Response to Claims

[ldr]

Thanks for the replies. I've emailed Jeff, so just waiting on a reply.

See what happens!

 

[ldr]

I've had a reply:

 

[TWOFOOT]

That's a bit of a '**** you' kind of response.
So your left with a few options (which will probably all make you out of pocket)
1. Send them for grading and hope they come back with good grades.
2. Sell them as mint loose figures.
3. Leave them in your collection and go into denial.

None are good options.
I feel for you bud.

 

[jayums]

Ignores that you presumably paid a lot more for the baggies than mint loose in the first place.

So the figures are now worth the same or more mint loose than what was paid for them in baggies, yet he still wont accept returns and offer refunds even though he could turn a profit by grading and selling them himself...

I detect ********.

 

[xbomber]

Ridiculous. I'm sure at some point the wrong type of person is going to pop round and hear in person how he's unable to help them.

 

[Section 8]

Surely Steve at UKG has heard of this scam. Why would he U grade them. Surely Steve shouldn't be opening them if he thinks they are legitimate.

 

[ldr]

Yeah bit of a bugger really.

So, can't claim via paypal as its past 180 days. Can't claim with my credit card which is linked to Paypal as paypal is 3rd party so you can't claim under section 75.

Only thing I can do is get them opened and graded.

Steve at UKG knows these are fake, but the figures seem to be mint. So obviously a load of minty figures were put into fake baggies at some point. Probably years back when figures were cheap and plentiful.

 

[subzero]

You still do have 6 years since you bought them to take him to small claims court, even if he cannot pay he'd at least have to arrange a repayment plan to pay you back if he loses. You'd obviously need to provide all your proof and evidence though of your purchases and all your communications.

His financial situation is nothing to do with you so he has no right to tell you that you're out of luck, you still deserve to get the lost money back in one way or another.

Only problem with a claim like this though is it could be made more complicated due to having to prove what your items are worth verses the amount you should be refunded based on what you paid for them, and also trying to prove that he was aware of what he was selling to you.

 

[weasel]

That's a bit of a '**** you' kind of response.
So your left with a few options (which will probably all make you out of pocket)
1. Send them for grading and hope they come back with good grades.
2. Sell them as mint loose figures.
3. Leave them in your collection and go into denial.

None are good options.
I feel for you bud.

Or as subzero says, option four, take the **** to court.
Not sure you're allowed a time limit on refunding people when you sell them fakes. Also, I don't think he contacted all his buyers and told them their items may be fake, so not as if buyers were necessarily aware of his arbitrary time limit. Again, as Subzero says, his financial problems have no impact on whether or not he owes you a refund. They will just affect his ability to pay it back in one go or not. His suggestion you get them U graded is just a "**** off" but worded in such a way that it sounds like he is trying to be helpful while playing the sympathy card. He had no qualms about ******* people over when he sold fakes for years so why should he get any sympathy now.
Tell him you want a full refund or you're taking him to court. Small claims is free.

 

[Grant_C]

How can you 'Ugrade' something that wasn't factory sealed?

 

[subzero]

Before court action is taken you'd need to send him a formal 'letter before action' in the post giving him 14 days to resolve it, here is a guide on what needs to be done. I'm actually in a situation myself right now with somebody for money they owe me, and may need to also take this action...

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/going-to-court/taking-court-action/step-one-write-a-letter-before-action/

 

[edd_jedi]

How can you 'Ugrade' something that wasn't factory sealed?

Yes that's the bit I don't get. Surely a grading company would swerve anything remotely fishy.

 

[theforceuk]

I sent a loose batch to be graded about 10 years ago to AFA. Some were my figures and some were for a friend. One of the figures my friend had he brought of eBay and the seller sent it with the bubble. I sent it to AFA with the bubble wrapped in bubble wrap to protect it and they gave it a Ugrade! It was a B-Wing Pilot.

 

[Frunkstar]

This is not great news for you Lewis, but it is sadly the response I expected knowing the seller & my own comunications with them.

