Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[plantman]

I went to collect mine in person, more for the fact that I was handing over nearly 3k. I remember him saying that he had a contact in Germany where he could source more.

he buys minty figures that are the exact ones he sells moc.....

...You really couldnt make this **** up, he can "source more" from germany LOL

 

[Caswellbot]

I was kind of thinking that too Andy :?

 

[escapist]

Can anyone PM me his alternate ebay name?? Though I don't know why its considered top secret!!

 

[edd_jedi]

So can anyone explain the lack of flecking behind the seals and bubbles if they are made recently? Obviously ive seen it on quite a few Toni mocs and they're all the same, if there's flecking on the card its not behind the bubbles and seals, that goes for single and double stem bubbles.

Even if he made them in 1993, 10 years after Palitoy did, that was still 20 years ago so would explain some age/storage related wear.

It could also be damage caused by the heating/sealing process potentially?

 

[jimbody1]

What about the fact they all have exactly the same wave? I think we've already established that the 03 bubble type are probably originally factory sealed.

 

[Joe]

Back when I used to chat regularly with Jay he once told me that he suspected that Toni had a contact in Europe and that was where his figures were coming from, I remember him telling me that he was desperately trying to find out who it was so he could cut out the middle man and buy direct (and hopefully cheaper) although he never did find out if there was another source for the figures..

Come to think of it, I am pretty sure that idea came about simply because of the delay he experienced when getting figures from Toni. Typically you would ask Toni if he had a certain figure, if he didn't he would say he could source it and then get back to you at a later date. Other times you would order something and not hear back for a while and then it would finally turn up after a couple of weeks. We both kind of put it down to him getting them from someone else and that was the reason for the delay. I can honestly say I never thought for a moment that the delay might have been because figures were being made to order and I do still hope that is not the case.

Sorry, there wasn't much point in this post as it adds nothing to the debate, I just read Jim's post about the German contact and remembered this. Kind of funny to think that even when we were trying hard to work out what the deal was with Toni and his seemingly endless supply of factory fresh figures, we never suspected anything like this. Some things you just accept as the truth I suppose.

A post from Toni that could stop all this madness would be very welcome right about now..

 

[jimbody1]

Personally im still in favour of innocent until proven guilty or at least beyond reasonable doubt. I think that most people have however already decided otherwise. Its a shame really I thought the community was beyond guilt by hearsay. I know there seems to be a lot of circumstantial evidence the sale of unused cards etc (not that Toni said he got them from Arthur, just from someone he got moc's from which he no doubt had more than just one source of, hes been in the game a long time ). Theres also the evidence that's there for you to see, flecked cards with no evidence of it behind bubbles or seals indicating (to me anyway) that the figures have been on the cards for a while at least, the same wave to each card regardless of bubble type (im sure there would be some difference if they was home made especially as we seem to have established some are indeed genuine). To me there's still a lot needs answering but there we go.

 

[lee gray]

I am not sure Toni has bubbles to suit consumer needs, When I asked him over 3 years back now if he had any more H bubble light blue fetts, he told me no, he only had them with the bigger bubbles left now so if he had a ton of H bubbles in stock he would have said yes too.

 

[jedisearcher]

Just for the record, although I never checked for dimples closely on the top of the bubbles, I often noticed a dimple on the side of the bubble half way down and in the middle if thats any use ?

Lee that's spot on. I have it on two of mine, pics are awhile back in this thread - waist high, crescent shaped, about 3mm or so.

They are only on the double stem bubbles for me, one on a han original, no English text on the back, and one on a leia bespin, with English test on the back.

I'm convinced it's a fault on the stash of bubbles he's got. I'd love to find it on some palitoy bubbles as well just to confirm it.

Where are we at here now? Are people still convinced both the GM no text and text are post factory carded.

Only reason I ask is that the English texts ones really aren't perfect, mine have tiny scrapes and flaws on the card, they look handled, still very good but nothing like as perfect as the super minty no text versions. They look like they've been on a real production line, whilst the no text ones look handmade. I still doubt both cos of the bubble fault.

Do people still have doubts as to the English text versions? The thread moves so fast it's hard to keep up

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Sorry for the noob question guys but what a "flecked card"?

 

[Joe]

Can anyone PM me his alternate ebay name?? Though I don't know why its considered top secret!!

I'll pm it to you. It's not exactly top secret, I just felt all the information that could be obtained from it already had been (it's been confirmed it's him, it's been confirmed he has been buying mint figures and those figures have all been listed). But... - PM coming.

 

[jimbody1]

Check out the Yoda on the previous page, its obvious, you can't miss it.

 

[olisuds]

Has Tony ever sold substantial amounts of loose figures?

Yes innocent until proven guilty but with the circumstantial evidence like the large number of loose mint figures he has bought compared to the carded ones he is selling I think you'd be mad to buy any MOCs of him right now.

