Ian_C said:
OMr-shifter, you're right that I am basing the context on spoilers (89 pages - not a few lines by the way), but which comparisons do you feel I was out on? Honest question. Ian
OK, here goes. This is my interpretation of last night.
"Rey = young innocent with no parents on desert planet who discovers she is Force sensitive and becomes the main hero = Luke"
Luke skywalker was a farmer, stuck in a backwater dreaming of adventure and the chance to get away from his mundane life. Rey has been left on Jakku, learnt to survive on her own instincts and skills as a scavenger but has always been waiting for someone or something to come back to get her. She has faith that she is counting down the time until this happens and is doing what she can to survive in the meantime.
"Kylo Ren = former Jedi apprentice who falls to the Dark Side, acquires a black outfit and red lightsaber, and becomes the real villain's #1 henchman = Darth Vader"
Yes, both characters fell to the dark side. That is where the similarities end. Vader was pure granite. Emotionless, terrifying and in control of everything he did. He was also supremely loyal to his master, the emperor. Ren is angry, far more like a human than vader ever was. He is not properly in control of his skills and is fallible. How many times did Vader ever get hit or injured by blaster fire? If there was any comparison to be made here it would be more like HCs anakin, however he was light side, falling towards dark, where as Ren is dark, possibly falling towards light. It is also hinted he pursuing a personal agenda. Vader was not (until he found out he had a son and sister, but that was not immediate)
"Finn = guy who escapes big ship in the beginning of the movie, hooks up with lost young hero on desert planet, and is used mostly as comedic relief after that = C-3PO"
This is not the character at all. Finn is a first order defector who is trying to escape his past and gets drawn into the good fight. You are trying to make a square peg fit a round hole here. You would have found more similarity if you had compared his character to Solo. He doesn't have the same streetwise nature though. He is a conditioned soldier and knows very little else.
"BB-8 = smartass little droid who contains vital information and because of that is being hunted by bad guys = R2-D2"
Again, as I was watching the film I felt I had met a new an distinctively different character in BB8.
"Maz = small alien who speaks in riddles and focuses young hero as to their destiny = Yoda"
Maybe, maybe not. I didn't feel Maz was speaking in riddles, nor was she a Jedi Master, nor is she seemingly going to train Rey in the ways of the force. Infact I would suggest your description above is more what Obi Wan did for luke then Yoda. They are both aliens and they are both short so you are right there. Perhaps Maz is an ewok?
"Starkiller Base = giant planet modified to become destructive force used to wipe out Rebel base = Death Star I AND II"
I will agree here, and this is the part I had the biggest issue with. I was disappointed that they had rehashed the super weapon idea again. I don't want to see another one of these. They don't really work.
"Starkiller Base = ice planet = Hoth"
They were on a planet with forest, as well as an ice planet, as well as a planet mostly covered in ocean. Every terrain has previously been used in star wars films, and the planet earth has run out of terrains for them to film on. What additional terrains would you suggest? Cities (done that), Space stations (Done that). Farmland (Naboo maybe). Perhaps they should go to a planet made of Jelly.
"Starkiller Base = having a weakness exposed in a trench that fighter spacecraft can infiltrate and blow the whole damn thing up = Death Star I"
Not quite right here. The ships failed initially. It needed a strike team to infiltrate and destroy it. You could have put an endor reference in here instead. Anyway, I do have a bit of a problem with a third death star as stated above. Surely they would have learnt some basic engineering lessons from the previous two. Mind you, this does ring true to reality. Look up the fate of the HMS Hood.
"Captain Phasma = mysterious soldier employed by the Empire hunting down heroes that wears a unique suit of armor with a cape over one shoulder that we only see a little of = Boba Fett"
Phasma is a dull and flat character with little point other than marketing. Phasma is also not a bounty hunter, nor mysterious. Fett had the aura of a badass about him. Phasma is there to sell figures.
"Luke Goes Into Seclusion On A Remote Island = where he goes after his failure = Yoda Goes To Dagobah"
Luke had left after failing to restore the Jedi order, due to loosing Ren to the dark side. Luke has not gone into seclusion though. The film stated he had gone to find the Jedi Temple. Wheras Yoda did nothing till Luke found him, Luke has been actively pursuing another as yet unknown goal.
