Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

[80s_collector]

P.S Always stick to buying Vintage Star Wars carded figures from very reputable long term dealers and you wont go far wrong...

With all due respect, this thread is about what you just said.

It seems that until this past week, Jeff was considered a "very reputable dealer".

Before him (and not saying they are 100% the same), Toy Toni was pretty reputable too. Same with Scott McWilliams, Billy Boy, etc.

All of the above have certainly "gone wrong".

Ian

In all fairness I can't comment on 3 of the above as I havnt been so active in SW for 15-20 years until recently, plus Ive never met them or had dealings with them, but I do read many topics on here and as for Toni, well he was pleasant, a good buyer of mine, he always paid and never messed me about, so in my eyes despite what many other people think about him, I found him ok.

 

[laurencedyer]

For example its like saying that years ago there were 96 different production figures on the market.......but now there are 500 different ones, why wouldnt we have seen the other 404 figures years ago.....if a product was made in 1977, you would see at least one in 1978, 79, 80 and 1981.....but when they only turn up on the market 20 or 30 years later you would wonder why..[/quote]

Agree to disagree there, I agree there are rake loads of AT-ST and Prune Face type characters but that is a sweeping statement.
My case find of baggies turned out many new and undocumented baggie type's, many of which have been used on the guide. For example, a whole new classification of baggies being the Palitoy U's. Also there where the first documented ROTJ - h Ree Yees and Admiral Akbar baggies, a common found bagged figure but never seen in that style before. That is just to name a few of one persons find.
New discoveries will keep on being made.

One further example of this is my Palitoy carrier bags. I don't know of a single collector who had previously seen one including yourself, I put one through Vectis to test the market last month and all of a sudden due to the strong price 2 more have come out of the woodwork for sale this week and there not from me.

 

[momike]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

 

[80s_collector]

For example its like saying that years ago there were 96 different production figures on the market.......but now there are 500 different ones, why wouldnt we have seen the other 404 figures years ago.....if a product was made in 1977, you would see at least one in 1978, 79, 80 and 1981.....but when they only turn up on the market 20 or 30 years later you would wonder why..

Agree to disagree there, I agree there are rake loads of AT-ST and Prune Face type characters but that is a sweeping statement.
My case find of baggies turned out many new and undocumented baggie type's, many of which have been used on the guide. For example, a whole new classification of baggies being the Palitoy U's. Also there where the first documented ROTJ - h Ree Yees and Admiral Akbar baggies, a common found bagged figure but never seen in that style before. That is just to name a few of one persons find.
New discoveries will keep on being made.

One further example of this is my Palitoy carrier bags. I don't know of a single collector who had previously seen one including yourself, I put one through Vectis to test the market last month and all of a sudden due to the strong price 2 more have come out of the woodwork for sale this week and there not from me.[/quote]

I agree that items do turn up which havn't been seen before and your case of baggies could have possibly held a few variants, but saying that a lot wasnt documented back in the day like it is today and it definately wasnt scrutinised like it is today either.
But the point Im getting across is there seems to be a lot more different variants of baggies on the market now than ever before, whereas with carded figures and boxed vehicles, the variants are really the same as ever before......get my point now a vehicle and a carded figure is a lot harder to fake than a baggie......and in all fairness years ago, anyone could peel the sellotape back on a baggie, swap the figures around and place the sellotape back in place and you would never know as the tape was still sticky back in the 80s and trust me Ive seen it done....

As for the carrier bags, yes I saw those two and I did chuckle......unbelievable 3 at once...I will say those are a lovely item...thanks for showing me it at CE...

 

[80s_collector]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

Actually your wrong, Im basically trying to educate many buyers into making them realise people have been easily faking baggies for years....its not a recent thing, its gone on for a long time......afterall its a standard figure and a common plastic bag.

Hence the reason if you saw my stand at CE, I didnt have one baggie on my stand as I have no confidence in any of them...Im quite happy to keep my reputable name.

 

[laurencedyer]

For example its like saying that years ago there were 96 different production figures on the market.......but now there are 500 different ones, why wouldnt we have seen the other 404 figures years ago.....if a product was made in 1977, you would see at least one in 1978, 79, 80 and 1981.....but when they only turn up on the market 20 or 30 years later you would wonder why..

Agree to disagree there, I agree there are rake loads of AT-ST and Prune Face type characters but that is a sweeping statement.
My case find of baggies turned out many new and undocumented baggie type's, many of which have been used on the guide. For example, a whole new classification of baggies being the Palitoy U's. Also there where the first documented ROTJ - h Ree Yees and Admiral Akbar baggies, a common found bagged figure but never seen in that style before. That is just to name a few of one persons find.
New discoveries will keep on being made.

One further example of this is my Palitoy carrier bags. I don't know of a single collector who had previously seen one including yourself, I put one through Vectis to test the market last month and all of a sudden due to the strong price 2 more have come out of the woodwork for sale this week and there not from me.

