Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[spoons]

I have some Joiner MOCs as well from 1995- at least I think they are from Jason- the seals are identical to the ones I have off Toytoni.

Can we trust a Jason seal? I'd need definite shop bought samples to be convinced

 

[spoons]

Also, just playing devils advocate here, being that Toni was a dealer. Couldn't he have just been buying tons of mint loose figures just for resale? or to get graded then resell? Having 2 ebay accts is odd, but maybe one for buying and one for selling, so that people wouldn't realize how much profit he was making? All just conjecture, but in the realm of possible.

J

The issue here is that te tons of loose figures are just a few characters.
If RangersJedi was selling full sets fair enough

I can see Yoda is a popular character but masses of Bossks is very fishy

 

[olisuds]

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question but I'm not too familiar with unused Palitoy cards. Wouldn't they most likely be unpunched?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question but I'm not too familiar with unused Palitoy cards. Wouldn't they most likely be unpunched?

It's quite easy to take a punch out of an unpunched card.



Jason

 

[theslider]

This thread has caught up with sandcrawler tits :shock:

I never did get to see those tits

Me neither!

 

[theslider]

Just looking at Toni's eBay auctions and the descriptions are quite minimal and the title or the auctions even more so - doesn't even have vintage or Star Wars in the title hence why I've never picked up his auctions in searches!

Just a thought, *if* he is resealing them does he only have the two types of bubble - the single and twin stem? I know others have mentioned that they've had Trilogos off him and said that they are 100% genuine and the same as no Toni sourced ones.

 

[olisuds]

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question but I'm not too familiar with unused Palitoy cards. Wouldn't they most likely be unpunched?

It's quite easy to take a punch out of an unpunched card.



Jason

Yes I appreciate that but why would you if an unpunched sells for more.

It's also quite easy to dent a few bubbles and put a few creases in

 

[Joe]

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question but I'm not too familiar with unused Palitoy cards. Wouldn't they most likely be unpunched?

Some cards were actually factory punched, so they would never have been "unpunched" when they left the factory.

 

[Lafos]

I'm not sure AFA and UKG are the best place to go. It's not in their interest to determine that these are not the same as the factory sealed as they'd also have a lot of explaining to do.

Exactly.

 

[BlueDog]

Trust a thread like this to happen when I'm trying to take a break from forums :?

Not sure what good these'll be but here's some pics of my German 45back Yoda ( no english text and came from a German collector ).

Not too sure if I've followed this thread correctly but am I right in thinking that only the German 45 backs with the English text are the one's under scrutiny?

A few things of note, the figure appears to have the Green snake ( if green snakes actually exist) and there appears to be some lifting on the inside of the bubble apparent in the last three pics.

 

[jimbody1]

if i remember rightly when i bought one of each from toni ( green and orange snake yodas ) they both had different backs in the way of text but i cant remember what the difference was just that it was.

 

[spoons]

Not too sure if I've followed this thread correctly but am I right in thinking that only the German 45 backs with the English text are the one's under scrutiny?

Unfortunately not

I've just emailed a bunch of photos to Wolff for his opinion, copied below..

I have a German stormtrooper and Han Hoth, which I posted in the thread and a 45b (logoless ESB Palitoy) Han Hoth and Bossk, and a 45c (ROTJ) Han Hoth.

I'm very suspicious of the Bossk and Stormtrooper - one UK and one German (AFA graded). I'm also a little wary about the German Han Hoth - also graded

The 45a and 45c Han Hoths I've no issues with

 

[itfciain]

Am I right in thinking that none of these came with taped weapons?

 

[Caswellbot]

Correct me if I'm wrong here palitoy heads but the hanger tabs of the cards being discussed is not securely fixed to the body of the card in the same way that Kenner cards are? The hanger tabs on Kenner cards are attached to the main body of the card at a few points. the perimeter of the punch is perforated.
From what i have seen of these cards that doesnt exist. In fact its hard to make out how the punch stays in the card. Did these cards all have hanger tabs. So many examples i have looked don't have one.

Chris.

 

[Caswellbot]

Apologies I can see Joe has already covered this point.

 

[Joe]

Correct me if I'm wrong here palitoy heads but the hanger tabs of the cards being discussed is not securely fixed to the body of the card in the same way that Kenner cards are? The hanger tabs on Kenner cards are attached to the main body of the card at a few points. the perimeter of the punch is perforated.
From what i have seen of these cards that doesnt exist. In fact its hard to make out how the punch stays in the card. Did these cards all have hanger tabs. So many examples i have looked don't have one.

Chris.

I can't speak for all the Palitoy releases but towards the end of the ESB period and during the ROTJ period there were various different factories producing factory punched cards for European distribution. The Palitoy 70C Trilogo cards are always factory punched, same goes for Type 3 Trilogos (probably the earliest Trilogos available in the UK) as well as most of the Meccano Trilogos. Another card that springs to mind as factory punched is the printed Clipper offer card that was made in the UK.

