Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

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ace said:
skye said:
I was saying the same thing, John.

How about "mod-seals" indicating modern seals of vintage materials.
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i think whatever its called it should explain to the layman what the figures history is , if its vague then people may just think its still an all genuine item ?

V/P vintage parts ?

V/C vintage componentes ?

just a thought ?
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If you don't like 'recards' how about 'T-cards' no need to explain what the T is for

Aren't they essentially modern unlicenced knock-offs. An East Sussex bootleg would cover it ;)
 
mr_palitoy said:
edd_jedi said:
Does anybody know if AFA have acknowledged this yet? There is now 100% concrete proof that at least some of these in circulation are fake.
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AFA/UKG need to give a united front on this. They should be in here, driving this investigation.

They will need to do something with all the Tonis (both ungraded and graded) which are now winging their way for grading/authentication.

(And figure out what to do about the ones that they have already graded)

:o

Jason
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AFA and UKG are getting these printed.

denyeverything_zps57556ac7.jpg


You aren't gonna see them within 100 miles of any of this carnage. Anything graded to date will stay graded, they'll be much more careful grading anything at all on the 'at risk' list in future and life will go on for them.

They can't do anything else (if they want any reputation at the end of this mess).
 
spoons said:
If you don't like 'recards' how about 'T-cards' no need to explain what the T is for

Aren't they essentially modern unlicenced knock-offs. An East Sussex bootleg would cover it ;)
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LOL That's the thing. He's really only guilty, if proven to be, of unlicensed distribution. The parts are all real. From a collector sense it's a lot more but from a business sense just that. In fact, I'm sure I've heard of people taking leftover parts and assembling later to sell (not SW). I think there's even post retail lines of half real and half reproduction parts, something akin to the Frakensteined Lili Ledy figures.

Anybody here a lawyer/solicitor? Aside from collecting laws what actual laws did he break? Many times courts of law do not care much for collectibles. I know one of the shippers, maybe Fed Ex, will buy you a brand new of the same figure (read as modern) if your vintage one breaks in transit. Some don't even care if the package rips as long as the toy is fine. Our world doesn't always compute to them. The right judge may not be able to discern between sealed in the 90s and sealed in the 80s, in which case another angle may need to be pursued.

John
 
bobbybobs said:
skywalker said:
Where the **** is Toni...???

How can he not want to defend himself..??
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I'd say he's taking a well earned holiday on a paradise island spending all of our money. It's not easy being a one man Palitoy MOC factory for 20 years.

The real question is: What island is he on? What country doesn't have an extradition treaty with the UK?
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Does none of the UK collectors live in his neighborhood ?! Did anyone ever picked up a MOC personally from TT ?!
 
A few people live in his area Lafos but I doubt anyone knows where he lives or has been to his house. He does rent some cabinet space in a vintage shop in Brighton where he sells some carded and loose bits.
 
Going back to this idea of these cards being overstock or factory rejects as a result of printing errors, the GM 45 back cards he sells seem to have an area of red print over the ESB logo. Is this also evident on cards that we know were legitimately shop bought in Germany?
 
the only people that would definitely be after him is the taxman if we produced all the sales recipts, and a lot of collectors would want to give him the opportunity to give them their money back face to face.
 
His address is the one that is listed on the companies house record from his business with Arthur. It is also the address that was on his old adverts in the model marts that Jason had with him on sunday. He also goes into the flea market a couple of times a week. I could be round his house in ten minutes if I wanted to. Im not really sure what I would do or say if he answered the door though. I suppose I could take my "Dirty Tonis" round and ask for my money back.
 
I dont know if its on all the 45 back C but everyone I got from Toni had a little red blob right next to chewbaccas arm on the back

domfett_back.JPG
 
Mr-shifter said:
I could be round his house in ten minutes if I wanted to. Im not really sure what I would do or say if he answered the door though. I suppose I could take my "Dirty Tonis" round and ask for my money back.
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If you did go round and peeked in his kitchen window I would expect it to look like this.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 
plantman said:
the only people that would definitely be after him is the taxman if we produced all the sales recipts, and a lot of collectors would want to give him the opportunity to give them their money back face to face.
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Citizens Advice offer a service whereby you lodge your complaint with them (they have experts to advise) before it gets to Trading Standards although you can go to Trading Standards directly. The legislation is bitchin' complicated but surely he's misrepresenting what he's selling in some form or other and it must fall under the Consumer Protection legislation out there.

