Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

mr_palitoy

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Where does he link to my site? Had a look at his auctions and couldn't see any links.

I think it's good to get something out on the guides out there. Wolfgang had put a place holder on his German guide
which prompted me to update mine.

cheers Jason
 

_Darren_

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Starzone said:
I always wondered why Toni never sent large batches of figures over to AFA to get graded, it just didn't make business sense......I guess this was because

A/ He didn't have large quantities sealed to send over at anyone time
B/ if he submitted 100s and this news eventually came out then surely a large company like AFA would come after him legally.


Totally this,Dazza!!

I understand the mechanics of getting others to submit to the AFA,thus removing himself from the equation. Thus shining the light far away from him. Clever.

Probably gave the scam about another 10 years of legitimacy,IMO.

Darren
 

spoons

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mr_palitoy said:
Where does he link to my site? Had a look at his auctions and couldn't see any links.

I think it's good to get something out on the guides out there. Wolfgang had put a place holder on his German guide
which prompted me to update mine.

cheers Jason

in the description on the Luke

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-Palitoy-Luke-Bespin-MOC-Carded-ROTJ-figure-45-back-card-/141159935490?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item20ddc9ae02
 

mr_palitoy

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spoons said:
mr_palitoy said:
Where does he link to my site? Had a look at his auctions and couldn't see any links.

I think it's good to get something out on the guides out there. Wolfgang had put a place holder on his German guide
which prompted me to update mine.

cheers Jason

in the description on the Luke

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-Palitoy-Luke-Bespin-MOC-Carded-ROTJ-figure-45-back-card-/141159935490?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item20ddc9ae02

Nice, I guess he linked to that before the Toni update!

:)

Jason
 

edd_jedi

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spoons said:
I'm quite tempted by his Luke Bespin, is that a good price?

Me too but it's been unsold for literally months at £100 so that shows there is no demand for it, due to the condition I guess. Cool piece but you'd never make your money back.

mr_palitoy said:
Nice, I guess he linked to that before the Toni update!

I guess you can probably update your page now where it talks about the 'very rare' Boba Fett with single stem bubble!
 

spoons

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edd_jedi said:
spoons said:
I'm quite tempted by his Luke Bespin, is that a good price?

Me too but it's been unsold for literally months at £100 so that shows there is no demand for it, due to the condition I guess. Cool piece but you'd never make your money back.

might see if he'll take an offer - could be the start of a 'genuine' 45 back focus :D
 

lee gray

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edd_jedi said:
Love this line in his eBay description:

"These are ultra collectable especially as it will shoot in value once the new films kick in and always nice to have a Empire Strikes Back card for a ESB figure!"

What he means is:

"These will plummet in value as soon as you idiots read any of the threads on the various forums!"

To be honest I dont mind buying star wars figures on a Jedi card if they were also in jedi but i would never buy a figure such as hoth trooper on a jedi card because that would make no sense.

What is the story behind his han solo on jedi card with trilogo bubble ?
 

pizzathehutt

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just been having a think back to the last time i saw toni and it was about april 99 only a few months before episode one came out, back when he had a stool at alfies antiques off the edgware road, i thought i'd chance my arm and take a load of loose doubles down there and see if he would do a swap for ones that i needed.

from what i can remember he seemed all very un-interested in the whole star wars thing, he said keep your figures they'll be worth more once all these new films are out and then sell them, anyways i managed to talk him into it but he seemed so un-interested, in the end i managed swap about 10 loose beaters for an anakin and an uncomplete luke poncho so was quite happy with that but at the same time a bit dissapointed he didnt have much to say about the figures and told me he was more into planet of the apes stuff and japanese robots so the recarding thing thats going on did suprise me a bit. (also i do seem to remember him having quite a few signatures from movie stars)

but then skip forward to summer 2011 (one of the days the london riots were happening) i visited snoopers paradise in brighton and noticed this stool that looked all too familiar, lots of overpriced loose figures and some very minty looking and reasonable priced carded figures, i was sucked in and asked to have a look, there were 2 in particular that i looked at one was a c3p0 and the other was an imperial dignitary, both had very clear bubbles but what really put me off was on the back there was a lot of rubbing where the bubble was joined which rung alarm bells and also the dignitary came with a luke jedi blaster??? anyways i avoided these luckily. the bib fortuna and barada he had had the yellowist bubbles ever so i think those were the real deal, sneaking in a few recards amongst the real stuff would be the way to do it i guess? it was only a few months later speaking to a few on here i realised this was also toni's stool from back at alfies.
 

