Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[wbobafett]

Thanks Fernando for posting...that was veeery helpfull and more people should post up their seals this way!!!

I will study those pictures now...hang on!

 

[Richard_H]

It would be a great idea to look for finger prints if anybody had Toni's to compare it to! :lol: But with regard to unidentified prints, dirt, rubs etc, that's a waste of time as we all know genuine sealed figures are usually far from perfect. I've certainly seen finger prints on tape holding weapons inside Kenner bubbles before.

You know what I mean Inspector Clouseau!

 

[Joseph_Y]

The Plot Thickens!

 

[RKW1138]

Here's a blister about ready to pop

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars...ack-MOC-Original-Factory-Sealed-/271369755525

Really struggling to find this bubble style out in the wild or the wide square edged blister used on some Fett's and Lukes.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Here's a blister about ready to pop

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars...ack-MOC-Original-Factory-Sealed-/271369755525

Really struggling to find this bubble style out in the wild or the wide square edged blister used on some Fett's and Lukes.

Just noticed that on 2-1b. The AFA/UKG ones are all wider than one with a shop sticker I was looking at on ebay.

Shop sticker narrow:-

Shiny afa 85 wide:-

Shiny ukg 85% wide:-

Jason

 

[Caswellbot]

The punch is also different is it not? The graded ones are obviously unpunched (Im not commenting on that) but the punch style is different. On the "Wild one" the punch is partially held in place by the perforated section. On the graded examples that looks like it was never there. If it was, you would expect to the remainder of those perforations?

 

[mr_palitoy]

The punch is also different is it not? The graded ones are obviously unpunched (Im not commenting on that) but the punch style is different. On the "Wild one" the punch is partially held in place by the perforated section. On the graded examples that looks like it was never there. If it was, you would expect to the remainder of those perforations?

Yes, the punch is different.

I also notice those little dimples at the bubble edge at the top of the card. Maybe that indicates a factory machine seal?

Jason

 

[spoons]

Dimples on a shop bought example would put me back to square one :roll:

This would also mean that the narrow bubbles may not be repro - I should revise my eBay listing

 

[finestcomics]

Here's a blister about ready to pop

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars...ack-MOC-Original-Factory-Sealed-/271369755525

Really struggling to find this bubble style out in the wild or the wide square edged blister used on some Fett's and Lukes.

Just noticed that on 2-1b. The AFA/UKG ones are all wider than one with a shop sticker I was looking at on ebay.

Shop sticker narrow:-

Shiny afa 85 wide:-

Shiny ukg 85% wide:-

Jason

The blister is also noticeably shorter. Look at the head room on the AFA graded one compared to the eBay one. Also, the bottom edge of the blister doesn't come down as far on the eBay one as it does on the both the graded examples.

From where the bottom edge of the blister stops on the eBay example (right on the bottom of the copyright line), there's got to be a half inch or close to a full inch of difference there, whereas the graded ones touch almost right to the bottom of the cardback.

 

[jay4]

SPOONS thats exactly why continuous claims of thats a 100% a fake TT should not be banded about by anyone in regards to what they deem to be flaws with such certainty and assurity :wink:
the only ones anyone is 100% DEFFO certain of as of now are those with iron marks and those dont even stem from TT but from JJ .
and mr.palitoy maybe im missing something but. ive many genuine shop bought palitoy and kenner cards with little air pockets under the seal so to insist thats another deffinate tell tale of tt cards seems a bit rash to say the least

 

[finestcomics]

Actually, I'm now noticing the UKG one has the head of the droid touching the top, but the feet are suspended so it was probably photgraphed laying flat. The longer height of the blister looks identical to the AFA one.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Just to clarify all 3 2-1bs above are on ebay right now.

