Should live or recently ended eBay auctions be allowed to be outed on SWF

[Joe]

I don't find the JoeY example a good one either just for the reason that collecting bootlegs is always a brutal environment, but also he'd pretty much decided he was having the item at whatever price. So people felt safe bidding up the item knowing he was going to pay whatever it took. Would Jason have done that on the cardbacks, I very much doubt it :lol:

Aren't all areas of collecting competitive? There have certainly been some pretty amazing battles over the years between collectors of all kinds of items, be it production, pre-production or bootlegs. Bootleg collectors tend to be much more vocal about the backstabbing and backdooring though (and perhaps slightly more emotional), especially in public on the forums which makes it look like it's far more cut-throat than any other area of collecting. I know I've seen plenty of nasty people without morals who are only out for themselves every where I've looked in collecting..

I very much agree that no amount of auction outing will make a difference IF someone is bidding to win and I've said the same thing to people on here in private and to Edd too. However,..I don't think those instances are the norm. The Joe Y thing was a pretty unique "can't let this opportunity go" kind of item and he bid accordingly knowing that it was all or nothing, how many auctions do you place insane bids on each month, just to make sure you win? 5? 3? 1? none? I doubt it's many, if any.

Although people will always bid amounts they are comfortable with, ideally they are hoping that they get it for under their maximum bid, because for most people that's their limit and any money saved = more money for more toys..

 

[maxf]

How about:

No current 'standard' ebay auctions to be posted (including the C4 Vader for £10,000).
No finished 'standard' ebay auctions to be posted for 7 days.
BIN items can be posted.

That still gives us the opportunity to share a BIN bargain which you might not want yourself but think someone on SWFUK may, but stops the 'look at my auction' posts as well as some of the backdooring.

Just a thought.

 

[Mr-shifter]

How about:

No current 'standard' ebay auctions to be posted (including the C4 Vader for £10,000).
No finished 'standard' ebay auctions to be posted for 7 days.
BIN items can be posted.

That still gives us the opportunity to share a BIN bargain which you might not want yourself but think someone on SWFUK may, but stops the 'look at my auction' posts as well as some of the backdooring.

Just a thought.

This makes sense (in my opinion, which is just my opinion).

 

[edd_jedi]

Sorry to disagree Joe but this goes back to my original point - nobody is ENTITLED to a bargain. The whole point of an auction is to sell the item to the highest bidder for the seller's benefit, after all it's the seller's item. Do I love getting bargains? Yes! I even said so in my interview on your site. But do I think I deserve a bargain more than the seller deserves the highest price for THEIR item? No I don't.

All the reasons listed in favour of banning discussion of live auctions are purely selfish, simple as that.

 

[Joe]

No problem at all on disagreeing Edd but I still find it hard to believe you can be a bargain hunter if you are so concerned with how much a seller makes out of their item..isn't that contradictory? If you enjoy picking up items under market value how could you go through on a cheap BIN you might come across for example..if you feel it's the sellers right to get the best price possible?

 

[edd_jedi]

Here you go, definition from Wikipedia:

An auction is a process of buying and selling goods or services by offering them up for bid, taking bids, and then selling the item to the highest bidder.

It doesn't say:

Secret sale that only one person knows about, so the item sells for well under fair market value.

 

[edd_jedi]

No problem at all on disagreeing Edd but I still find it hard to believe you can be a bargain hunter if you are so concerned with how much a seller makes out of their item..isn't that contradictory? If you enjoy picking up items under market value how could you go through on a cheap BIN you might come across for example..if you feel it's the sellers right to get the best price possible?

That's why it is a thrill to win something on the cheap - we all know we should have paid more, and feel a little guilty about it (I do anyway.) It's a bit like gambling, there's a chance you might get something cheap but the odds are against you and again you have no right to win.

 

[plantman]

i understand both sides of the argument, but i dont think there should be a ban on ebay auction posting, just maybe some common sense if you know a focus collector might want it, just pass the info on.
We dont have a divine right to be the only bidder on an ebay item, but i wouldnt post anything up that i knew somebody would be gutted to lose.

 

[Joe]

But by your own admission you'll happily share BIN auctions with other collectors that you feel are a good buy or perhaps even on the low side..who are you looking out for in those instances? Surely not the seller otherwise you would message and say "might want to relist that mate, that's worth £80 not £40"..see what I mean?

On one hand you are saying you are happy to share bargains with other collectors but on the other you are saying sellers should get the best price possible when selling and none of us are entitled to a bargain? I'm confused.

It's eBay's job to advertise your auction and it's your job as a seller to research it before you list it there.

 

[edd_jedi]

I'm sure most people on here have done both - if I noticed that you had listed an Uzay as a Kenner figure, I would tell you for sure because I wouldn't want to see a friend lose hundreds of pounds. On the other hand if some random guy was selling it and I knew you collected Uzay's, I'd tell you to buy it! See what I'm getting at? There is no hard and fast, one size fits all rule here. It involves morals and even emotions, and the outcome can depend on either/both.

I'm trying to remove the human aspect from the decision, which means honouring the point of an auction (to sell to the highest bidder.) As you said yourself although many of us are friends here, collecting is very competitive.

 

[plantman]

i either say common sense rule or just ban ebay listings, cant be bothered with friction on the forums, i suppose there will be less harm done by banning it and saving people getting upset that an item on their watch list has gone public....apart from the serveral billion other ebay users

 

[maxf]

The flip side of course is what about outing an auction which looks shady where a member could get ripped off? Im not talking about the £10000 loose figure, but the fake AFA Boba Fett (seen on FB last week). Outing that could save a member some serious problems - so which is the lesser of two evils?

