Should live or recently ended eBay auctions be allowed to be outed on SWF

[Pomse2001]

I mean how many times have this happen that some bad guy have offered more money for an ended auction and got it ? For me this is the first time I have heard about people is doing something like that :shock:

But the compromise from edd sounds great :wink:

Really? First time you've ever heard of this practice?

I can pull up a handful of examples right now if you want proof that it happens haha

Walkies recent Uzay buy: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=342009#p342009

Grant's TIE cardback: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24788&p=336424

Blarc backdooring Scott on RS: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1070443/#post18573195

Can do the same for auction outing creating insane bidding wars too..

Never heard of Joseph Y's black snowtrooper? lol

If you've never been backdoored then you have ZERO clue how it feels and if you had then I bet you would be against outing auctions.

Same for live ones..how many of you people that voted "YES" to outing auctions drop links on the forum to the ones you are bidding on or interested in? Not many I bet :lol: Just doesn't happen, because deep down you are thinking "I hope nobody else has seen this.." and really it doesn't make sense to say "hey guys i'm bidding on this, check it out" opening yourself up to more competition..same thing happens on auctions you aren't bidding on yourself.

Of course everyone loves being tipped off on an auction they hadn't seen but that's not how you have to look at this when you vote :mrgreen:

Yes this is the first time I have heard about this practice and I am shocked Thanks for the links, I will read them when I get the time

Who the **** is Joseph Y ? :?

I have never been backdoored and I agree I do not know how it would fell. But I think I would fell angry and sad.
But I am also sure I would not ask for outing auctions. Because one day I will be the lucky guy to see a link for some cool items that I may win that I would not have found myself, thanks to you guys who always share some links for some great items

I also agree I always hope I will be the only bidder on an auction, I think we all hope that :lol:

But sometimes we also see auctions for some items that we can't afford or we already have but we still want to share the link with you guys in a thread on the forum. Because maybe one of the guys on the forum need such an item and gets lucky to win it

I hope edd's compromise will be the new rule because I will miss our chat and share of info about auctions :wink:

 

[Jez]

I've only been back doored once, or er. :shock: :shock:
The item i won i was really distinctive and the price was awesome considering, it was due to be shipped from the US but it never arrived. Seller went quiet. Bay refunded me.
I've since seen it for sale for an 80% mark up. The item was never outed on here or anywhere to the best of my knowledge. Once again, i don't believe that much goes under the radar nowadays.

 

[Joe]

I was thinking the same thing myself Iain

Guys, i remember RS being like this forum in the early days (2002-2005 or so) then they started introducing rules, which has led to it becoming the cesspit it is. People blame facebook etc, but it is really the people like PW who seem to think they 'own' Star Wars. At least here we can talk bollocks, fall out and lose our temper-but anywhere else you are history. When you start down this route it will cause issues.

We have to understand that no one has any given right to anything. There is also going to be a battle for anything that is desired by many. Many people collect cardbacks, and im sure Jason knows that and accepts it. There is nothing wrong with giving others the heads up as many have done time and time again.

Leave this place as is Edd.

With all due respect Lee (and I do appreciate that the whole thing sucked donkey balls) I can't help but wonder if the fact that you were banned on RS for an outburst in the autograph section has had an impact on your feelings towards forum "rules". In all honesty the ban you received on RS and your feelings towards Philip Wise have nothing to do with SWF asking for input from it's members on the practice of auction outing.

SWF will always be a heck of a lot more relaxed than RS will ever be but that doesn't mean that rules and guidelines aren't still needed, especially as the forum is growing on a daily basis..

The negative comparisons of SWF to RS and it's owners/staff is actually kind of hurtful in a way, especially when those comments are coming from friends. This is not RS, it will never be RS and none of the moderators are the new Philip Wise and co..

Please remember that this poll only came about because some of OUR members recently expressed concerns over auctions being outed on the forum. In the last month there has been a live auction linked on the forum which resulted in a backdoor attempt (winning bidder was a forum member), a recently ended auction linked which upset the winning bidder (also a forum member) and a thread started about a multipack auction through sellersville/ebay that brought up the forums policy on auction outing with some strong opinions on the matter posted.

Believe it or not the moderators here don't just wake up and decide to implement new rules for people to moan about, personally I've got far better things to do with my time than think of ways to rile you guys up with new changes.. :lol:

What we do try to do though is watch what happens on the forum, act on complaints and when we spot a problem or a potential problem, try to come up with something that works for everyone..and if we can't do that on our own then we ask for your input..like on this one.

What frustrating to see is that not everyone fully understands the issue being discussed here and that's kind of important when you vote on something..

To read that people who have already voted are only now (6 pages later) finding out what backdooring actually is and how it's affected collectors..or are only now reading old threads to find out why this vote came about is beyond me.

Just one last thing..(if you are still with me)..not every issue that comes up on SWF is easy for a moderator to be impartial on, depending on their point of view..you might have noticed that from my posts. Sometimes not even the moderators share the same opinions on things but ultimately we have your best interests at heart, there is no other motive when these kinds of discussions arise than to do what's right for SWF and it's members..please remember that.

