Should U grades be banned!

[Joe]

However, I do understand the quirk of having a figure you know hasn't been played with, as well as the guarantee that the accessories are original.

That for a lot of collectors is a big thing, having the correct and real accessories for your figures can be a minefield when buying loose and it is time consuming to check each one, then find a replacement etc, I guess if AFA never made a mistake you could trust them to grade any loose figure and find a repro, alas they aren't THAT good ALL the time.

I found out in another thread on RS that actually don't offer the "U" grade to all collectibles that they accept to grade, I wonder why?

 

[plantman]

I know Robbie (galactabls) has tons of U grades, he must buy tons of beaters or cheap carded figures for his sales..he must some good money, cant blame him, but i piss myself when i see the prices and think "what idiot is going to pay for that **** when you can buy loose ungraded for £4"

I'm so dillusioned arent i.....maybe we should just rip all ****ing figures off the cards and then maybe the prices would come down...i can feel it boiling inside me :evil:

 

[Joe]

No way am I ripping my figures off the cards! not even Yoda !

 

[plantman]

No way am I ripping my figures off the cards! not even Yoda !

Ha ha, nice one, i dont mind people wanting to get them graded loose if the card is totally ****, but the fact that some people pay idiotic prices for U grades means theat perfectly good figures MOC and great vintage display pieces are being riuned to make profit.

I mean AFA 50-75's MOC are not even looked at so they get ripped off the card for a U90, if i thought i was going to sell my AT-AT driver to someone who was going to U grade the driver and coin and sell the cardback i wouldnt do it.

 

[aussiejames]

The lots of cardbacks where in amazing condition- I kinda collect them. With the time delay I got in first but still didn't get them They are U grade left overs. Anyway I wish people with too much money would throw some my way. My mind boggles to think about the U90 VC jawa and the search for a U95- what the hell!!! But I might come across a few nice 12 back cards :roll:

 

[jaymassive619]

I swear to god U grades are making my ****ing blood boil!

They are destroying the hobby for MOC collectors.

As I have said before they don't collect the figure they collect the
Grade and to be honest they don't enjoy the same hobby as me
In my eyes as i collect MOCs and loose figures not AFA labels.

Seriously though the whole issue is ****ing me right off lads to the point
where I'm really thinking of packing in now because the hobby I love i.e MOC
collecting is be destroyed by greedy dealers / sellers and ther idiots that
collect AFA labels.

 

[plantman]

I swear to god U grades are making my ****ing blood boil!

They are destroying the hobby for MOC collectors.

As I have said before they don't collect the figure they collect the
Grade and to be honest they don't enjoy the same hobby as me
In my eyes as i collect MOCs and loose figures not AFA labels.

Seriously though the whole issue is ****ing me right off lads to the point
where I'm really thinking of packing in now because the hobby I love i.e MOC
collecting is be destroyed by greedy dealers / sellers and ther idiots that
collect AFA labels.

well said mate, have you joined in the RS thread? im getting some backlash for my comments lol

U grades should be removed, and the people that pay £300 for a u90 death star droid are ****ing sad in my eyes

 

[Rudyard]

I swear to god U grades are making my ****ing blood boil!

They are destroying the hobby for MOC collectors.

As I have said before they don't collect the figure they collect the
Grade and to be honest they don't enjoy the same hobby as me
In my eyes as i collect MOCs and loose figures not AFA labels.

Seriously though the whole issue is ****ing me right off lads to the point
where I'm really thinking of packing in now because the hobby I love i.e MOC
collecting is be destroyed by greedy dealers / sellers and ther idiots that
collect AFA labels.

I'm not quite sure how to react to this. On one hand, of course I agree with you (and others) that the mass taking figures off of mid-range cards is not a good thing for the hobby. I was a bit shocked by the condition of the cards illustrated in the RS thread, like others I'm sure.

However, I take umbrage with your comment "idiots that collect AFA labels". As I insinuated earlier in this thread, I have quite a few U figures. For me, its about knowing that the figure has not been played with, drooled over, thrown in a sandpit, whatever. Also I know for sure that the weapons/accessories are genuine. I also have some non-U figures. Certainly most of them are not U90s and I would never pay the kind of prices people are talking about here for them. I have also never submitted anything for grading, nor would I ever. However, its an insult to generalise that U90/85/80 buyers only go for the label and not the toy - inferring that they are in someway inferior collectors. Plenty of people on this forum have loose AFA figs. I'm sure Steve has a U Chewie or too, Coco a U Yoda or two, Inzaman had plenty, as do I...... I certainly don't collect the label, I collect a toy that has been authenticated to be genuine and in good condition, with guaranteed orginal accesories, that I know has not been maltreated in some playground or in some kids filthy bed.

For the record I also collect loose non-graded figures, MOC, mailers and vehicles.

Anyway, I didn't want to rant, just (hopefully) point out that plenty of reasonable folk buy these pieces, and probably get just as much enjoyment out of a loose AFA figure as others would from a baggie or beat-up MOC. We're not all monsters.

 

[jaymassive619]

Andy Im gonna chime in on the RS thread but I want to do it as calmly as I can lol

Ruyard

If you have studied ebay moc sales over the last 12 months like me Andy and
many others havew then you will understand the sheer scale of the damage U grades have done to the hobby already.

