PL 2017-2018 Thread

[theforceuk]

Yeah we're not going to agree, Poch and Klopp have still won nothing and I would take Jose any day over those two put together, the only mistake Utd made was not getting him in straight after Firgie left. As soon as you get a new manager, not coach manager who buys his own players, he needs time. Doesn't matter how much money you spend. No matter what you say it's a results business and since Christmas Utd have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool in the league and Spurs in the Cup. Take away some silly results against West Brom, Newcastle, Huddersfield and Brighton, we would only be 7 points behind City! :lol: If I was Spurs or Liverpool I would be worried that they can't catch Man Utd, let aloan Many City.

We really are polar opposites when it comes to Jose, my problem is that you hate him and that affects your judgment on him.

All successful managers are lucky, Klopp and Poch aren't either. Jose is one of the most successful managers of this century, no argument against, its a fact.

 

[spoons]

I can't stand Mourinio but there's no doubting he's a winner (albeit on the decline). Take away a truly exceptional City performance and United would have romped the league any other season. A lot of their odder results where when there was no chance of catching City. Even you must agree that is some achievemnt Weasel - they have Lukaku as their main striker :shock: This is not a great Utd team by any stretch of the imagination regardless of money spent.

There is a lot of luck in football but there is also instilling a divine right in your team not to be beaten which does create its own luck. Ed's complaints about Spurs never getting any luck is true, but it's also true that the players don't seem to believe that luck will go their way. Those United teams of the past with their last minute winners were becasue Fergie instilled a never say die attitude.

Wenger's FA cup wins are similar to a degree, the team goes out expecting to win those Wembley semi finals and finals, on the flip side there is no belief against good European teams and consequently the luck doesn't go their way. Van Persie's sending off for taking a shot at goal a few years back is testament to that.

Can't believe I'm arguing Utd's case

 

[weasel]

Take away some silly results against West Brom, Newcastle, Huddersfield and Brighton, we would only be 7 points behind City! :lol: If I was Spurs or Liverpool I would be worried that they can't catch Man Utd, let aloan Many City.

Which is why I don't understand Jose saying he needs another £200million plus in the summer. Utd shoot themselves in the foot by losing to or drawing with PL's lesser lights. He shouldn't need more money to beat the likes of the sides you listed. Utd should have too much for them as it is. A Utd side with 5/6/7/8 changes should have too much for them.

We really are polar opposites when it comes to Jose, my problem is that you hate him and that affects your judgment on him.

Yeah, I freely admit I struggle to separate Jose the manager from Jose the utter ****. Saying that, I have no issues with admitting Fergy was a great manager. I do think he underachieved slightly in Europe, and he says as much himself. God knows I have no love for him either.

All successful managers are lucky, Klopp and Poch aren't either.

That might well come back to haunt you if Liverpool win in 11 days! Probably not, cos now I've pointed it out, I've guaranteed a Real win.

 

[weasel]

I can't stand Mourinio but there's no doubting he's a winner (albeit on the decline). Take away a truly exceptional City performance and United would have romped the league any other season. A lot of their odder results where when there was no chance of catching City. Even you must agree that is some achievemnt Weasel - they have Lukaku as their main striker :shock: This is not a great Utd team by any stretch of the imagination regardless of money spent.

I always find it hard to get on board with arguments like "if City hadn't been there Utd would have won the league."
Ok, putting aside the fact, that yes, in a pedantic sense, if you strip City out of the table Utd are next in line. In practice the psychological affect of there actually being a title race would have affected all three sides (Utd, Spurs, and Pool). It may have meant Utd won it by more as the other two choked, or it may have meant that one of the other two put on a fantastic run and pipped Utd, or even that Utd choked. We will never know.
One thing is for certain, the lack of a title challenge will have affected selection for games in all three clubs as players were saved for CL/FAC games or squad players were given pitch time that, had their club been in a genuine title challenge, they wouldn't have got.