I'm sure that Edd will take his time to decide on all of this in the coming days/weeks and hopefully whatever guidelines are put in place will work for the majority.

 

[Jez]

Email sent to you Joe mate

 

[lee gray]

I personally dont really gives a monkeys if auctions are outed or not, even if just finished.

 

[Joe]

Why did you bother writing all of this on page 1 then:

I was actually so excited to win something once that i couldnt wait to post i won it sharing ebay link and then i thought crap i should have waited till it was sent out.

I do believe people should do the work for themselves to find something, say for instance a good few years back i was bidding on a trilogo yak face with blaster rifle and was top bidder and someone on RS posted the link asking if it was real or not because of the small bubble and gun, which then obviously garnered interest so now the people who might not have searched for yak face on ebay that week were now also interested in it due to the post.

If you change your opinion more times than some people change their underwear or you are taking part in a thread you don't care about then it's probably best not to bother in the first place.

 

[TwistedMetal]

Have to agree with what Lee Gray says on this, I honestly don't see what all the big deal is about.

 

[lee gray]

I can change my mind if i like and when i like or is that another rule here ?
Although to be fair in this instance i didnt really as you left out this part i said

dont really still have a problem either way.

which is basically the same as I personally dont really gives a monkeys if auctions are outed or not.

I been offered more money for my vlix after i sold it but didn't take the money as not right even thought it was £200 more.

 

[_Lee_]

Hey Joe,

No bud, it wasnt meant in a hurtful way. Im just saying that too many rules will go against the forum. My banning on RS was nowt to do with it. TBH i probably posted on RS less than 30 times this year, which says a lot. I have friends there which is why i was gutted to get banned. PW and some of his mod mongs think they rule the roost, but i know thats absolute bollocks.

 

[_Lee_]

Oh, and why the **** are we posting at midnight. Work in the morning...

 

[mr_palitoy]

Yes, work in the morning.

And I don't get home for at least an hour.

If we can just get rid of the outing of recently finished eBay auctions, that would at least solve my problem, but not the uzay live eBay auction issue.

I think common sense should apply to live auctions. If you see a piece that you know someone collects, send them a PM rather than posting it up for everyone to see.

Difficult in the case where you think it's s fake and want to warn others. Hard to see a way of making a rule to save the uzay backdoor.

Cheers Jason

Cheers Jason

 

[shawn_k]

Just skimmed most of the thread. I'm curious with the split if it is a matter of collectors that have been on the forums longer are opposed as to some of the newer ones. I agree exactly with that Jason posted above in that if it is something you know someone collects, just pm it on. That's how many of my collecting friendships started in the first place even. I just don't understand why you'd want to draw further attention to something preventing a fellow collector from possibly getting a deal on a piece for their collection.

If there's a question about an item, this forum is the easiest of them all by allowing attachments right on a post and these days it is a lot easier to just right click and save an image from eBay as it used to be, so it should be easy to ask a question on something without outing the auction.

 

[Princess Raya]

I've not heard a single good reason for outing a recently finished ebay auction.

Agreed, soon we are going to put a rule in place for completed auctions.

If discussion of live auctions is banned here, people will go elsewhere to discuss vintage SW and that can't be a good thing.

Maybe I'm not reading the same forum as you but I didn't think being able to talk about live eBay auctions was one of the main reasons people posted on SWF? Do you and others really think people would contemplate leaving the forum if they couldn't talk about eBay auctions until after they had ended?

Hi Joe, It wasn't my intention to insinuate ebay auctions were one of people's main reasons for posting on SWF. Nor that anybody would leave over this issue. But re-reading the comment again, I concede it might read like that. I meant that the ebay section here is but one facet of a great forum. If members cannot discuss ebay auctions here, they may take a particular ebay question or discussion elsewhere. And a small piece of the conversation will be lost forever to Darth Zuckerberg.

I'd like to add that I don't necessarily disagree with any of the sentiment for the ban. I wanted to express my opinion that a ban may have unintended consequences and may not achieve the original goal. The outing and backdoor bashing might just come from Zuckerberg and his clone troopers.

One of the many strengths of this forum are the passionate, knowledgable, eloquent and vocal members. If SWF allows inexperienced members to make their mistakes here, they will have the benefit of many wiser members to guide them and prevent future mistakes. Mistakes will be made, but lessons will also be learned and the community as a whole will become stronger.

So respectfully, from a padawan to a grand master:
Decide you must,
how to serve the forum best.
If we ban ebay discussion now,
if we choose the quick and easy path,
save a few backdoors we may,
but forever will it dominate our destiny,
and destroy everything for which you have worked.
The path of knowledge and enlightenment,
more challenging are they,
but the way of SWF this is

 

[jedisearcher]

Having read all this I've changed my mind and I don't think a ban on outing them would be worth much. It's too easy for things to be seen on FB anyway, it's hard to police (fakes etc. should still be highlighted to protect people), and it's confusing (this thread is evidence of that).

