or palps. Something I wouldn't consider watching again, unlike obi wan, which had you hooked with flashbacks, and the ending 
and Ashoka, for again , Anakin scenes.
and Ashoka, for again , Anakin scenes.
monkey_roo
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For what it is worth, for me, this last episode was actually the most watchable of the series. Sure the acting and script were for rhubarb again (but by this point thats a given) but there were some fun highlights. The fight scenes were good and the use of the lightsabers was cool to see. Overall the threadbare plot gave us all the predictable payoff but for the first time all season there was at least some clarity around character motivation and growth/journey and despite the poor execution of almost everything the overall idea behind the show still holds promise and interest, virgences, two are really one and duality of all that. The little spaceship chase was fun - but that's about it.
Once again the script was just exposition and to quote Mr Ford "You can type this ****, but you can't say it." or really do anything with it... and yet another cameo that rather rips holes in the Phantom Menace - that's two PM characters that had no business being there - but if they where/are and they knew about all this Sith stuff then how come they forgot a few years later..... If a bit more thought had gone into the story and a focus on the rise of the Sith 100 years or so before Phantom then I think a better story would have emerged and certainly one the sought to give us more info and say more about the overall journey to those events - but thats just my view.
Anyway - here endeth the show and with a little luck Disney give it the full Willow treatment and we can all pretend it never happened....
Once again the script was just exposition and to quote Mr Ford "You can type this ****, but you can't say it." or really do anything with it... and yet another cameo that rather rips holes in the Phantom Menace - that's two PM characters that had no business being there - but if they where/are and they knew about all this Sith stuff then how come they forgot a few years later..... If a bit more thought had gone into the story and a focus on the rise of the Sith 100 years or so before Phantom then I think a better story would have emerged and certainly one the sought to give us more info and say more about the overall journey to those events - but thats just my view.
Anyway - here endeth the show and with a little luck Disney give it the full Willow treatment and we can all pretend it never happened....
I love how they use Lucas era props like plagueis, yoda and Qui-Gon for example for 2 seconds so the fans can point and clap like water park circus seal pups. Why not use them?
Take everything think away from what has been exploited from the Lucas era and ask yourself what has Disney added?
Take away, Bo-Katan, Ashoka, Boba Fett, Rancors, Hutts, Tattoine, Luke Skywalker etc…
What's is left?
Reva, Rose, Rey, Mae, Osha.
They covet Lucas Star Wars like a parasite, but when that is stripped away the product is vacuous.
That's why every shill video or fan commentary is cosmetic. "I like it when (insert lightsaber/cute creature etc)". All observations, zero critique.
There's nothing to support when the story is nonsensical, character motives are irrational and the lore is contradictory.
Disney Star Wars for the most part are multi-million dollar cringe induced fan films.
And like fan films, they are just full of wooden actin and dialogue, shallow character motivations, filmed in forests, deserts and beaches with a priority on elaborate lightsaber duels.
We may critique Lucas for the ingredients he chose to put in his meals, but there was no doubt the effort, care and passion was all in an attempt for us to have the best fine dining experience.
Cooperate Star Wars is basically- here is your Big Mac with a rainbow flag and a My Little Pony toy and if you don't like it, your a racist and misogynist.
Guess all of us racists and misogynists forget to be like that to Rogue One, Andor, Mandolorian, House of Dragon, The Boys, Black Panther, Infinity War etc….
I guess we are only racists and misogynists when the quality of storytelling and pillaging of our fandom is questioned.
This is not Star Wars. It's cosmetically Star Wars and than is it.
Take everything think away from what has been exploited from the Lucas era and ask yourself what has Disney added?
Take away, Bo-Katan, Ashoka, Boba Fett, Rancors, Hutts, Tattoine, Luke Skywalker etc…
What's is left?
Reva, Rose, Rey, Mae, Osha.
They covet Lucas Star Wars like a parasite, but when that is stripped away the product is vacuous.
That's why every shill video or fan commentary is cosmetic. "I like it when (insert lightsaber/cute creature etc)". All observations, zero critique.
There's nothing to support when the story is nonsensical, character motives are irrational and the lore is contradictory.
Disney Star Wars for the most part are multi-million dollar cringe induced fan films.
And like fan films, they are just full of wooden actin and dialogue, shallow character motivations, filmed in forests, deserts and beaches with a priority on elaborate lightsaber duels.
We may critique Lucas for the ingredients he chose to put in his meals, but there was no doubt the effort, care and passion was all in an attempt for us to have the best fine dining experience.
Cooperate Star Wars is basically- here is your Big Mac with a rainbow flag and a My Little Pony toy and if you don't like it, your a racist and misogynist.
Guess all of us racists and misogynists forget to be like that to Rogue One, Andor, Mandolorian, House of Dragon, The Boys, Black Panther, Infinity War etc….
I guess we are only racists and misogynists when the quality of storytelling and pillaging of our fandom is questioned.
This is not Star Wars. It's cosmetically Star Wars and than is it.
Attachments
I just didn't like it
Twin30mm
Jedi Knight
Exactly.
I've been saying this since The Last Jedi.
They pull the racist/misogyny card when it suits them. A convenient excuse to deflect from their terrible storytelling and virtue signalling ********.
A very cynical modus operandi, that thankfully is starting to be called out by fans and media alike.
I'm sorry, but if you defend this ****, you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
Pomse2001
Grand Master
Thanks disney for destroying star wars 
The worst star wars series I have ever seen and to me it looks like we will get a season 2 Okay I have no problem that they did go back in time. A long time before the clone wars. But
The sith, is the worst sith I have ever seen
the 2 twins that is not twins or sisters are so bad, could they not have found some others for the parts
jumping back in time with some episodes, I just hate it if they had started with the first and 2nd episode back in time and then moved forward that would have been better.
kung-fu star wars, I was thinking was it a hong hong movie I was watching
The sith and jedi fought so diffrent and faster than in the clone wars, I do not see why they was better fighters 100 years before the clone wars. I can only see why they have become worse fighters in new hope, because nearly all jedi are gone, no good training. But in the clone wars the jedi fighting tech should have been as good or better than they are in this new series
I hope the guy with orange eyes in the cave are the real sith master, because he looks more bad ass than the clown we have seen so far with his ugly mask.
I was also thinking disney have gone to far with all this black lives matters, it was like there was more blacks in that series than there was aliens, white or asian, other lives does also matters not only blacks.
The worst star wars series I have ever seen and to me it looks like we will get a season 2 Okay I have no problem that they did go back in time. A long time before the clone wars. ButThe sith, is the worst sith I have ever seen
the 2 twins that is not twins or sisters are so bad, could they not have found some others for the parts
jumping back in time with some episodes, I just hate it
if they had started with the first and 2nd episode back in time and then moved forward that would have been better.kung-fu star wars, I was thinking was it a hong hong movie I was watching
The sith and jedi fought so diffrent and faster than in the clone wars, I do not see why they was better fighters 100 years before the clone wars. I can only see why they have become worse fighters in new hope, because nearly all jedi are gone, no good training. But in the clone wars the jedi fighting tech should have been as good or better than they are in this new series
I hope the guy with orange eyes in the cave are the real sith master, because he looks more bad ass than the clown we have seen so far with his ugly mask.
I was also thinking disney have gone to far with all this black lives matters, it was like there was more blacks in that series than there was aliens, white or asian, other lives does also matters not only blacks.
Please tread carefully here. People are people. Black Lives Matter means 'remember, black lives matter too'. It doesn't mean 'only black lives matter'.
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I thought it the worse that Disney`s produced. Pathetic and pointless ,other than stating witches created life possibly with a Sith`s help. And that bloody sniffing rodent/dog was annoying, and the lighstaber changing colour...I could go on. What a pile of
I enjoyed it on the whole. The premise, era, story all had a lot of potential, which it unfortunately didn't reach IMHO. A lot of the ideas probably sounded/looked good in preproduction, but didn't turn out so well in reality. I loved a lot of the fight choreography and the sets were great. I liked the way it linked in with all the other eras in some way or another, including EU stuff. I liked most of the characters (some were killed off too soon though!) and I didn't find it too box-tickey.
For me, the main problem was choppy editing and lack of character development/poor scripts, which was exacerbated by the short episode lengths. Everything felt too short and shallow. I would like another series, but a better script and longer, more character-driven episodes would be essential. There's definitely more story to tell here.
Overall, a missed opportunity.
For me, the main problem was choppy editing and lack of character development/poor scripts, which was exacerbated by the short episode lengths. Everything felt too short and shallow. I would like another series, but a better script and longer, more character-driven episodes would be essential. There's definitely more story to tell here.
Overall, a missed opportunity.
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BabyAckbar
Padawan
I really enjoyed the show. Great action and interesting characters and genuinely unexpected events.
Didn't expect it to end that way either.
The fight in episode 7 was awesome.
The end credits of episode 3 and 7 show that some of the witches hold the rank of "ensign".
To the best of my knowledge it has only ever been used in navy terms. Why apply it to a rank in coven? Surely Sister is the better word since the senior witches are Mothers.