His claims about getting them U graded or even regular graded is a fabrication & outright lie, I spoke directly to Steve @ UKG yesterday just to double check, Steve returned all of Jeff's baggies for reasons I am not at liberty to divulge but suffice to say Jeff is not welcome to send anything in for grading by UKG now & if he is having stuff done there it's via a 3rd party, the figures will obviously not be granted a U grade from a fake baggie FFS! that much is obvious.

Personally with these being a known commodity now & being documented as 100% fake by a grading company & the seller being aware of that fact, it would be wise to inform the police & make a short official statement with them so it has been recorded officially, then if you want to proceed via the court rout you have some info at hand to help with the case, if enough of the affected parties in this all did the same I think a joint claim would be quite a simple case as when everything thats been sold by the seller is totted up we are looking at multiple thousands & with that kind of figure in question I am sure the courts would be looking in to not just financial claims but also a possible fraud investigation.

I really feel for you, I am so sick of giving the bad news about these baggies to collectors.

I do hope you can get some resolve.

 

[momike]

Ukg do not u grade and that aside you can't trust a word that comes out of jeffs mouth as he's proven time and time again

Gutted for you Lewis : (

 

[Ruby2511]

After reading through the thread, I really feel for you Lewis. This Jeff guy sounds a very pleasant person with very high morals.......not :shock:

I agree with the guys, report to the Police, report it as a case of serious fraud, build up a case, get whoever you can Involved, possibly trading standards if he is a trader/ business, I am more than sure that you have more than enough evidence and fellow SWF.uk members who would be willing to give evidence against this parasite in the future.

I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you get the positive outcome you rightly deserve.

Russ

 

[slim]

Holy cow this really is a sad state of affairs now , I was looking adding some baggies and mailers to get my collection started again and now it will be even harder for me , more homework to do ! , Is there a thread with all these fake baggies on it

Shocked :shock:

 

[Michael Sith]

Yep very sad indeed.

There are a number of FB Baggie groups one of which I think is run by Frank, my advice if you are looking to addbaggies/ mailers to your collection then this is the way to go to avoid getting stung! Safe havens with trustworthy collectors as always is the way to go

 

[momike]

Lewis ended up sending those baggies in to ukg......turns out some of the figures had been touched up with visible brush strokes

 

[ldr]

Yeah. Luke was touched up...still sticky even. So cant grade that. So lost pretty much all my money on that one.

 

[Frunkstar]

Yeah. Luke was touched up...still sticky even. So cant grade that. So lost pretty much all my money on that one.

gutted for you lewis, very sorry to here this but sort of expected sadly, paint touch ups again I see, not the first of his baggies to be opened & found to be like this, remember the tri logo fett's that were failed by both AFA & CSA?

Worrying new problem on the horizon now is that Marc Hockly would seem to be selling jeff's stuff for him via Jabbas auction group on facebook :|

I have had my suspicions of this for some time, but with some help we finally I'D'd one of the figures that was in the fake baggies jeff was offering up, it's a rare PBP dark brown hoth rebel with distinct paint over-spray on the back of the head where the straps are, I tried to alert folks to this on the page but pretty much got told to mind my business & it's all ok as the figure is now loose graded, yet it is obviously jeff's not Marc's

I can provide detailed images if anyone is interested (doubtful sadly)

Marc just ignored my images & concerns as he did with the fake red text 2 pack thread here.

The big thing for me is that now Jeff has an avenue to sell all his loose mint & mostly graded figures via that group & Marc with all the funds no doubt going into his pocket rather than being forwarded on to those who are still owed a refund.

This to me is shocking, sadly from what I can tell no one gives a rats ass about it :? :?

 

[theforceuk]

I agree Frank and would like to see photos of the DB HRS. All this seams to have been swept under the carpet.

 

[aussiejames]

Pay close attention to the overspray not just at the headband, but also his arse, hips, boot....

 

[Clarkspie&chips]

Perhaps I don't have all the facts, but can someone please explain exactly what Marc is doing wrong here?

 

[lejackal]

Perhaps I don't have all the facts, but can someone please explain exactly what Marc is doing wrong here?

