Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Joe]

This has me worried. I have two mint German ESB figures which I bought from Toytoni. Does this mean the legitimacy of all mint Palitoy Carded figures is in doubt?

I don't think it can raise doubts on everything out there but I can understand the worry if you bought figures directly from Toni.

I was thinking about some of the other figures he has sold over the years and while the German ESB cards seem the most plentiful, Toni has also sold a lot of Meccano Jawas and Trilogos (various figures/card types).

With my hand on my heart I can honestly say that while his Trilogos look just as nice as the German ESB figures I have never once doubted those were real/factory seals. I've seen a lot of Toni's Trilogos over the years as well as Trilogos from other sources and from studying them as much as I have done I can safely say that they all appear to be good. They match examples found in the wild, the card variants are usually Palitoy variations and he has had a lot of POTF figures with the £1.59 sticker attached (these are confirmed as factory applied stickers).

His Meccano Jawa figures also match any example I have ever seen and he is definitely not the only source of these figures (even if he seems to have the most).

So to sum up, even if were proven that he had been sealing figures himself over the years he has almost definitely sold many legit factory sealed ones too.

While I felt it was important for the ebay account to be mentioned (because of the items he is buying) there may still be a completely plausible explanation.

Toni - I think at this point everyone would appreciate seeing you posting again.

 

[jimbody1]

There's loads of cards with lifting bubbles, ive seen it a lot on kenners too it means nothing, find a Kenner 45b with a taped bubble (there's plenty of them about ) you will see the same issue.

 

[Pomse2001]

Søren has just asked me to upload the backside of my german red snaggletooth cardback in this thread :?

 

[Caswellbot]

I 100% agree that Toni has many undoubtedly legit MOCs. I have seen some of the Kenner cards he has sold including a ROTJ IG-88 and I can say without a doubt it was fine. Ive also seen one of his meccano cloth cap Jawa MOCs. In my opinion you are right about the cards in question Joe. This thread does not apply to all the MOCs Toni is selling.

 

[Caswellbot]

There's loads of cards with lifting bubbles, ive seen it a lot on kenners too it means nothing, find a Kenner 45b with a taped bubble (there's plenty of them about ) you will see the same issue.

Im not talking about lifting bubbles Jim, Im obviously well aware that it happens to all MOCs. Im talking here about the smudged litho under the seal. Thats not all that commonly seen from my perspective. Correct me if Im wrong.

 

[spoons]

I'm not criticising but I'm surprised by Jim's defence of Toni, particularly after the Ben and Edd fiasco.

I'm genuinely still in the fence but it doesn't look good for Toni, but I can appreciate tha if you've bought a lot from him then you will want to believe the best

 

[Grant_C]

Guys.


I am waiting for some evidence. It is looking highly likely that the seals are fine and the MOCs are real.

??

"highly likely" ?!

I was never that confused in all these years of collecting. I fear that this "case" will not be solved and a lot of collectors are left with doubts regarding collectibles they own or collectibles offered.

Trying my best to get third parties to come forward whom may have counter Jason's evidence. Its beyond my reach at the moment and I don't wish to tread on toes.

 

[Captainsolo1978]

Surely someone knows an ex Palitoy employee who can identify legitimately seals and the process used.

 

[Grant_C]

Yes- people do.

This will take a while, but things are in motion for a resolution.

 

[jimbody1]

I'm not criticising but I'm surprised by Jim's defence of Toni, particularly after the Ben and Edd fiasco.

I'm genuinely still in the fence but it doesn't look good for Toni, but I can appreciate tha if you've bought a lot from him then you will want to believe the best

No offence here mate but im a big believer of innocent until proven guilty. Lets face it someone with a very dubious past comes on here posting claims they can't or at least are still to back up. If im wrong im more than happy to hold my hand up and apologize to anyone ive offended there's no ego here to bruise. I would however feel a right twat though.
I've said it before but I'll say it again show me proof, not hearsay, conjecture or theory but proof.

 

[spoons]

I'm not criticising but I'm surprised by Jim's defence of Toni, particularly after the Ben and Edd fiasco.

I'm genuinely still in the fence but it doesn't look good for Toni, but I can appreciate tha if you've bought a lot from him then you will want to believe the best

No offence here mate but im a big believer of innocent until proven guilty. Lets face it someone with a very dubious past comes on here posting claims they can't or at least are still to back up. If im wrong im more than happy to hold my hand up and apologize to anyone ive offended there's no ego here to bruise. I would however feel a right twat though.
I've said it before but I'll say it again show me proof, not hearsay, conjecture or theory but proof.

You've not offended anyone Jim, just an increasingly lone voice - I really hope you are right

 

[itfciain]

Playing devils advocate here - what exactly do you want as proof - I can't see Toni coming on here and admitting all (if the allegations are true)

 

[søren]

Søren has just asked me to upload the backside of my german red snaggletooth cardback in this thread :?

Thanks Lars .

Ths is the back of the red snag I posted pictures of some pages back . Comes from a Danish childhood colletion .

 

[JuniorChubb]

Playing devils advocate here - what exactly do you want as proof - I can't see Toni coming on here and admitting all (if the allegations are true)

Tough call Iain...

Evidence of the sale of carbacks and bubbles would be good. To easy to fake though.

The appearance of Arthur *snip* Bailey.

Someone finding a prominent and consistent difference on Toni's seals to Vintage shop brought seals of the same style cards.

Photographic evidence of some stock would help either way, either the MOC's or the cardbacks.

Hard proof Toni is buying up minty loosies that are not being sold on as loosies (maybe almost there with this one)

More 3rd parties confirming 'rumours', well backing up those 'rumours' with times, dates, prices and names.

I think you are right though. With Jasons supposed reputation for many only an admittance from Toni would be enough. I don't think either that or any of the above will materialise soon...

 

[lee gray]

I am still in dismay that Jason didnt know what a U grade was...that in itself sounds fishy

 

[JuniorChubb]

I am still in dismay that Jason didnt know what a U grade was...that in itself sounds fishy

Still in shock umpteen pages later :lol: :lol:

 

[Grant_C]

I didn't know what Ugrades where till joining this forum.

It would have never dawned on me to destroy legacy. Guess I don't hang out with cunts.

 

[Anonymous]

Whats Tonis second name?

 

[Captainsolo1978]

U grading really angers me. Destroying cards for money. Dicks!

 

[jimbody1]

Playing devils advocate here - what exactly do you want as proof - I can't see Toni coming on here and admitting all (if the allegations are true)

Just the same as everyone who has bought and still has mocs from Toni mate something definative instead of simple rumour which just leaves everyone on edge. I dare say there's lots of traders and collectors (myself included although I have none now) that are members on here that have spent thousands with Toni who's current stock looks like it could be worthless. I bet their arses are nipping reading this. At least with Ben and edd it was clear cut the proof was there that Ben had stolen goods and knew it (how he got them is still only rumour ). Jj states he has proof yet all ive seen is what he's posted which isn't any sort of proof at all. Its been said before, if this went to court going on what's been said it would've been laughed out by now.
And yes I hope to **** I am right otherwise im going to look more of a twat than I actually am. LMAO