"General Hux = Nazi-like leader in charge of Starkiller Base (ie Death Star I) who is shown to be disagreeable to Klo Ren (Darth Vader) - Grand Mofff Tarkin"
They are both leaders of an army. I felt the first order, particularly the character of Hux, was far more fanatical in its feel that the empire ever was. Tarkin was a far more measured and calculated leader. Hux did have a real feel of Nazi about him. Plus, does an army not need a general. What sort of leader were you expecting. Imperial officers are all generally cut from the same cloth.
"Snoke = mysterious leader seen mostly in hologram form seated on a throne and is the true leader of the bad guys = Emperor"
It seems we are destined to have a puppet master controlling things where the dark side is concerned. I guess thats just the way of the dark side. Rule of two and all that.
"Poe = Rebel pilot who is an unsung hero and plays a vital role in the destruction of Starkiller Base (ie Death Star II) = Wedge Antilles"
Not unsung at all. Widely known and lauded as the hero pilot of the rebellion. This in my opinion is something the previous films have lacked (certainly star wars had no established rebel heroes). A rebel hero who is just that, a rebel hero who made his name as a pilot for the rebellion. Perhaps what Wedge would have become by ROTJ.
"Kylo Ren vs Han Solo = young former Jedi turned Sith kills older father with lightsaber blow after father tries to convince him to let go of his hatred = Vader vs Obi-Wan"
Obi Wan was not vaders father. There was as far as I remember no trying to turn Vader back to light when Obi Wan and vader duelled. This did not come until return of the jedi and was luke, vaders son trying to convince his father to let go of his hatred. In the case of luke and vader, luke successfully brought the light side out of vader. In TFA, murdering his father pushed ren further from the light to the dark.
"Leia = strong female leader who convinces man close to her to go and try to convert bad guy back to good = Leia (to Luke on Endor)"
Yes, but it worked with Luke. Han failed.
"Rey Obtains Millennium Falcon = hero goes to junk shop, meets with slimy junk dealer, finds an unexpected friend, and ends up finding ship (or important part of one) that gets them off desert planet = Qui-Gon goes to Mos Espa, meets Watto, discovers Anakin, and finds hyperdrive he needs to get off Tatooine"
We didn't get all of the betting a ship in a pod race with a ten year old who has never piloted a pod before garbage though did we. They needed a ship, and ended up stealing the Falcon, which wasn't their first choice. The film needed a way to bring the new characters together with the old. They used the falcon as that link.
"Max Von Sydow's character = person who supplies Poe/BB-8 with info the bad guys REALLY want, before being killed by Kylo Ren very early into movie = Captain Antilles, transporting Leia who provides R2-D2 with info the bad guys REALLY want, before being killed by Vader very early into movie"
No more than an extra in my opinion. The plot here was more important than the characters sadly, as I like Von Sydow.
"Than there's all the bits of fan service/cameos/Easter eggs. X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers, Chewbacca, Ackbar, Nien Nunb, various bits of dialogue, etc."
The film is supposed to be shot in an existing universe. Expect to see familiar parts of that universe. I far preferred seeing familiar objects and faces than seeing completely new everything, a la prequels. Its supposed to be the star wars universe after all. Why would it not have a familiar feel?
So thats my take on the movie. Right or wrong, thats how I saw it. I am going back on saturday, and expect it too feel slightly different the second time around. I think the problem with a lot of people who are disappointed is how old where you when you saw star wars. 99% of people on here saw it through the eyes of a child. How many of you broke it down so analytically at the time? There was no universe in situ. It was all 100% original. There have been nearly 40 years of expansion to the universe this film is set in. How do you create something completely unique and original in a universe so refined and expanded as the star wars universe is? I think they have done a good job.
My final point, a lot of you were worried about Disney making this film too Disney. Its far more Star Wars and far less Disney then The Phantom Menace was, and Disney didn't even make that.