I also have an AFA 85 shiny wide:-

And an AFA 90 shiny wide:-

So all Tonis bubbles seem to be wider, the real deal is narrower. (for 2-1b rectangular bubbles)

cheers Jason

 

[finestcomics]

thats exactly why continuous claims of thats a 100% a fake TT should not be banded about by anyone in regards to what they deem to be flaws with such certainty and assurity :wink:
the only ones anyone is certain of as of now are those with iron marks and those dont even stem from TT but from JJ .
for example ive many genuine shop bought palitoy and kenner cards with little air pockets under the seal so to insist thats another deffinate tell tale of tt cards seems a bit rash to say the least

We also need to see the backs of the cards. After seeing Gonk's Hoth Snowtrooper, my suspicions are that the heat seal was done from the back of the card to activate the adhesive coating for the blister.

 

[mr_palitoy]

SPOONS thats exactly why continuous claims of thats a 100% a fake TT should not be banded about by anyone in regards to what they deem to be flaws with such certainty and assurity :wink:
the only ones anyone is 100% DEFFO certain of as of now are those with iron marks and those dont even stem from TT but from JJ .
and mr.palitoy maybe im missing something but. ive many genuine shop bought palitoy and kenner cards with little air pockets under the seal so to insist thats another deffinate tell tale of tt cards seems a bit rash to say the least

The iron marked ones from JJ came from Arthur Bailey. I think it is likely that AB had a go at carding some of the figures himself, made a really bad job of it (see
upside down bubble hothtroppers etc) and then gave up and sold some of those to JJ and everything else on to Toy Toni.

I also have 4 used cardbacks purchased directly from Toni, all with iron marks and bubble imprints showing badly or wonkily attached bubbles that had fallen off.

cheers Jason

 

[RKW1138]

Nice spot with the dimples/holes on the 2-1B, at least it proves that blister type is genuine. Do you think those dark spots are burn marks or have you just boosted the shadow?

I personally feel happy that carded example is the real deal because it's unpunched unlike Toni's and the inclusion of a price sticker but it would be nice to find more examples just to be absolutely sure. It is puzzling though regarding the differences in shape of the punch hole as mentioned earlier.

You wouldn't think it would be so hard to find pictures of old ROTJ Palitoy cards with blisters.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Nice spot with the dimples/holes on the 2-1B, at least it proves that blister type is genuine. Do you think those dark spots are burn marks or have you just boosted the shadow?

I personally feel happy that carded example is the real deal because it's unpunched unlike Toni's and the inclusion of a price sticker but it would be nice to find more examples just to be absolutely sure. It is puzzling though regarding the differences in shape of the punch hole as mentioned earlier.

You wouldn't think it would be so hard to find pictures of old ROTJ Palitoy cards with blisters.

Hard to tell from the photos, I haven't altered the photos in any way.

cheers Jason

 

[jay4]

The iron marked ones from JJ came from Arthur Bailey. I think it is likely that AB had a go at carding some of the figures himself, made a really bad job of it


cheers Jason

hey jason
whos to say jj didnt do these ironed on things himself ? is there any proof it was arthur bailley that i have missed somehwere :?:
othr than jason joiners word which half the internet and starwars colllecting world seems to doubt from what i read .
to me the jurys out on this also
im a sceptic about anything until somethings proved beyond doubt

 

[mr_palitoy]

The iron marked ones from JJ came from Arthur Bailey. I think it is likely that AB had a go at carding some of the figures himself, made a really bad job of it


cheers Jason

hey jason
whos to say jj didnt do these ironed on things himself ? is there any proof it was arthur bailley that i have missed somehwere :?:
othr than jason joiners word which half the internet and starwars colllecting world seems to doubt from what i read .
to me the jurys out on this also
im a sceptic about anything until somethings proved beyond doubt

Think you'll be waiting a long long time for proof beyond doubt, best we can do is probable cause.