lee gray

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pizzathehutt said:
just been having a think back to the last time i saw toni and it was about april 99 only a few months before episode one came out, back when he had a stool at alfies antiques off the edgware road, i thought i'd chance my arm and take a load of loose doubles down there and see if he would do a swap for ones that i needed.

from what i can remember he seemed all very un-interested in the whole star wars thing, he said keep your figures they'll be worth more once all these new films are out and then sell them, anyways i managed to talk him into it but he seemed so un-interested, in the end i managed swap about 10 loose beaters for an anakin and an uncomplete luke poncho so was quite happy with that but at the same time a bit dissapointed he didnt have much to say about the figures and told me he was more into planet of the apes stuff and japanese robots so the recarding thing thats going on did suprise me a bit. (also i do seem to remember him having quite a few signatures from movie stars)

but then skip forward to summer 2011 (one of the days the london riots were happening) i visited snoopers paradise in brighton and noticed this stool that looked all too familiar, lots of overpriced loose figures and some very minty looking and reasonable priced carded figures, i was sucked in and asked to have a look, there were 2 in particular that i looked at one was a c3p0 and the other was an imperial dignitary, both had very clear bubbles but what really put me off was on the back there was a lot of rubbing where the bubble was joined which rung alarm bells and also the dignitary came with a luke jedi blaster??? anyways i avoided these luckily. the bib fortuna and barada he had had the yellowist bubbles ever so i think those were the real deal, sneaking in a few recards amongst the real stuff would be the way to do it i guess? it was only a few months later speaking to a few on here i realised this was also toni's stool from back at alfies.


lol you missed out on the dignitary then as with the blaster its very rare, I know Robbie has one
Always hearing how Toni is not in the slightest interest in star wars, thats most prob why he didnt give a **** if he stuck these things together himself as not something he collects
 

edd_jedi

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It is a shame that the haul of the century ended up in the hands of somebody that doesn't even like Star Wars, but I guess that's life!
 

plantman

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pizzathehutt said:
i visited snoopers paradise in brighton and noticed this stool that looked all too familiar.

sorry lol, i had to do it when i saw stool :)
 

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edd_jedi

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darthberizing said:
Has anyone opened one up to see if it comes apart easy, or doesn't tear the cardback up,etc..?

It's a bit of a catch 22 - I also think this is a good way of identifying them, as the bubble will probably come off with little force, and most genuine old used cardbacks you see look like an angle grinder was needed to get the bubble off the card.

But the problem is in doing so you destroy it, so all you'll get out of it is either the satisfaction that you were right about it being fake, or the despair of destroying a genuine carded figure! :cry:
 

Lee Bullock

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-1983-Return-of-the-Jedi-Palitoy-45-back-Grey-hair-Ben-Kenobi-MOC-/181295069415

Look at the bubble on this Ben. I have NEVER seen a bubble like this on any Palitoy card, the corner are too sharp and it looks to big to be a European bubble. It doesnt resemble the Spanish trilogo bubbles with rounded corners either. What do you think? Is this a TT with a new bubble or am I jumping at shadows myself here as Ben doesnt seem to appear on the watch list? The card has the same sort of mirror sheen I have seen on TT figures before? I figured I would see what you guys think too...
 

mr_palitoy

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Lee Bullock said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-1983-Return-of-the-Jedi-Palitoy-45-back-Grey-hair-Ben-Kenobi-MOC-/181295069415

Look at the bubble on this Ben. I have NEVER seen a bubble like this on any Palitoy card, the corner are too sharp and it looks to big to be a European bubble. It doesnt resemble the Spanish trilogo bubbles with rounded corners either. What do you think? Is this a TT with a new bubble or am I jumping at shadows myself here as Ben doesnt seem to appear on the watch list? The card has the same sort of mirror sheen I have seen on TT figures before? I figured I would see what you guys think too...

Welcome to collecting post tonigate where we doubt everything.

I'd have got excited about that, as it's a new entry on my palitoy matrix.

Grey haired ben has also appeared in a one off example on 45b (see picture):-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45bcardback.htm

None afa graded for 45c, so a rare MOC. 9 graded on 65d.