I do agree it's not a great Utd side. Nor was Fergy's last one, actually I think it was one of the weakest sides to win a PL title. And they finished above Liverpool on both occasions so the implication is there for it not being a 'great' Liverpool team either. The slight complication is obviously how Liverpool do in the CL in 11 days.

I still maintain Jose is doing no more than a bang average job at Utd and providing piss poor value for money (that's in terms of the money he has spent, not his wages).

 

[spoons]

I can't stand Mourinio but there's no doubting he's a winner (albeit on the decline). Take away a truly exceptional City performance and United would have romped the league any other season. A lot of their odder results where when there was no chance of catching City. Even you must agree that is some achievemnt Weasel - they have Lukaku as their main striker :shock: This is not a great Utd team by any stretch of the imagination regardless of money spent.

I always find it hard to get on board with arguments like "if City hadn't been there Utd would have won the league."
Ok, putting aside the fact, that yes, in a pedantic sense, if you strip City out of the table Utd are next in line. In practice the psychological affect of there actually being a title race would have affected all three sides (Utd, Spurs, and Pool). It may have meant Utd won it by more as the other two choked, or it may have meant that one of the other two put on a fantastic run and pipped Utd, or even that Utd choked. We will never know.
One thing is for certain, the lack of a title challenge will have affected selection for games in all three clubs as players were saved for CL/FAC games or squad players were given pitch time that, had their club been in a genuine title challenge, they wouldn't have got.

I do agree it's not a great Utd side. Nor was Fergy's last one, actually I think it was one of the weakest sides to win a PL title. And they finished above Liverpool on both occasions so the implication is there for it not being a 'great' Liverpool team either. The slight complication is obviously how Liverpool do in the CL in 11 days.

I still maintain Jose is doing no more than a bang average job at Utd and providing piss poor value for money (that's in terms of the money he has spent, not his wages).

I was referring to points total really. in a very competetive top 4 United were on for a higher points total than recent winners until they gave up. we'll never know what they would have got if City weren't there. Whatever the ifs and maybes he's a horrible man, a bully and has a brand of very boring football but he does also have a lot of trophies

 

[weasel]

I was referring to points total really. in a very competetive top 4 United were on for a higher points total than recent winners until they gave up. we'll never know what they would have got if City weren't there. Whatever the ifs and maybes he's a horrible man, a bully and has a brand of very boring football but he does also have a lot of trophies

Ahh ok, fair enough. Yeah, I guess you can make that argument, it holds up a bit more. Though there is still the issue of the different psychologies from the lack of competition.

On a more sombre note, RIP, JLloyd Samuel.

 

[spoons]

On a more sombre note, RIP, JLloyd Samuel.

I wasnt aware until you posted - sad news

 

[theforceuk]

That is sad news, RIP.

I was aware that comment on Klopp could come back to haunt me, but at this moment in time I stand by that statement. It's up to Klopp and Poch to change it. Although I can't really think of 2 worse teams to be in the final, you can't help liking Klopp even as a Utd fan, I'm still kneeling on my Real Madrid shirt preying every night before I go to bed though. :wink: :lol:

Also Fergie probably did under achieve in Europe, but then again the two finals he won were lucky. Two stoppage time goals and the other one on penalties. So probably about right. The two Barcelona finals we were completely outclassed, no arguements. He should have got to perhaps one or two more finals in late 90's early 00's though.

 

[weasel]

I do have a degree of sympathy with Fergy when it comes to the CL, as initially that 3 foreigners rule and the fact that the home nations all count as separate countries, really shafted Utd. Even after that the CL is a dam hard competition to win. So while he probably should have done better, he didn't exactly do badly.

And, there is no shame in losing to those two Barcelona teams. No one could/would have beaten them. I said as much straight after the respective finals.

 

[edd_jedi]

Big Sam leaves Everton. I heard Arsenal have an opening, here's hoping :lol: in all seriousness he finished 8th, not bad considering? They might regret this. Although he falls in to the Pardew, Pulis, Hughes etc category of merry-go-round managers he isn't that bad.