I have cards with iron marks from Toni, so either Toni or Arthur or both of them were doing the ironing.

cheers Jason

 

[jay4]

The iron marked ones from JJ came from Arthur Bailey. I think it is likely that AB had a go at carding some of the figures himself, made a really bad job of it


cheers Jason

hey jason
whos to say jj didnt do these ironed on things himself ? is there any proof it was arthur bailley that i have missed somehwere :?:
othr than jason joiners word which half the internet and starwars colllecting world seems to doubt from what i read .
to me the jurys out on this also
im a sceptic about anything until somethings proved beyond doubt

Think you'll be waiting a long long time for proof beyond doubt, best we can do is probable cause.

I have cards with iron marks from Toni, so either Toni or Arthur or both of them were doing the ironing.

cheers Jason

OR toni . arthur & jason :lol: which is plausable

 

[mr_palitoy]

So after looking on google images, all of the 2-1bs out there are shiny wide apart from the price sticker one on ebay,
and this other one I found for sale on brians toys:-

This one has the same narrow bubble and perforation on the punch seen on the example with the price sticker. I think this shows what
the real deal is for this figure, and the rest are Tonis.

cheers Jason

 

[finestcomics]

The ship must have been listing when the person applied that slanted blister. It's unsettling to see that kind of variance on something that seems pretty much a machine-run application of a blister on a cardback.

 

[M4K3R1]

Someone had already posted a store/shop bought german luke farmboy,
with price sticker on it,
with the dimples on the bubble about 50 pages back,
but it was overlooked. PG #125

 

[RKW1138]

That German Luke just showed a dimple on the side of the blister not the same two hole pattern at the top of the blister.

BTW I keep finding the wide blister style used on C-3PO. The only problem is that every example on the planet seem to be pristine. I did find one with a Kaybee price tag but it was only just stuck on so don't know if it's genuine.

Is it normal for the back pack to not be in a plastic bag? I've only seen two C-3PO's which might be genuine and they have the back packs in plastic bags. The Trilogo's appear to use the plastic bags aswell as all Kenner cards but I notice Toni's don't.

 

[M4K3R1]

If you look closer you will see the second dimple a little lower,
on the german luke (not as clear as the top one)
same pattern 2 dimples, one slightlly off line to the other,
on the right side of the bubble, roughlly elbow high.

 

[spoons]

Much as I'd love the dimpled bubbles to be genuine - that slightly peeled kaybee sticker on a mint card looks a bit sus

If there other examples then fair enough, but the way this thread is going every time we think we've found a tell is shown to be real

How long before we see a shop bought wide bubble?

And are any GM cards still suspect?

 

[ace]

OR toni . arthur & jason :lol: which is plausable

i have to respond to this.

jay4 believe whatever you want but please do not call me crocked or a lier as i am nether, i have given a full statement on all this pages back and its gradually coming out and being proven that what i say happened did in fact happn.

i am on here talking to everyone and i have been up front and very clear on EVER point i have brought up and talked about.

whenever i have said ANYTHING i have delivered proof of what i have said in one form or another, i have been cross examined by over 30 people now and have proven my side of what i say happened many times now.

its very easy to just say whatever comes into your mind and repeat it on here , but i am a real person so please do not keep on accusing me of something i have not done, if you want to ask me something i am more than happy to help you or anyone with info i may have.

you may read things from jealous people from my past about me ?, but nothing of what any of them may have said is true in anyway whatsoever, i have not lived a dishonest life and i am a decent person.

so jay4 please the rumour mongering needs to stop and if anyone wants to actually ask me what the truth is i am more than happy to tell it as it is.

jay4 i am not having a go at you in anyway and i hope you understand that , but what you said about me was offensive and it needed to be cleared up, i do not hold a grudge in anyway to anyone so i hope we can move on, and all work together to try to get a definitive list of the affected figures for everyones sake .

yours

Jason

 

[ace]

one other thing the rumour that i eat babes is also mostly not true ;-)

but i do not want to talk about that !!

Jason ;-)

 

[panastur]

So after looking on google images, all of the 2-1bs out there are shiny wide apart from the price sticker one on ebay,
and this other one I found for sale on brians toys:-

This one has the same narrow bubble and perforation on the punch seen on the example with the price sticker. I think this shows what
the real deal is for this figure, and the rest are Tonis.

cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

Just be carefull with these blisters you show.... This carded 2-1B here and the other that's on e-bay are ROJ1 "HN" figures.