I don't expect he will come forward. He's always been a man of few words. I imagine he's hiding the evidence right now and trying to cover things up. His buying account is now private with none of the feedback showing.

He has also changed his eBay ID 30 times! Not the behaviour of a man with nothing to hide.

I've made up my mind on the matter

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Check out the Yoda on the previous page, its obvious, you can't miss it.

Thanks Jim!

 

[olisuds]

Has anyone bought MOCs off him in the last month? If so can you please send me a close up picture of the figure?

 

[lee gray]

if you check this picture here you can see at the bottom left corner of the bubble theres a white line where its started to pull away from the card and again if u look closely opposite his arm at the very edge of the bubble theres a small bit of lifting flaking

 

[Caswellbot]

Sorry for the noob question guys but what a "flecked card"?

It's not really a specialist term liam but I think Jim is referring to some areas of litho loss caused by minor wear or a lesser quality print. Correct me if I'm wrong Jim?

Oli - is that true about 30 I'd changes on Toni's ebay account? Hoe can that be found out? Can it be found out by going on ebay?

 

[Caswellbot]

if you check this picture here you can see at the bottom left corner of the bubble theres a white line where its started to pull away from the card and again if u look closely opposite his arm at the very edge of the bubble theres a small bit of lifting flaking

That's interesting lee. Can you get an even better pic mate. Sorry to be a pain. Also is there a small/ tiny indent on the tight hand side of the card similar to the images earlier in this thread. It may be just the pic making it look like that .

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Sorry for the noob question guys but what a "flecked card"?

It's not really a specialist term liam but I think Jim is referring to some areas of litho loss caused by minor wear or a lesser quality print. Correct me if I'm wrong Jim?

Oli - is that true about 30 I'd changes on Toni's ebay account? Hoe can that be found out? Can it be found out by going on ebay?

Thanks Chris!

 

[olisuds]

Sorry for the noob question guys but what a "flecked card"?

It's not really a specialist term liam but I think Jim is referring to some areas of litho loss caused by minor wear or a lesser quality print. Correct me if I'm wrong Jim?

Oli - is that true about 30 I'd changes on Toni's ebay account? Hoe can that be found out? Can it be found out by going on ebay?

Yep. On his eBay account that he uses to buy loose figures. You can't hide the eBay ID history.

 

[Caswellbot]

That's mad oli. If that is the case and he has now privatised his listings then I think my mind is pretty much made up on this matter.

 

[olisuds]

Same here mate.

Would love to get hold of some close up pics of the MOCs he has sold in the last 30 days to ID against the close up pictures of the figures he bought. Then we can get some closure on this debate.

JJs list would clear up which stock is effected. But i don't think we're going to hear back on that or hear from Toni again.

 

[lee gray]

unfortunately thats an old pic, cant recall seeing a dent on card, heres one that i had graded, you can see how the bubble looks glued on especially noticeble on the top

 

[olisuds]

Anything in last 30 days? Interested in pics of figure rather than card or bubble!

 

[escapist]

Cheers Joe for PM'ing me. Unfortunately its been made private and I can't see anything purchased or whether any feedback was left

I did find one bit of negative feedback he left last year for a Tie Fighter Pilot loose figure....

"nightmare- c8 figure listed as mint off card then forced by ebay to refund"

That is a nightmare..... if you wanted to stick it back on the card..... Jokes....

 

[olisuds]

Try Goofbay mate!

 

[escapist]

Try Goofbay mate!

had a go and spotted one figure he actually bought (a U Grade Stormie) but aside from that, can only see figures he bid on but didn't appear to win. All minty U grades or listed as C10/9.5.....

 

[lee gray]

I have always thought toni undergrades his figures, his carded c8.5 figures usually get 90 grades from AFA while other sellers who sell their stuff at c9.5 usually are only worthy of 85 grades

 

[olisuds]

Try Goofbay mate!

had a go and spotted one figure he actually bought (a U Grade Stormie) but aside from that, can only see figures he bid on but didn't appear to win. All minty U grades or listed as C10/9.5.....

They're all BINs so if he bid he won.

 

[spoons]

I got a reply from Jabba the Nutt regarding my Bossk - a non collector previously owned it, and there is no direct Toni link

I think I've made up my mind on this thing. The way I see it Toni bought a load of unused cardbacks and bubbles back in the day, but also bought genuine factory sealed cards.

I guess that once the bulk of the genuine cards were sold he started his own production run, these days kept up by a good supply of U grade figs.

It seems likely that any cards with clear seals and odd indents on the bubbles are Toni's work, but there is no proof and unless someone starts legal proceedings there is unlikely to be any.

I've no idea how to tell if anything other than ESB 45 backs are legit - but if your ESB pal or GM card has an 03 bubble and a waffle seal it should be good

I'm now done and I'm off to sell my Stormtrooper to Joe Y