 

[lejackal]

Big Sam leaves Everton. I heard Arsenal have an opening, here's hoping :lol: in all seriousness he finished 8th, not bad considering? They might regret this. Although he falls in to the Pardew, Pulis, Hughes etc category of merry-go-round managers he isn't that bad.

6 million pay off for 6 months work, not too shabby. You can see why the merry-go-round is so appealing

 

[theforceuk]

My first thought when I saw that was watch out Arsenal! The new manager coming into Everton is going to have a job finishing higher than 8th. Although whoever it is will play more attractive football, problem is for me Everton need to get results first and then worry about the style of football they play.

Wenger for the Everton job? :lol:

 

[lejackal]

My first thought when I saw that was watch out Arsenal! The new manager coming into Everton is going to have a job finishing higher than 8th. Although whoever it is will play more attractive football, problem is for me Everton need to get results first and then worry about the style of football they play.

Wenger for the Everton job? :lol:

Let them have Arteta because I don't want an experiment at Arsenal!

 

[lejackal]

Also Moyes has gone-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44140002

 

[edd_jedi]

This is getting silly! No doubt they will all be managing different PL teams next season. Are foreign leagues this bad? Must look embarrassing to outsiders, imagine if at work you just kept sacking the same five people and giving them different jobs.

 

[theforceuk]

It is ridiculous, Big Sam will have a nice 6 months off now. Then November/December time a club that hasn't won all season will hire him, as long as it's not Man Utd I don't really care. :lol:

 

[weasel]

Did Fat Sam really do a good job at Everton? Thy finished 8th with the 7th best squad in the league.
They were 13th when he took over and never in any realistic danger of going down. He hasn't done 'a bad job' he has just done what he does, kept them up playing his brand of football. It is a horrible brand of football though and at a club that spent mega bucks (in their terms) last summer they wanted more than attrition midtable obscurity. The summer spending wasn't on his watch and wasn't particularly well done, but I don't think he can have any complaints.
He knew rightly he wasn't first choice and that the fans didn't like him. Hardly surprising that he gets fired.

Moyesy was similar, though he did as well could be expected at a club as poorly run as WH. Saying that he did make a few poor signings, and the team never really looked like moving above the fringes of the relegation dog fight.

I don't like either manager and I don't like the fact both get jobs because they are part of the old boy network, so I hope we don't see either managing in the PL again. But we all know someone will get desperate at xmas and lift the phone to Fat Sam.

 

[Snaketibe]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Moyes go back to Everton. I'm sure he regrets leaving them to (mis)manage United, and the fans there still like him (so I'm told), so perhaps that's a combination they'll want to try again?... Or perhaps they'll appoint Wenger, if he still wants to manage in the PL?... Or maybe they'll rush Pardew into the post before he's snapped up by Real Madrid :lol:

 

[edd_jedi]

I think 8th for Everton was pretty respectable. Apart from Burnley are they really in the same league as any of the teams above them? Nowhere near. Mid table in the PL is pretty respectable these days, and as a Spurs fan trust me I know it gets boring after 20 years but it's a damned sight better than being relegated. I understand why people say his playing style is dull and boring, but I wish Poch could do it on occasion, rather than having 9 of the 10 outfield players in the opponents penalty area at all times :lol: Jose makes no apologies for getting the job done sometimes, if you want to win that's a way of doing it.

Moyes on the other hand, he's looked like a broken man since the Utd ordeal, I don't see any confidence in his face. So I don't think going back to Everton would be a good look. I genuinely think Wenger would be a good option for either West Ham or Everton, he's proved over the last few years that he's no longer good enough to be a title contender but I'm sure he could improve both. I have a feeling based on his arrogance he's expecting a call from Barcelona any minute though.

 

[weasel]

Agreed on Moyesy.

Wenger will want a bigger coub than Everton or WH. I could see him working on the continent. Possibly as a director of football or the like.