¿What does it mean???

This simply means that these "HN" blisters were made (printed and packaged) in the Far-East factory and not in the U.K. by Palitoy.
These HN blisters were shipped in box of 96 pieces already packed.
These 45 back "HN" blisters are easily recognizable from the front with their typical "Dot-cut" punch hole.

That also means that all these JEDI 45 back "HN" blisters with the typical "Dot-cut" punch hole are GENUINE....

M2C...

JC :wink:

 

[mr_palitoy]

So after looking on google images, all of the 2-1bs out there are shiny wide apart from the price sticker one on ebay,
and this other one I found for sale on brians toys:-

This one has the same narrow bubble and perforation on the punch seen on the example with the price sticker. I think this shows what
the real deal is for this figure, and the rest are Tonis.

cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

Just be carefull with these blisters you show.... This carded 2-1B here and the other that's on e-bay are ROJ1 "HN" figures.

¿What does it mean???

This simply means that these "HN" blisters were made (printed and packaged) in the Far-East factory and not in the U.K. by Palitoy.
These HN blisters were shipped in box of 96 pieces already packed.
These 45 back "HN" blisters are easily recognizable from the front with their typical "Dot-cut" punch hole.

That also means that all these JEDI 45 back "HN" blisters with the typical "Dot-cut" punch hole are GENUINE....

M2C...

JC :wink:

Thanks for the info! That's another card I need for my 2-1b focus!

Have also updated my matrix with that card/figure 45CN/2-1B variation.

Guess we're still looking for a shop sold 45C 2-1B MOC!



Jason

 

[geoffbroccoli]

Hi guys,

I've just joined the forum, but have been viewing for a few years now. Just a quick introduction, I've been collecting Star Wars MOC figures since 1985, when I started buying them up from shops as a kid on the cheap, so have a pretty well trained eye for what's legit and what's not. Like everyone else, I'm very alarmed at this latest development which has prompted me to post. I've also bought and sold on ebay, with the same username so may have dealt with some of you!

Anyway, I've got 7 Palitoy figures in my collection, all AFA graded which fit into the affected category. 4 of these I bought as a kid from shop clearance between 1985 and 1990, so the following pics will hopefully help others match theirs as legit. 2 I bought from a guy ex-ebay (so in my questionable pile), and 1 (Luke Hoth) I bought from ToyToni, or 'Marsking' 2 years ago (so very questionable). The first is Hoth Han 65-D, which I hope verifies 'Ironfists' hoth han posting as being fully legit:

*Note the 'twin stem' die seal at the bottom, and note my bad shop sticker removal many a year ago!

Next is my AT AT Commander 65-D. The bubble has very faintly yellowed. The bubble is sealed fully edge to edge, except for the top portion. Not sure if the pics show it but there is some very subtle 'waffling' on the seal only in the bottom left section, over the '1983'.

Ben Kenobi (again had a sticker removed top right, note the embossed cross which was pen on a sticker reducing the price)

*What I have observed from all these figures is that they are generally sealed fully edge to edge. Also which I've not seen mentioned before is a slight raising/breaking of the cardback colour on the right hand inside edge of the bubble - if you're unsure what I mean i'll try to take better pictures.

The next 3 I would appreciate others' advice on:

AT AT DRIVER: ESB 45 Back, has the waffling pattern, and a subtle embossed 03 in the bottom right of the seal:

LUKE BESPIN: 45 back C, not sealed edge to edge, but embossed on the back.

LUKE HOTH: 65 back A, bought from 'Marsking' on ebay, sealed edge to edge, mint figure, embossing on back.

Any help with the above 3 much appreciated. And just to reiterate, has anyone else noticed the colour 'lift' on the right hand inside edge of their known legit figures?

Cheers, Geoff.