TS can then get the authorities involved - police, tax etc.

Once the facts are together in a form that we think is quite final, maybe a load of us can put in the same complaint against Toni. The values involved would surely mean the authorities would show some interest.

The good thing is no one would have to organise a solicitor which is obviously expensive and runs the risk of us losing even more cash, but also with the authorities involved they can access information much more efficiently than a collector-led private case against him ever would.

Damages can also be awared if he's breaching some kind of misrepresentation legislation which would be a very positive result.
 
jedisearcher said:
plantman said:
the only people that would definitely be after him is the taxman if we produced all the sales recipts, and a lot of collectors would want to give him the opportunity to give them their money back face to face.
Click to expand...

Citizens Advice offer a service whereby you lodge your complaint with them (they have experts to advise) before it gets to Trading Standards although you can go to Trading Standards directly. The legislation is bitchin' complicated but surely he's misrepresenting what he's selling in some form or other and it must fall under the Consumer Protection legislation out there.

TS can then get the authorities involved - police, tax etc.

Once the facts are together in a form that we think is quite final, maybe a load of us can put in the same complaint against Toni. The values involved would surely mean the authorities would show some interest.

The good thing is no one would have to organise a solicitor which is obviously expensive and runs the risk of us losing even more cash, but also with the authorities involved they can access information much more efficiently than a collector-led private case against him ever would.

Damages can also be awarded if he's breaching some kind of misrepresentation legislation which would be a very positive result.
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Yeah they would chase him if a collective of people showed how much he is making, and we could probably get 100+ people who have receipts of transactions and emails.
 
I was a solicitor in Scotland before I moved to NZ. I have to sit Bar exams to requalify here. I do have a legal view but don't want to publicly post my take on this.
 
Maybe where I work is not as thorough but no way would we bin stuff for a little tiny dot, out of register and wrong colours yes, but a teeny ink splash would pass QA every time.
If the customer accepts it or not is a different story, sometimes it comes back sometimes it doesn't.

We print packaging, but on polythene and polyprop, so a lot different, but anything pulled gets sent to QA and can be there for months before it gets sold to a company for recycling, or sold to the customer at a reduced price if its useable for them.
Back in the day I doubt recycling was done, so maybe they just got chucked in a skip or were simply boxed up and never made it out of the factory until this Arthur fella bought the old stock.

Are the Meccano Jawa's questionable or not? i know Arthur was the source for these too.

So what about the palitoy VC Jawa seal? Does this look iffy? is it the same seal as the GM's?
 
**Delboy75** said:
Maybe where I work is not as thorough but no way would we bin stuff for a little tiny dot, out of register and wrong colours yes, but a teeny ink splash would pass QA every time.
If the customer accepts it or not is a different story, sometimes it comes back sometimes it doesn't.

We print packaging, but on polythene and polyprop, so a lot different, but anything pulled gets sent to QA and can be there for months before it gets sold to a company for recycling, or sold to the customer at a reduced price if its useable for them.
Back in the day I doubt recycling was done, so maybe they just got chucked in a skip or were simply boxed up and never made it out of the factory until this Arthur fella bought the old stock.

Are the Meccano Jawa's questionable or not? i know Arthur was the source for these too.

So what about the palitoy VC Jawa seal? Does this look iffy? is it the same seal as the GM's?
Click to expand...

Hey del, no the seal on the palitoy vcj was fine in my eyes and not like the gm cards. It was very similar/ the same as the one I saw in person that was auctioned by vectis earlier in the year. Different seal to the gm cards. It's virtually the same waffle pattern you might see on a kenner 12 back. I believe all palitoy 12 backs were sealed in this way.

Chris
 
Caswellbot said:
**Delboy75** said:
Maybe where I work is not as thorough but no way would we bin stuff for a little tiny dot, out of register and wrong colours yes, but a teeny ink splash would pass QA every time.
If the customer accepts it or not is a different story, sometimes it comes back sometimes it doesn't.

We print packaging, but on polythene and polyprop, so a lot different, but anything pulled gets sent to QA and can be there for months before it gets sold to a company for recycling, or sold to the customer at a reduced price if its useable for them.
Back in the day I doubt recycling was done, so maybe they just got chucked in a skip or were simply boxed up and never made it out of the factory until this Arthur fella bought the old stock.

Are the Meccano Jawa's questionable or not? i know Arthur was the source for these too.

So what about the palitoy VC Jawa seal? Does this look iffy? is it the same seal as the GM's?
Click to expand...

Hey del, no the seal on the palitoy vcj was fine in my eyes and not like the gm cards. It was very similar/ the same as the one I saw in person that was auctioned by vectis earlier in the year. Different seal to the gm cards. It's virtually the same waffle pattern you might see on a kenner 12 back. I believe all palitoy 12 backs were sealed in this way.

Chris
Click to expand...

Is the last of that type of seal on a Palitoy card the 45a? My 45'a all have a waffle-type seal.
 
Caswellbot said:
**Delboy75** said:
Maybe where I work is not as thorough but no way would we bin stuff for a little tiny dot, out of register and wrong colours yes, but a teeny ink splash would pass QA every time.
If the customer accepts it or not is a different story, sometimes it comes back sometimes it doesn't.

We print packaging, but on polythene and polyprop, so a lot different, but anything pulled gets sent to QA and can be there for months before it gets sold to a company for recycling, or sold to the customer at a reduced price if its useable for them.
Back in the day I doubt recycling was done, so maybe they just got chucked in a skip or were simply boxed up and never made it out of the factory until this Arthur fella bought the old stock.

Are the Meccano Jawa's questionable or not? i know Arthur was the source for these too.

So what about the palitoy VC Jawa seal? Does this look iffy? is it the same seal as the GM's?
Click to expand...

Hey del, no the seal on the palitoy vcj was fine in my eyes and not like the gm cards. It was very similar/ the same as the one I saw in person that was auctioned by vectis earlier in the year. Different seal to the gm cards. It's virtually the same waffle pattern you might see on a kenner 12 back. I believe all palitoy 12 backs were sealed in this way.

Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris, glad they appear genuine.
 
Is this right angle common?

Cheers,[/quote][/quote]

If you're referring to the way the outer edge of the blister doesn't maintain a straight line, that does look odd. I'd imagine the heat sealing method isn't exacting, and that overexposing plastic of this type might cause the plastic to do some funny things.[/quote]

Hi,

that's not quite what i meant...my poor explanation!
- if you compare the tops of the TFP & Luke bubbles the seal on the Luke roughly follows the black line that boarders the blue backer behind the figure. I got my 4yr old to add arrows to the photo to show the area of concern on the TFP.
As mentioned before these are 03 bubbles/Palitoy 45B cards. Anyone else see this on their cards?

 
No worries Del. Just as a point of interest and to correct me previous post slightly, I believe there are a few "slick seal" Palitoy 12 backs out there although they are not commonly found. If my memory serves me correctly, Tigerham had one a few years back.

Either way it holds little bearing over the Palitoy VCJ's in question. They still looked legit to me. Waffle pattern akin to a kenner example and no evidence of tampering or signs that were of concern to me. I believe Jason Mr Palitoy would have also looked at the VCJ that Jason Joiner had so perhaps he can confirm. Palitoy is obviously more his area than mine.
 
spoons said:
Is this right angle common?

Cheers,
Click to expand...
[/quote]

I just checked a few of mine, and they do tend to fall into two types. The key is a waffle sealed ROTJ Kenner AT-ST driver also has a right angled seal, although the gap is larger than these

Although is your angles on only one side? If so that is odd[/quote]

Thanks for checking & some of my Kenner ones do have the right angle...but if possible I would like to compare with other Palitoys.
I guess all 03's would come from the same Palitoy factory press so would leave the same 'footprint'
(The right angle is on both corners)

Someone with more knowledge may be able to correct me on this?
 

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