This is genuinely quite a tough issue. Glad its a sensible discussion!

 

[plantman]

maybe send it to the mods first to agree it looks shady?

 

[lee gray]

I am pretty sure if someone knew i was after something badly and they too were after the same item badly and they see a badly worded auction they wouldn't give me a heads up so it would be a fair bidding war.

Unfortunately most people are out for themselves, i know people help eachother out and seen lots of good helpout deals but when it comes down to it, its a dog eat dog world.

I would say i been a decent seller over the years always selling things on the cheap side, mainly to get a quick sale but i have not once had a member help me out.

I actually sold something on ebay 2 weeks ago that i thought was a tad expensive, only 25 quid but it was worth 15 at most so i threw in a loose dengar and paid special delivery just so i didnt feel bad.

 

[Joe]

I'm sure most people on here have done both - if I noticed that you had listed an Uzay as a Kenner figure, I would tell you for sure because I wouldn't want to see a friend lose hundreds of pounds.

And I would do the same for you too. Hopefully if that ever happens you manage to get to me before Walkie hits the BIN button though :lol:

On the other hand if some random guy was selling it and I knew you collected Uzay's, I'd tell you to buy it! See what I'm getting at? There is no hard and fast, one size fits all rule here. It involves morals and even emotions, and the outcome can depend on either/both.

I agree and that's what I do, I make sure auctions of interest end up with those collectors that I personally know are looking for one and when I pass them on I usually say "good luck, I hope nobody else has seen it" because I genuinely want them to get a good deal, same as when I find stuff for good prices from sellers outside of ebay. If I don't know anyone who is looking for something then I just forget about it and move on, I don't out auctions on forums for the simple reason that just as I found it, maybe someone else out there that I don't know yet really wants it has seen it too. Me outing it just so that someone I know on the forum wins with no specific person or collection in mind will naturally hurt other peoples chances of winning said item and while I agree that nobody is entitled to a bargain we are allowed them from time to time.

I'm trying to remove the human aspect from the decision, which means honouring the point of an auction (to sell to the highest bidder.) As you said yourself although many of us are friends here, collecting is very competitive.

It sure is. It's even more competitive when all eyes are watching something too :lol: :wink:

 

[TwistedMetal]

If this vote goes to 'No' does that mean that if there's something on eBay I'm unsure about and I would like an experts opinion wether it's genuine or not how should I post it on the forum? Cause if I post a link or a item number surely I would be breaking the rules? Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but there are alot of comments to look through, I voted 'Yes' simply because some of the auctions that get listed I find them interesting to watch, after 5 days of voting there have only been 77 votes which compared to the amount of bidders on eBay is very little, so me personally I don't see any harm atall about how the way things are, I'm not atall making this comment to rub anybody up the wrong way but I feel it's like going to a sale two hours early so your at the front of the que for first dibs, then on arrival 200 hundred people had arrived three hours early ( if you get my drift ) anyway whichever way it goes I think people will be pissed off

 

[Joe]

Hey Scott, an alternative to posting a link to an auction if you are interested to know if the item is genuine or not is to (as Shawn suggested earlier) save the picture and post that instead of the link. It's a workaround if you don't know who to ask directly and want to get a few different opinions on something you might want to bid on.

 

[TwistedMetal]

Thanks Joe for the quick reply

 

[plantainman]

My 2p worth is this...

I voted for no rules concerning auction outing, here's why...

For me, it boils down to common sense. Before posting a link to a live auction, everyone should ask themselves, "would I be happy if I was bidding on this item to have the link shared with others?"

The people that these proposed rules would be written for, are, for the most part IMO, not going to spend anytime reading forum rules.

I think a polite request post from a Mod would suffice. Something along the lines of, "Out of respect to all forum members, please refrain from posting links to live ebay auctions. For listings that are finished, please refrain from linking until 48 hours have elapsed."
If people choose to still post, so be it, Its everybody's right. I'd rather see a system where the forum is guided, but not policed!

I'm sure North Korea was once a place with no rules or regulations, Just saying.

 

[Joe]

For me, it boils down to common sense. Before posting a link to a live auction, everyone should ask themselves, "would I be happy if I was bidding on this item to have the link shared with others?"

Honestly I would much rather leave it to common sense but we only got here because people weren't using any :lol:

The people that these proposed rules would be written for, are, for the most part IMO, not going to spend anytime reading forum rules.

That's a fair point but even if people weren't using common sense or hadn't read any rules about auction outing, if there was a rule (or a guideline) then at least other members could make them aware of it.

I think a polite request post from a Mod would suffice. Something along the lines of, "Out of respect to all forum members, please refrain from posting links to live ebay auctions. For listings that are finished, please refrain from linking until 48 hours have elapsed."
If people choose to still post, so be it, Its everybody's right. I'd rather see a system where the forum is guided, but not policed!

I don't know if there is much point in asking people to respect others by not outing auctions if in the end they are still allowed to do what they please?

I'm sure North Korea was once a place with no rules or regulations, Just saying.

Yikes, that's even worse than a Philip Wise comparison :lol: but it did give me the opportunity to go find this funny picture to post..

Just need someone to mention Hitler or the Nazi's now and we will have seen it all :mrgreen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law