I don't find the JoeY example a good one either just for the reason that collecting bootlegs is always a brutal environment, but also he'd pretty much decided he was having the item at whatever price. So people felt safe bidding up the item knowing he was going to pay whatever it took. Would Jason have done that on the cardbacks, I very much doubt it :lol:

Anyway, you win some and you lose some I guess, and the fact that we can't control the rest of the collecting community means why bother trying? I bet it would only be a tiny fraction of posts on here that would be relevant anyway. You win some and you lose some.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Another very shitty practice, bidding up an auction knowing that someone else wants it and will pay more.

Jason

 

[Joe]

"]I can change my mind if i like and when i like or is that another rule here ?
Although to be fair in this instance i didnt really as you left out this part i said

dont really still have a problem either way.

which is basically the same as I personally dont really gives a monkeys if auctions are outed or not.
[/quote]


Lee, I purposely left out that part of your post because you were only talking about one specific type of auction (the huge multipack auction referenced here: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25864#p349045). It's you that's leaving parts out because what you actually said was:

for that multiple auction the other day i think its perfectly fine and dont really still have a problem either way.

I just don't understand why you would take the trouble to post about an instance where an auction you were interested in was outed on a forum by someone who didn't know it was real (resulting in more people being alerted to it), how you almost outed your own auction in excitement but didn't because you were worried about being backdoored while also stating:

I do believe people should do the work for themselves to find something

if now you are saying you don't give a monkeys either way.. :?

 

[Pomse2001]

Having read all this I've changed my mind and I don't think a ban on outing them would be worth much. It's too easy for things to be seen on FB anyway, it's hard to police (fakes etc. should still be highlighted to protect people), and it's confusing (this thread is evidence of that).

I don't find the JoeY example a good one either just for the reason that collecting bootlegs is always a brutal environment, but also he'd pretty much decided he was having the item at whatever price. So people felt safe bidding up the item knowing he was going to pay whatever it took. Would Jason have done that on the cardbacks, I very much doubt it :lol:

Anyway, you win some and you lose some I guess, and the fact that we can't control the rest of the collecting community means why bother trying? I bet it would only be a tiny fraction of posts on here that would be relevant anyway. You win some and you lose some.

I agree, a friend of mine is only on facebook and when he need a new rare variant then he just write it on facebook and then he says to me he get links to auctions and offers from sellers that want to sell him the item he want.

 

[Joe]

Hey Joe,

No bud, it wasnt meant in a hurtful way. Im just saying that too many rules will go against the forum. My banning on RS was nowt to do with it. TBH i probably posted on RS less than 30 times this year, which says a lot. I have friends there which is why i was gutted to get banned. PW and some of his mod mongs think they rule the roost, but i know thats absolute bollocks.

Alright Lee, that's fair enough. Yesterday after reading all the "this place is turning into RS" posts it felt like people were more interested in stirring the pot with random RS comparisons all because of a simple opinion poll that's all. FWIW I think your ban on RS was totally out of order, same thing goes for Joe Y's ban..and all the bans the SWF boys received the other year too - I even tried to talk to the mods to get them unbanned at the time because it was all so petty but they just don't listen over there.

Rest assured this place will never be RS, even if a rule needs to be put in place about auction outing.

 

[Pomse2001]

Hey Joe,

No bud, it wasnt meant in a hurtful way. Im just saying that too many rules will go against the forum. My banning on RS was nowt to do with it. TBH i probably posted on RS less than 30 times this year, which says a lot. I have friends there which is why i was gutted to get banned. PW and some of his mod mongs think they rule the roost, but i know thats absolute bollocks.

Alright Lee, that's fair enough. Yesterday after reading all the "this place is turning into RS" posts it felt like people were more interested in stirring the pot with random RS comparisons all because of a simple opinion poll that's all. FWIW I think your ban on RS was totally out of order, same thing goes for Joe Y's ban..and all the bans the SWF boys received the other year too - I even tried to talk to the mods to get them unbanned at the time because it was all so petty but they just don't listen over there.

Rest assured this place will never be RS, even if a rule needs to be put in place about auction outing.

I am glad this will never be a new RS, I fear this with the rules :wink:

 

[_Lee_]

Hey Joe,

No bud, it wasnt meant in a hurtful way. Im just saying that too many rules will go against the forum. My banning on RS was nowt to do with it. TBH i probably posted on RS less than 30 times this year, which says a lot. I have friends there which is why i was gutted to get banned. PW and some of his mod mongs think they rule the roost, but i know thats absolute bollocks.

Alright Lee, that's fair enough. Yesterday after reading all the "this place is turning into RS" posts it felt like people were more interested in stirring the pot with random RS comparisons all because of a simple opinion poll that's all. FWIW I think your ban on RS was totally out of order, same thing goes for Joe Y's ban..and all the bans the SWF boys received the other year too - I even tried to talk to the mods to get them unbanned at the time because it was all so petty but they just don't listen over there.

Rest assured this place will never be RS, even if a rule needs to be put in place about auction outing.

That's the irony of it, it was myself who asks for Iain,Grant etc to be allowed back-a year later I ge banned