I think it's just a case of different factories and different periods, at this point I don't think it's any indication of anything other than that and especially not anything untoward (if that is the reason it's being questioned?).

 

[Joe]

Apologies I can see Joe has already covered this point.

Oops sorry, I answered you before I saw this Chris!

 

[edd_jedi]

Just thought I'd throw this in there as his name has been brought up a few times. I have one of Mark Poon's original "Stormtrooper double packs" and as you can see below, the seal is firmly attached and even has a pattern to it (not the same as the waffle pattern, but the same idea.) So his seals are not that terrible, and I think this shows that you do not necessarily need expensive equipment to make a convincing looking bubble seal. I've certainly seen worse on authentic MOCs.

 

[Caswellbot]

Thanks Joe, not questioning it as such it was more of an observation. I am highlighting the fact that the lack of hanger tab doesn't really add up to much at the moment.

 

[Joe]

Thanks Joe, not questioning it as such it was more of an observation. I am highlighting the fact that the lack of hanger tab doesn't really add up to much at the moment.

Agreed and np, sorry from me as well. With everyone posting at similar times and about different things it's a little hard to keep up with what's actually being questioned and what's not lol

 

[Richard_H]

Agreed. And would poon but stupid enough to sell reawaken under his Poon name or would he be best trickling them onto the market under a different name? Perhaps Poon doesn't have the cardbacks? Or the bubbles although I'd imagine they're easier to reproduce.

 

[Caswellbot]

Agreed. And would poon but stupid enough to sell reawaken under his Poon name or would he be best trickling them onto the market under a different name? Perhaps Poon doesn't have the cardbacks? Or the bubbles although I'd imagine they're easier to reproduce.

They would be easier to reproduce in the part of the world he heralds from I believe.

 

[spoons]

Am I right in thinking that none of these came with taped weapons?

none (or very few?) of the later Palitoy cards were taped Iain, certainly not by Toni at any rate :wink:

 

[escapist]

Out of curiosity (and a lack of anything better to do), I trawled through Toni's ebay feedback. Since 2007, Ebay puts the item description underneath the feedback.

I shoved everything between February 2007 and November 2013 into a spreadsheet just to see if any thing crops up regularly and what frequency....

I'm not gonna put everything here (there are around 450 Star Wars related items), but three of the more common results:

"VINTAGE STAR WARS 20 BACK MECCANO JAWA" - 59 Sold
"PALITOY ROTJ IMPERIAL HOTH STORMTROOPER 65 BACK" - 58 Sold
"PALITOY 45 BACK ROTJ WALRUSMAN" - 17 Sold

Interestingly only 17 German General Mills carded figures of various characters.

And four auction listing titles that intrigued me:

RARE CLIPPER ESB BESPIN GUARD AND IMPERIAL STORMTROOPER CARDBACKS (#251224110007)
RARE CLIPPER ESB BESPIN GUARD AND IMPERIAL STORMTROOPER CARDBACKS (#251225362036)
GERMAN GENERAL MILLS ESB DENGAR LEIA 4LOM C3PO CARDBACKS (#251224109995)
8 PALITOY ORIGINAL VINTAGE BACKING CARDS (#250360472105)


Make of it what you will. Hope people find it useful!

 

[escapist]

And I know the rules re auction outing, so I won't post the link but he has a very odd "factory error" 45 Back Walrusman for sale at the mo. With a trilogo bubble. :roll:

"HARD TO FIND HYBRID IN EXCELLENT CONDITION.CARD IS CREASE FREE AND VERY CLEAN AS IN PHOTOS..THE TRILOGO STYLE BUBBLE IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION AND HAS A FACTORY DEFECT -ONLY SEALED ON 3 SIDES WITH THE BOTTOM EDGE OF THE BUBBLE MISSING.."

And as I noted above, he's managed to sell 17 Walrusmen on 45 backs in the past. The titles for those don't suggest "factory error" or Trilogo bubbles...

 

[**Delboy75**]

Not looking good is it :?

Arthur had cases of meccano jawas for sale too.

 

[JuniorChubb]

"PALITOY 45 BACK ROTJ WALRUSMAN"

 

[Mr-shifter]

Are the card backs he has been selling used or unused?

In his earlier post he mentioned Arthur said he had offered him card backs but they never materialised. It would seem odd that he might have sold some and not mentioned it at this point.

I know of one of his ebay accounts, the more popular red planet based one. Is the other publically known yet?

 

[lee gray]

Its ashame this discussion is in a thread about the VC Jawa as most people reading from the middle might be under assumption that those are the possilble fakes being discussed when this Toni situation has nothing to do with the thread header in hand.

 

[M_Rendahl]

Great work and information, Joe! Toni's second ebay account thats buying loose mint figures at a pretty high cost says it all. Much more "proof" isn't needed imo.

Thanks for all the pics folks. Does anyone have a good pic of a C3PO rem limbs front that doesnt come from Toni?

Mattias