Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[mr_palitoy]

This is turning into a proverbial rabbit hole.

In better news, the palitoy guide is coming on leaps and bounds with defining what the valid bubble types are for palitoy cards.

So every cloud...



Jason

 

[Starzone]

Hate to sound like a jerk here.....but sticker residue does not make a genuine factory sealed card.

Back in the early 90s you could quite often buy items from dealers that had their own price stickers attached to the cards, more careful dealers applied price stickers to bubbles and if you were really lucky you got your figure in a comic bag.

I also now predict that we will see mint carded figures damaged slightly and stickers etc applied to try and be passed off as shop bought items.

I have heard people say "Its from a good source that doesn't trace back to Toni" c'mon how do you really know? These have been going round for over 20 years now.

 

[spoons]

Fair points but sticker residue on the back of German cards is still a good pointer - never seen any UK shops or dealers place stickers there, and JC's examples have a square price tag in the upper right back corner

 

[mr_palitoy]

Hate to sound like a jerk here.....but sticker residue does not make a genuine factory sealed card.

Back in the early 90s you could quite often buy items from dealers that had their own price stickers attached to the cards, more careful dealers applied price stickers to bubbles and if you were really lucky you got your figure in a comic bag.

I also now predict that we will see mint carded figures damaged slightly and stickers etc applied to try and be passed off as shop bought items.

I have heard people say "Its from a good source that doesn't trace back to Toni" c'mon how do you really know? These have been going round for over 20 years now.

Fair point Darren, the other thing to consider with Vectis auctions is that with the exception of Lee in October, all most all of their vintage star wars stock comes from childhood collections etc.

cheers Jason

 

[Nick_IoW]

Hate to sound like a jerk here.....but sticker residue does not make a genuine factory sealed card.

Back in the early 90s you could quite often buy items from dealers that had their own price stickers attached to the cards, more careful dealers applied price stickers to bubbles and if you were really lucky you got your figure in a comic bag.

I also now predict that we will see mint carded figures damaged slightly and stickers etc applied to try and be passed off as shop bought items.

I have heard people say "Its from a good source that doesn't trace back to Toni" c'mon how do you really know? These have been going round for over 20 years now.

Easily doable, in my garage is an old price gun and a box of about 30 reels of Tescos price stickers from the 80s for the gun, my mum and dad used to use them when selling at car boots in the 90's. Can bet she wasn't the only one out there that had this crap.

 

[jay4]

Hate to sound like a jerk here.....but sticker residue does not make a genuine factory sealed card.

Back in the early 90s you could quite often buy items from dealers that had their own price stickers attached to the cards, more careful dealers applied price stickers to bubbles and if you were really lucky you got your figure in a comic bag.

I also now predict that we will see mint carded figures damaged slightly and stickers etc applied to try and be passed off as shop bought items.

I have heard people say "Its from a good source that doesn't trace back to Toni" c'mon how do you really know? These have been going round for over 20 years now.

exactly mate and you could just nip down to asda or infact any shop right now or of course your own food cupboards and peel off a few little price stickers put them on the cards wait a couple weeks for residue to attach to the card a bit and peel em back off voila job done price sticker evidence back or front ,bubble or card :| few light scratches bit of edge knocking again job done :| as for vectis are they really that anal they will only ever buy Proven childhood collections? and how is it they know thats the case for fact without having access to a time machine and the ablity to watch your every move :roll: i cant believe if i turned up with a pile of vtg moc they would turn me away if i could not provide full history, surely just about every vtg moc out there could be said to have been part of a childhood collection .and to me those vectis ones look a bit TT made to look otherwise , of course i could be wrong

 

[mr_palitoy]

Hate to sound like a jerk here.....but sticker residue does not make a genuine factory sealed card.

Back in the early 90s you could quite often buy items from dealers that had their own price stickers attached to the cards, more careful dealers applied price stickers to bubbles and if you were really lucky you got your figure in a comic bag.

I also now predict that we will see mint carded figures damaged slightly and stickers etc applied to try and be passed off as shop bought items.

I have heard people say "Its from a good source that doesn't trace back to Toni" c'mon how do you really know? These have been going round for over 20 years now.

exactly mate and you could just nip down to asda or infact any shop right now or of course your own food cupboards and peel off a few little price stickers put them on the cards wait a couple weeks for residue to attach to the card a bit and peel em back off voila job done price sticker evidence back or front ,bubble or card :| few light scratches bit of edge knocking again job done :| as for vectis are they really that anal they will only ever buy Proven childhood collections? and how is it they know thats the case for fact without having access to a time machine and the ablity to watch your every move :roll: i cant believe if i turned up with a pile of vtg moc they would turn me away if i could not provide full history, surely just about every vtg moc out there could be said to have been part of a childhood collection .and to me those vectis ones look a bit TT made to look otherwise , of course i could be wrong

The vectis ones with price sticker residue are fine. The bubble codes match the list that was already produced at the top of this thread.
Toni used 03 bubbles on everything.

cheers Jason

 

[James Simmonds]

Has anyone heard from Sith Smith concerning this whole mess? I would imagine that his collection has been greatly affected by Toni's fakes. I'm surprised that he hasn't joined in the discussion.