So, do I stick it on the matrix? May as well throw the matrix away if I stop updating it now...

cheers Jason
 

PGowdy

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edd_jedi said:
darthberizing said:
Has anyone opened one up to see if it comes apart easy, or doesn't tear the cardback up,etc..?

It's a bit of a catch 22 - I also think this is a good way of identifying them, as the bubble will probably come off with little force, and most genuine old used cardbacks you see look like an angle grinder was needed to get the bubble off the card.

But the problem is in doing so you destroy it, so all you'll get out of it is either the satisfaction that you were right about it being fake, or the despair of destroying a genuine carded figure! :cry:

This would also prove nothing. A genuine vintage bubble could also come away from its card with ease after 30+ years. And conversely a newly applied repro bubble could tear the card to pieces when removed depending on how it was applied.
 

_Lee_

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PGowdy said:
edd_jedi said:
darthberizing said:
Has anyone opened one up to see if it comes apart easy, or doesn't tear the cardback up,etc..?

It's a bit of a catch 22 - I also think this is a good way of identifying them, as the bubble will probably come off with little force, and most genuine old used cardbacks you see look like an angle grinder was needed to get the bubble off the card.

But the problem is in doing so you destroy it, so all you'll get out of it is either the satisfaction that you were right about it being fake, or the despair of destroying a genuine carded figure! :cry:

This would also prove nothing. A genuine vintage bubble could also come away from its card with ease after 30+ years. And conversely a newly applied repro bubble could tear the card to pieces when removed depending on how it was applied.

Im pretty sure a forensic/scientic test could determine many facets of this problem.The glue could be identified for age if im not mistaken? The figure on the card being dusted for TT D.N.A.,the process of how the cards were sealed.Theoretically,this is what is needed here but can you ever see such tests being carried out??? AFA loosies being identified as previously slabbed and now on a card.???thats why i think nothing will ever happen.Unless tests such as these are carried out,nothing will ever be proven therefore the crime will remain unpunished.I am not taking the piss,i am being serious.There is no proof.That list JJ produced is good to most of us,but it would be laughed out of court in the outside world.

Putting it bluntly,this is one of the most perfectly executed scams in recent history and without a chance comment made on this forum ,it would still be a dirty little secret.We can all comment,advise,prove what we want,but its different in a courtroom.There is zero proof and as original parts were used,i think any legal stance is failed from the get go.
 

spoons

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Lee Bullock said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-1983-Return-of-the-Jedi-Palitoy-45-back-Grey-hair-Ben-Kenobi-MOC-/181295069415

Look at the bubble on this Ben. I have NEVER seen a bubble like this on any Palitoy card, the corner are too sharp and it looks to big to be a European bubble. It doesnt resemble the Spanish trilogo bubbles with rounded corners either. What do you think? Is this a TT with a new bubble or am I jumping at shadows myself here as Ben doesnt seem to appear on the watch list? The card has the same sort of mirror sheen I have seen on TT figures before? I figured I would see what you guys think too...

No bubble imprint on the reverse, which you'd expect with a tri - I'd be cautious
 

Starzone

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spoons said:
Lee Bullock said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Wars-1983-Return-of-the-Jedi-Palitoy-45-back-Grey-hair-Ben-Kenobi-MOC-/181295069415

Look at the bubble on this Ben. I have NEVER seen a bubble like this on any Palitoy card, the corner are too sharp and it looks to big to be a European bubble. It doesnt resemble the Spanish trilogo bubbles with rounded corners either. What do you think? Is this a TT with a new bubble or am I jumping at shadows myself here as Ben doesnt seem to appear on the watch list? The card has the same sort of mirror sheen I have seen on TT figures before? I figured I would see what you guys think too...

No bubble imprint on the reverse, which you'd expect with a tri - I'd be cautious

I've noticed a few with strange bubbles lately....and also the bubbles are positioned as far as possible to the left and bottom side....I wonder if that is so the old iron doesn't have to come into contact with those sides of the backing card
 

jambobbyb

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Gentlemen, I have just spent the evening with a member of the police, he is a local to me medal collector, I discussed what's been going off here with him and he suggests anyone who has been ripped off contacts action fraud immediately but says try to make a large amount of your complaints at the same time so a pattern can be instantly formed. He is quite optimistic of this being something they would be "very" interested in. You can do it online and here is the Linky
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk
 
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