A dealer I know (and many of us know) is submiting 200 plus MOC's to the AFA
For U grading every single month!

He told me (from a dealer perspective) unless its a minty 12 20 21 back or a
genuine HTF MOC then he will ship it for U grading evens MOC's in C9+ condition
with clear bubbles. He like many U grade scalpers is aggresively snapping up the
available MOC day in day out.

He is one of a huge number of people who are doing this how long do you honestly
think this can be sustained??

 

[Rudyard]

Well you're of course quite right, that's shocking and very worrying.

However, if this is being done to such an extent, surely the practise should start to die down soon (one would hope) not due to the rarity of cards, but the saturation of afa figures. The fact that U90s command such high prices suggests that they remain rare. The lesser grades - 80s, 85s, U80s, and even many of the U85s don't command such premiums (when you look at what they actually sell for - not what they are advertised at). If U90s didn't sell for such high amounts, surely the mass submissions wouldn't be worthwhile. I would like to think there can't be that many people seeking to collect only U90s, for these huge sums. If they started selling for £30-£40 rather than the £100 or more they currently seem to go for, then it would become far less attractive to continue.

I don't know what the answer is. A ban, maybe. But the problem is surely only caused by folk prepared to spend such large amounts of money - making it worthwhile to make subsmissions.

Ahem! I've had some wine and appear to be rambling now. Anyway, I sincerely hope its not as bad as you make out. I for one will continue to pick up the odd U graded piece if its a figure I want and seems IMO reasonably priced. But, I'd like to think that such a sale price would not make it worthwhile someone submitting stacks of figures on-masse in the hope of striking gold with a few U90s.

Sorry for the waffle. I'll stop now.... :?

 

[plantman]

Im alll for preserving loose figures, but ripping apart a good MOC and selling it for £350 is absolute shite.

BUT...some idiots are paying these prices..i mean WTF is going on.

And while the prices are like this there are sellers who will buy every MOC no matter what condition and rip it apart to sell it for hundreds

a sad but true fact

 

[plantman]

But the problem is surely only caused by folk prepared to spend such large amounts of money - making it worthwhile to make subsmissions.

Exactly right! while there is a value like that on U grades people will cull the MOC's to make money.

 

[Rudyard]

So, assuming that U grades will not be banned outright.... and assuming that most reasonable folk, whether they be U grade collectors or not, recognise that destroying of thousands of MOC/baggies every month (whatever the number is) is damaging the long-term future of the hobby, what is at the heart of the issue and what could be the solution?

Seems to me the problem is the distorted value that the market is currently placing on U90s.

Is the solution to educate / reason with the collecting community on-masse that U90s are just not worth 3 times (or whatever) the value of a C5-8 MOC figure. How could this be done.

Perhaps AFA authentication (of figures with correct accessories) alone (rather than grades) of loose figures is the way to go. AFA could differentiate between U and non-U if it wants, but the numeric grade is stripped... That way all these U90s.... would not exist and would not have any more value than what the significantly more common U85/U80s have. Market saturation would kill the market value. Clearly this isn't in AFAs interests however. A problem indeed.

 

[plantman]

Or the AFA should have the hobbies interest at heart and refuse to U-grade a figure MOC that meets a certain standard?? But i doubt that very much

Hopefully people will just get tired of the inflated prices and you can pick up a U grade for £25 like any normal 90 loose figure

 

[burnsy]

Great discussion lads, loving reading your thoughts

 

[jaymassive619]

Great discussion lads, loving reading your thoughts

Cheers Stu

Ruryard I didn't mean the idiots comment at yourself I'm just passionate about
What is happening. I think your posts have been very interesting and well balanced
When I'm back on the p.c later (on pda at the mo) ill respond to some of the good points
That you raised.

Jay

 

[Rudyard]

Ruryard I didn't mean the idiots comment at yourself I'm just passionate about
What is happening.

No worries mate. I kind of figured that. Its all friendly debate.

I agree with a lot of what you guys have said, and I recognise that the status quo can't keep on like its has been recently, or in 5 years the collecting scene could be very, very different. Everyone has a right to collect and enjoy what they want, which is why its so difficult to find a solution everyone is ok with.

 

[Joe]

Right, after some research here are from what I can gather the up to date figures for all the "U" grades out there :

Year: 1977
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 210

Year: 1978
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 57

Year: 1980
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 173

Year: 1981
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 211

Year: 1982
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 88

Year: 1983
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 511

Year: 1984
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 943

Year: 1985
Company: KENNER
Series: STAR WARS
Title: LOOSE ACTION FIGURE

Amount of "U" grades : 585


Quick tally - Total amount of "U" grades = 2778

Almost approaching (if not there already) 3,000 star wars MOC figures and bagged figures taken out of circulation for the "U" grade.

 

[slim]

to be honest i dont see the point of paying silly money for afa graded items except for the rarer carded figures you really wanted to be sure about ! how can it be that right now just listed on ebay different carded figs at £15 to £20 can be sent to the afa and opened and cased then all of a sudden be worth 4 times that amount ??? these people are destroying this hobby for there own greed SIMPLE MONEY TALKS !

slim

 

[aussiejames]

Is there a difference between an 85 or U85 other than a letter and the death of a MOC? A consumer may not have touched it but half a dozen production workers did. Two people get rich(AFA & a seller), one person gets poor and dozens of collectors cry.