Didn't expect it to end that way either.
The fight in episode 7 was awesome.
I don't understand Mae's decision though. I get that she wants Osha to decide her own future but after all that had happened why would they chose to seperate? I get that Osha had tasted the power of the Dark Side and wanted more but giving up her sister? I don't see how Mar could go along with that.
Pretty cool seeing the lightsaber turn red. Wish Lucas had gone through with that in EPISODE III.
Pretty cool seeing the lightsaber turn red. Wish Lucas had gone through with that in EPISODE III.
The end credits of episode 3 and 7 show that some of the witches hold the rank of "ensign".
To the best of my knowledge it has only ever been used in navy terms. Why apply it to a rank in coven? Surely Sister is the better word since the senior witches are Mothers.
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It was a slow start, but the story delivered towards the end.
I think the politics around it are just politics to get people interested in the show. It started off as no one watched, and boom, now it's one of Disney+'s most streamed shows.
I hope we see more of Darth Pelagius the wise!
I think the politics around it are just politics to get people interested in the show. It started off as no one watched, and boom, now it's one of Disney+'s most streamed shows.
I hope we see more of Darth Pelagius the wise!
Can you evidence as one of Disney+ most streamed shows? If its for 2024, then it was up against only one other piece of original content. By episode 4 it had fallen off the Nielsen charts. 75% of Mandolorian viewers did not watch this show according to cosmicbook.news.
There are plenty of fan shill websites pushing it was a big success, prostituting their integrity for the hopes of red carpet invites and Lucasfilm trinkets from Disney.
monkey_roo
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Take or leave this chaps view on the editorial - but I think he does a decent job of comparing the numbers and shows: https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2024-07-19-the-nielsen-streaming-charts-for-the-acolyte-week-3/
The Acolyte is the worst performing SW TV show of all time.... and remember we're only getting a season 2 of Andor because it was green-lit at the same time as season 1 (basically they pitched one big story and split it across 2 seasons) - also it is the best written, acted and produced of all the SW shows - so while numbers are low critical acclaim is high.
https://www.nielsen.com/data-center/top-ten/
The Acolyte is the worst performing SW TV show of all time.... and remember we're only getting a season 2 of Andor because it was green-lit at the same time as season 1 (basically they pitched one big story and split it across 2 seasons) - also it is the best written, acted and produced of all the SW shows - so while numbers are low critical acclaim is high.
https://www.nielsen.com/data-center/top-ten/
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It certainly hasn't been a great success, and is a big low for SW, although it's probably safe to say it's one of the top streaming D+ shows at the moment. Remember, there are two sides to this, nonsense- loads of conspiracy theory grifters were encouraging review bombing before they'd even seen the show...
monkey_roo
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According to these folks it is No. 6 on Disney+ right now: https://flixpatrol.com/top10/disney/
But only just and I'm willing to bet it has little to no staying power so will drop out fast - but more interesting is that it doesn't appear in any top viewed things in any territory?
With the exception of The Bear every other show there is seriously aged, several ended their production run years ago. So if a $180m Flag Ship Production doesn't sit at the top of the tree the folks at Castle Disney are probably pretty unhappy and whatever voices are arguing whatever agenda the only thing Disney really care about is $$$, which means they need shows to drive up subscription and shift toys by the crateful - and there is almost no chance The Acolyte has done either of those two things - now I think about there wasn't even a lego set - when was the last time there was a Disney SW show without Lego? - NEVER.
If a decision on season 2 were purely based on numbers and dollars - then its never going to happen.
As a point of interest I would love to see Acolyte numbers v's Willow numbers?
But only just and I'm willing to bet it has little to no staying power so will drop out fast - but more interesting is that it doesn't appear in any top viewed things in any territory?
With the exception of The Bear every other show there is seriously aged, several ended their production run years ago. So if a $180m Flag Ship Production doesn't sit at the top of the tree the folks at Castle Disney are probably pretty unhappy and whatever voices are arguing whatever agenda the only thing Disney really care about is $$$, which means they need shows to drive up subscription and shift toys by the crateful - and there is almost no chance The Acolyte has done either of those two things - now I think about there wasn't even a lego set - when was the last time there was a Disney SW show without Lego? - NEVER.
If a decision on season 2 were purely based on numbers and dollars - then its never going to happen.
As a point of interest I would love to see Acolyte numbers v's Willow numbers?
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I would like to see the numbers against Willow as well.
There may be a season 2. Kennedy seems to only like green lighting radical identity politics propaganda that divides the fanbase.
There may be a season 2. Kennedy seems to only like green lighting radical identity politics propaganda that divides the fanbase.