James.

 

[Grant_C]

Has anyone heard from Sith Smith concerning this whole mess? I would imagine that his collection has been greatly affected by Toni's fakes. I'm surprised that he hasn't joined in the discussion.

James.

I have on FB.

He is a ninja. He is probably on TT roof as we speak :lol:

 

[jay4]

man im confused with all this jason, theres just too much to take in and keep up with :lol: so are you saying those vectis pictured ones with the 03 blisters the same as you say toni uses on all his are 1 million % fine allthough they have suss 03 blisters, and just on the evidence of them having the same stickers and residue as the other moc there with dfrnt numbered bubbles ? if neither of them o3 blistered ones had the residue or white stickers top left they could easy be TT

 

[Palifan]

I'm not sure when the vectis auction was for those MOC Jason put up, but it would have been before any of this thread came to light so I'm sure TT wouldn't have been selling his with sticker residue.

 

[mr_palitoy]

I'm not sure when the vectis auction was for those MOC Jason put up, but it would have been before any of this thread came to light so I'm sure TT wouldn't have been selling his with sticker residue.

They are from Vectis auctions in 2006.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

man im confused with all this jason, theres just too much to take in and keep up with :lol: so are you saying those vectis pictured ones with the 03 blisters the same as you say toni uses on all his are 1 million % fine allthough they have suss 03 blisters, and just on the evidence of them having the same stickers and residue as the other moc there with dfrnt numbered bubbles ? if neither of them o3 blistered ones had the residue or white stickers top left they could easy be TT

No idea what point you are trying to make here.

The vectis auctions I highlighted are almost all for esb 45b cards that Toni has no used cardbacks for, so how could he have faked them?
The majority also use bubbles he had no supply of so again, how could he have faked them?
There is a TFP with a 13 bubble, but that is the correct bubble number for that figure. Tonis fake uses 03, the only bubble he had access to as far as we know.
The cards all show signs of price sticker residue, Tonis MOCs dont have price stickers on them.
The bubble numbers on the figures matched panasturs list, so the correct bubble numbers for each figure had been used.
The figures were sold at vectis auction in 2006.
Almost all of vectis auctions are from childhood collections etc that can't be Toni contaminated.

What is the problem here?

cheers Jason

 

[Grant_C]

There is a TFP with a 13 bubble, but that is the correct bubble number for that figure. Tonis fake uses 03, the only bubble he had access to as far as we know.

And twin stem.

Almost all of vectis auctions are from childhood collections etc that can't be Toni contaminated.

cheers Jason

Really? Is there evidence for that? It looks like most Vectis auctions come from collectors :?

 

[Grant_C]

There is a TFP with a 13 bubble, but that is the correct bubble number for that figure. Tonis fake uses 03, the only bubble he had access to as far as we know.

And twin stem. Just to be clear. :wink:

Almost all of vectis auctions are from childhood collections etc that can't be Toni contaminated.

cheers Jason

Really? Is there evidence for that? It looks like most Vectis auctions come from collectors :?

 

[mr_palitoy]

There is a TFP with a 13 bubble, but that is the correct bubble number for that figure. Tonis fake uses 03, the only bubble he had access to as far as we know.

And twin stem.

Almost all of vectis auctions are from childhood collections etc that can't be Toni contaminated.

cheers Jason

Really? Is there evidence for that? It looks like most Vectis auctions come from collectors :?

Yes, twin stem too, was talking about single stem bubbles there. Have a twin stem Toni myself.

Specifically talking about their vintage star wars stuff. Lee's in October was one of the few collectors auctions they've done.

cheers

 

[mr_palitoy]

On the subject of numbered bubbles I'm going to move on, I looked those up to try and back up the
bubble numbers panastur quoted in his post, and to get a picture of a proper single stem TFP.
The numbers tallied with panasturs post and I found the picture I was looking for.

cheers Jason

 

[Grant_C]

Are there any examples of 'no stem' TT's?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Are there any examples of 'no stem' TT's?

What is a no stem TT?

cheers Jason

 

[Grant_C]

a bubble with no stems :? :lol: