Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[ace]

It would have to be one hell of a grudge for someone to do that Joe. I guess anything's possible but really after this long? Jason didn't exactly start a thread claiming this, it was dropped in as a more off the cuff comment. Plus reading the comments, the signs are pointing in the other direction at the moment.

I know the signs aren't exactly in Toni's favor. I still hope that they're wrong, for the sake of the entire collecting community more than anything. But, a calculated person that's waited 20 years for revenge isn't going to come in guns a blazing dropping the bomb with a thread of its own, a subtle "ooh, I assumed that everyone knew this" would be the perfect way to present it to be honest. Either way it's created a Hiroshima level blast in the hobby.
I'm a grudge holding motherfucker, so I can see how a calmer person than I would approach this kind of revenge. And as I said, had someone less controversial than Joiner come in with this revelation, I would be less inclined to think the worst of them.

J

Hi Joe and all

i hope that people can see that i cannot win whatever i do or say in this thread now ?

if i do comment and post then some people say stop pushing my point jason .

And when i stop posting people say i should come in and say something ?

There is nothing more i can say that will change anything more .

I am going through boxes here and that takes up a lot of my time looking for something that dose not benefit me in no way what so ever.

I have gotten nothing from any of these apart from grief really.

I will finish this though as i have to now as Toni called me a lier and because of that i will find this dam list and publish it to everyone that wants to see it.

But i want to say this up till Toni responded to this post i really had no issue with him what so ever, i had not even thought about him in years he never crossed my path so there is nothing for me to have a grudge or some revenge over , revenge for what ? i missed some card backs and figures ? big deal it was when they were worth a fraction of what they are now , it was just another deal , a big one i agree but i bought 10 like it that was around 30% of that back then and these were proper carded figures so these in the scheme of things was just another missed deal and nothing more.

in the past i missing 5 sets of Japanese boxed figures one day, and there is the Chewbacca Deniss Fisher header carded plush doll i missed because i forget to get back to Jim Stevenson , star toys Daren Simpson will vouch for that one the thing i did care about , so this deal from 20 years ago its nothing compared to many other deals like it.


Joe you say i may have a grudge well i do but not with Toni i have grudges with people that have crossed me in the past or have created issues for me when it was not needed,

who are they ?

David Oliver yep i am not happy with him , for many reasons but nothing i feel i need to go public on or feel i need to spend time on some sore of idealistic crusade like my farther did , no but really i do not care, if i was felling that way David would be on that list 1st but i relay do not think that way or can be bothered , its only toys guys.

so taik it from me Toni was so off my radar it silly.

so before this thread gos off at another tangent i think you all need to start to gather the real facts as there are all coming clear now as there is so many of you looking now

if you put what i say to one side just for now, as this is my word against his and look at whats left

from out side sources, other dealers memories, and facts and way up the odds.

i also think the most interesting thing and is the death nail has to be the other ebay account , ok dealers have two accounts but its whats being bought that is damming.

look its a big thing to some of you and not others , its not much to me as i never put any of these figures into my collection , i did not even think of the bigger picture till it all kicked off fully.

at the end of the day i think most of you can see there are things amiss here in a big way, with out what i am saying.


also its a fact and the police will say the same thing that the more someone talks the more someone comes unstuck if they are lying.

i have talked and talked on here and i do not need to think things through here as i just say it as it was , so believe me or do not believe me it dose not matter really, but do stop and look at what facts are there, i am not the one with anything to gain or lose in anyway , Toni dose have a lot to lose yet we are here talking yet we here nothing from him in any way.

i have not had a legal letter from Toni and i do not expect one as he knows lots of people out there know what he has been doing, and it is common nonage between most of the traders back then and he knows it.

i came on here to talk a little about my collection the old days and to clear my name on things i have nothing to do with or that have been dramatised out of all proportion and that it nothing more.

The Toni issue is a side track for me and really a wast of my time, time that i have little off because when it comes to mid Jan i will off from here as i have no time to do any of this as my work load kicks in as i run 22 events a year.

I now plan to leave this thread for a bit and if Toni dose come back on here and posts then i may respond ? but i want to spend the limited time i have on here in the other topic i started up where i have shared some old photos from my collection.

and to talk about things that involve me.

when i do fined that list i will publish it in full i have promised this as that is the right thing to do , but i may take some time , the funny thing is a lot of the images i have been putting in line are from these boxes marked history so thats something good that has come out from all this so cool images .

anyway i hope that helps explain my actions on here now and over the last day or so to everyone

Jason

 

[jedisearcher]

Actually I've just realised, both the bubbles with the indents are double stems, so it must be on the bubble, not from the seal.

Someone clever can tell us what this all means

 

[ace]

Just a worrying thought but does this call in to question all MOCs from the UK? I mean this might not be the first time unused card backs and bubbles have been obtained from the factory. What about all the old SW wave or ESB wave cards? Between every wave there would likely be left over stock of unused cards right?

There is only one load of stock from the factory when it closed as far as I am aware. JJ or some of the older collectors may have a better idea.

Jason

that is correct Jason i only ever herd of one lost of cards bubbles coming up over that time , loose figures yes there was many other lots offered but not card backs

happy to help in info if i am ask j

 

[escapist]

Doing a bit of digging on RS

From a 2010 thread discussing unused Palitoy cardbacks : http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1045737-2/

I purchased 4 or 5 of the Unused Palitoy backers from ToyToni at the Atlantique City Show. I was under the impression(maybe he told me?) they came from the same source as all of his minty carded stuff. I then later bought some more from him through the mail. I think I ended up with 8 different with 3-5 doubles and maybe a triple. Which ones were they? I do not remember. One day, I will fire up the old computer that has some pics on it and we will see which ones I had. He told me he had more of them, but I stopped buying them because they were $100 a piece and I felt they weren't actually worth that at the time. Proof cards were on a downswing at the time. I contacted him a year or 2 later and he said he had no more. Every year or 2, I shoot him another email making sure he didn't find more. I sold all the doubles to friends and at shows, but held on to one of each. Then got bored with them, got them graded, and sold them on ebay. Wish I had more info for ya.
Thanks,
Andy

 

[tiefighterboy]

What a bunch of rambling....My head hurts.

 

[jedisearcher]

Just a worrying thought but does this call in to question all MOCs from the UK? I mean this might not be the first time unused card backs and bubbles have been obtained from the factory. What about all the old SW wave or ESB wave cards? Between every wave there would likely be left over stock of unused cards right?

There is only one load of stock from the factory when it closed as far as I am aware. JJ or some of the older collectors may have a better idea.

Jason

that is correct Jason i only ever herd of one lost of cards bubbles coming up over that time , loose figures yes there was many other lots offered but not card backs

happy to help in info if i am ask j

JJ a quick question while you're on. What are your thoughts on how the newly made cards are being sealed/have bee sealed?

Whatever is going on, it's gonna take a big piece of kit to pressure/heat seal those things. If you've got no idea then no problem.

 

[escapist]

Doing a bit of digging on RS

From a 2010 thread discussing unused Palitoy cardbacks : http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1045737-2/

I purchased 4 or 5 of the Unused Palitoy backers from ToyToni at the Atlantique City Show. I was under the impression(maybe he told me?) they came from the same source as all of his minty carded stuff. I then later bought some more from him through the mail. I think I ended up with 8 different with 3-5 doubles and maybe a triple. Which ones were they? I do not remember. One day, I will fire up the old computer that has some pics on it and we will see which ones I had. He told me he had more of them, but I stopped buying them because they were $100 a piece and I felt they weren't actually worth that at the time. Proof cards were on a downswing at the time. I contacted him a year or 2 later and he said he had no more. Every year or 2, I shoot him another email making sure he didn't find more. I sold all the doubles to friends and at shows, but held on to one of each. Then got bored with them, got them graded, and sold them on ebay. Wish I had more info for ya.
Thanks,
Andy

Sorry to quote my own post, but when you read this post, from three years ago, in line with this portion of Toni's statement from page 18 (so long ago!), it certainly doesn't appear to be quite right.

I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised I never saw any or was offered any samples from him . I ended up buying quite large quantities of carded figures from him which were a mix of Kenner ,POTF,Palitoy.,german General Mills and Trilogo non of which came in trade boxes - in those days there wasn't that much interest in carded figures let alone in the outer boxes.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Doing a bit of digging on RS

From a 2010 thread discussing unused Palitoy cardbacks : http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1045737-2/

I purchased 4 or 5 of the Unused Palitoy backers from ToyToni at the Atlantique City Show. I was under the impression(maybe he told me?) they came from the same source as all of his minty carded stuff. I then later bought some more from him through the mail. I think I ended up with 8 different with 3-5 doubles and maybe a triple. Which ones were they? I do not remember. One day, I will fire up the old computer that has some pics on it and we will see which ones I had. He told me he had more of them, but I stopped buying them because they were $100 a piece and I felt they weren't actually worth that at the time. Proof cards were on a downswing at the time. I contacted him a year or 2 later and he said he had no more. Every year or 2, I shoot him another email making sure he didn't find more. I sold all the doubles to friends and at shows, but held on to one of each. Then got bored with them, got them graded, and sold them on ebay. Wish I had more info for ya.
Thanks,
Andy

Sorry to quote my own post, but when you read this post, from three years ago, in line with this portion of Toni's statement from page 18 (so long ago!), it certainly doesn't appear to be quite right.

I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised I never saw any or was offered any samples from him . I ended up buying quite large quantities of carded figures from him which were a mix of Kenner ,POTF,Palitoy.,german General Mills and Trilogo non of which came in trade boxes - in those days there wasn't that much interest in carded figures let alone in the outer boxes.

Other things I found on that RS thread:-

They are unpunched, ie no hole at the top at all, so would need one adding if reassembled later.
There were 50 per character quoted on that thread.
Toni had them and sold them

There is a picture of 1 in the archive (far left):-

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=73009

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Found another rebelscum thread:-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1010696/

This one has a picture of one from Mattias:-

It looks like the punch is there already.



Jason

 

[Caswellbot]

So now we have a statement from Toni saying that he never had an unused cardbacks and a collector on RS claiming he bought 5 from him at a show in Atlantique City? Well something isn't right there, that's for sure.

 

[itfciain]

So now we have a statement from Toni saying that he never had an unused cardbacks and a collector on RS claiming he bought 5 from him at a show in Atlantique City? Well something isn't right there, that's for sure.

Toni's silence on this whole thing is the biggest concern for those still hoping that this isn't true. But obviously things like the above contradiction suggest that this could be the reason for the lack of response

 

[David Tree]

Whatever is going on, it's gonna take a big piece of kit to pressure/heat seal those things. If you've got no idea then no problem.

With Farthest From and work going on, trying to pull info together has been difficult, however I can say where a lot of folk keep referencing machinery needed to heat seal, it's not difficult. Essentially it can be done with a standard heat press. Each press base is removable and has a padded plate depending on what what you pressing on to (t-shirts etc). Create a modified plate with a cavity for the card to sit within and a further recess for the bubble. Bubble in first, card on top, pull down the iron (heat comes from behind) and press down. You experiment with time and temperature to get it right, too short bubble falls off, too long bubble turns to glue or singe the card. Lift up iron, take out card and the room temperature is enough to cool it instantly, just like vinyl plastic on cotton fabric.

 

[mr_palitoy]

So now we have a statement from Toni saying that he never had an unused cardbacks and a collector on RS claiming he bought 5 from him at a show in Atlantique City? Well something isn't right there, that's for sure.

"I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised I never saw any or was offered any samples from him"

He said he never bought any from Arthur rather than not having any at all.

Jason

 

[escapist]

Found another rebelscum thread:-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1010696/

This one has a picture of one from Mattias:-

It looks like the punch is there already.



Jason

Again draw your own conclusion but my trawl of Toni's ebay feedback suggested he has sold 9 'u.p' (unpunched?) Palitoy ROTJ C3PO MOC's between 2011 and 2012.

And Jason, you said he purchased mint C3PO's with removable limbs on his other account? Any idea when and how many?

 

[escapist]

So now we have a statement from Toni saying that he never had an unused cardbacks and a collector on RS claiming he bought 5 from him at a show in Atlantique City? Well something isn't right there, that's for sure.

"I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised I never saw any or was offered any samples from him"

He said he never bought any from Arthur rather than not having any at all.

Jason

But he also said "I ended up buying quite large quantities of carded figures from him which were a mix of Kenner ,POTF,Palitoy.,german General Mills and Trilogo non of which came in trade boxes - in those days there wasn't that much interest in carded figures let alone in the outer boxes."

and the poster on RS said: "I purchased 4 or 5 of the Unused Palitoy backers from ToyToni at the Atlantique City Show. I was under the impression(maybe he told me?) they came from the same source as all of his minty carded stuff."

Of course, this is all really vague but it does also kinda go together.... But we can quote anything I guess and make it sound like anything else

 

[Jez]

Toni, if you come along to FFIV and do an impromptu presentation and bring your stock with you, I'll cover the cost of your stall. Fordingbridge isn't that far away from you.

Come on dude, even I'm getting slowly convinced that things aren't right.
Please prove them wrong.
I'll even offer you a lift if you like?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Toni, if you come along to FFIV and do an impromptu presentation and bring your stock with you, I'll cover the cost of your stall. Fordingbridge isn't that far away from you.

Come on dude, even I'm getting slowly convinced that things aren't right.
Please prove them wrong.
I'll even offer you a lift if you like?

A quick lesson in how to heat seal a MOC?

I'll get me coat....

:shock:

Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

A better shot of the/a skiff guard:-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1103294/

(It's the one in the middle for noobs out there)



Jason

 

[_Lee_]

Doing a bit of digging on RS

From a 2010 thread discussing unused Palitoy cardbacks : http://forum.rebelscum

There is a picture of 1 in the archive (far left):-

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=73009

cheers Jason

Jason.

That was a group shot of my old Lando Skiff focus.The Palitoy card was unpunched,but the punch was present..There was a punch on all the Palitoy unused backers floating around.I never saw any unpunched example.

Lee

 

[_Lee_]

What i meant is that all the backers had punches,that were unpunched