From what I can make out he is selling figures for Jeff so that Jeff still gets cash from the community whilst still not refunding those people that he sold fakes to. Basically the equivalent of Toni selling unused cardbacks in someone else's cabinet in Snoopers

 

[Clarkspie&chips]

Thanks Carl.
I am in no doubt that the Rebel Soldier is/was Jeffs as
I have seen it in person but there is absolutely no proof that he still owns it. Marc is a well respected dealer and it is perfectly feasible he bought this from Jeff to flip (and made a tidy profit on it by the looks of it).

I am concerned this is becoming a which hunt for anyone connected to Jeff as Frank has now levelled accusations against Marc Hockley twice in the space of a month.
Facts should always be verified before anyone's name is banded about as reputations are far easier to damage than to build up.

 

[TheJabbaWookie]

Thanks Carl.
I am in no doubt that the Rebel Soldier is/was Jeffs as
I have seen it in person but there is absolutely no proof that he still owns it. Marc is a well respected dealer and it is perfectly feasible he bought this from Jeff to flip (and made a tidy profit on it by the looks of it).

I am concerned this is becoming a which hunt for anyone connected to Jeff as Frank has now levelled accusations against Marc Hockley twice in the space of a month.
Facts should always be verified before anyone's name is banded about as reputations are far easier to damage than to build up.

At this present time I feel that the two incidents have to be viewed separately (though perhaps in time this may change).

I am, of course, alarmed, as I'm sure are many others, to hear that Marc Hockley has refused to refund the money in respect of the 2 pack red Snaggletooth / Greedo as there enough red lights to point to it being a fake, and as a long time member of the community and as a respected dealer he should be looking to cement his reputation and do the right thing. I do not have enough knowledge of the subject matter to comment further.

On the other hand at this present time there has not been any evidence put forward to show that the pbp rebel soldier with metallic Bespin Blaster auction on Jabba's palace is anything other than a case of flipping. Yes, it's almost certainly the same figure Jeff was selling in a fake baggie but with no further evidence on the table, as yet, it's impossible for the mods on Jabbas to cancel that auction or ban Marc, and it's hard for me or anybody else to comment either.

I don't know Marc. I don't believe I've ever bought off him. I do know he's well liked and well respected. On the other hand I have the upmost respect for you Frank, and what you've done for the community, time and time again. I hope this can all get resolved. I know you must have more. I think we all need to see it.

 

[peekaygee73]

I've no involvement, axe to grind or side to take in this, but at the root of this there's been a deliberate attempt to deceive that has cost many collectors a lot of money, and the person at the centre of it seems to have absolved himself of any culpability (and moral obligation to refund people) without bothering to provide an explanation of why he feels he can do this.

So, if it's the case that Marc has bought Jeff's stuff and...

Marc is a well respected dealer.

...then I would've expected him to:

• Come on here to put forward his side of the story (I've not seen it here or anywhere else);
• Be very, very careful about what he bought from Jeff and how he sold it on (seems not to be the case with Frank's multipack);
• Had a no-quibble approach when his customers question anything he may've sold on from Jeff's collection. (Again, seems not to be the case with Frank's multipack)

It seems to me that any dealer who doesn't do this is hurting their own reputation. However, from the reaction over on Jabba's it seems many people don't give a **** about this or that Jeff is cashing in without refunding those who have lost out.

 

[momike]

Any money made should be going towards refunding folk, just a thew posts back Lewis was refused a refund because he missed a deadline he was not even aware of.....this whole thing stinks

I wasn't aware that Marc was a dealer and if that's the case his customer service is terrible, he should be refunding frank and it's as simple as that and the buyer beware comment is disgraceful imo, Frank had them looked at by ukg and they refused a grade and I know frank suggested letting CAS look at the pack and Marc didn't want to know......piss poor form

 

[Tarkin's nosehair]

Looks like they're coming out of the bags and into plastic boxes.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/j10e5f6f6/m.html?item=401589701460&hash=item5d809c8b54%3Ag%3ArQQAAOSwq4dbhDAB&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562