I agree that items do turn up which havn't been seen before and your case of baggies could have possibly held a few variants, but saying that a lot wasnt documented back in the day like it is today and it definately wasnt scrutinised like it is today either.
But the point Im getting across is there seems to be a lot more different variants of baggies on the market now than ever before, whereas with carded figures and boxed vehicles, the variants are really the same as ever before......get my point now a vehicle and a carded figure is a lot harder to fake than a baggie......and in all fairness years ago, anyone could peel the sellotape back on a baggie, swap the figures around and place the sellotape back in place and you would never know as the tape was still sticky back in the 80s and trust me Ive seen it done....

As for the carrier bags, yes I saw those two and I did chuckle......unbelievable 3 at once...I will say those are a lovely item...thanks for showing me it at CE...[/quote]

Point better made buddy.

 

[tiefighterboy]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

Actually your wrong, Im basically trying to educate many buyers into making them realise people have been easily faking baggies for years....its not a recent thing, its gone on for a long time......afterall its a standard figure and a common plastic bag.

Hence the reason if you saw my stand at CE, I didnt have one baggie on my stand as I have no confidence in any of them...Im quite happy to keep my reputable name.

People have been making repro weapons and cardbacks since the early 90s too. Not a real revelation.

 

[tobedesu]

80s_collector, to what scale would you say people were swapping figures from baggies back in the day?
It appears that it runs a lot deeper than Jeff's supposed dealings.
For collectors like myself, with no knowledge with baggies, it's a worry to get into this side of collecting.
It was only last year that I bought my only two carded ROTJ carded figures - one from this forum and another from NEC toy fair.
Having taken the plunge with MOC I still read up and researched but am not 100% confident.
Whilst i once thought about getting a few baggies, I feel I don't have the time to research them that I may be interested in.

 

[Ian_C]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

Actually your wrong, Im basically trying to educate many buyers into making them realise people have been easily faking baggies for years....its not a recent thing, its gone on for a long time......afterall its a standard figure and a common plastic bag.

I'm really not sure what the point is here.

There are more baggie variants known now for the same reason we now know multiple variants of Imperial blasters. 20 years ago, very few were documenting variants, as it just wasn't something really considered important back then. Beyond black and blue colours, a blaster was a blaster, and a baggie was a baggie for the majority of the collector world. Now, those niche areas of collecting have become more mainstream, and the added scrutiny has made defining the different types more common. The variants were always there - just now people look closer to see those differences. Same with cardbacks too. Gone are the days of just labeling something a 12 back, for example. Now, it has to be a 12A, 12B, etc.

Ian

 

[Floody]

One possible side effect of all this. There are quite a few more baggies than normal for sale on the Facebook groups.
People selling up before the fall out really hits?

 

[Starzone]

Have to agree with 80s collector on lots of points made in his initial post, being around "back in the day" as people say I've always wondered where all these palitoy baggies originated from?

I've bought 1000s of baggies from source, palitoy reps, toys shops in the late 80s/early 90s and mainly all mail away figures emperor, Numb etc, never had any last 17 or indeed saw any. The factory overstock I obtained were loose and without weapons. For that reason never had any confidence in them and declined to ever sell any that have appeared in the last 10 years.

Question for the Baggie experts....Did they mainly originate from Woolies 8-packs? Had a few of these and although I opened most back in the day and sold the contents as loose figures (don't shoot me I do regret it now) I don't remember any yak faces or rare last 17. Seem to remember the odd Baggie in each pack and the most weapons thrown in loose

I'm curious to learn more about them

Always seems to be questions asked on the authenticity of some baggies, there was in 90s and again in 2000s and if you search Rebelscum you'll find lots of old threads on baggies.

 

[CARTS2]

80s_collector

Some basic observations from down under ...,back in the period u described u simply didn't know what baggies were around, especially in the USA ..,,,there is literally 1000s apon 1000s of sealed packs out from US companies ie Sears, Wards , JC Penney, bought through their catalogs ....I imagine that 90% & more has been opened ....many many of these were kept in the plastic baggies ....I can't imagine the vast numbers ..,,I think I have opened 20 packs myself in the last few years from esb 10 pack to sw 2 pack .....as for the last 17 ....didn't most come stuff like playsets, special offers etc .....the vast majority of the baggies investigated were from these US companies', packs, playsets, vehicles, cases etc

I suggest you review franks guide attached on this site ...it will shock you how many baggies were produced & from so many different areas

 

[Starzone]

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1014175

Like I said lots of debates on Rebelscum over the years ....

Always make me sad when there is such negativity in the hobby.....collecting should be fun right ?

 

[palitoyjunky]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

Actually your wrong, Im basically trying to educate many buyers into making them realise people have been easily faking baggies for years....its not a recent thing, its gone on for a long time......afterall its a standard figure and a common plastic bag.

Hence the reason if you saw my stand at CE, I didnt have one baggie on my stand as I have no confidence in any of them...Im quite happy to keep my reputable name.

You also "didn't have one" SW character Palitoy 30 back on ur stand either. Oh yeh they were under the table :lol: They weren't being kept company by a load of Baggies were they? :lol: :lol:

Just a bit of vintage SW humour-soz I couldn't resist :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Starzone]

80s_collector

Some basic observations from down under ...,back in the period u described u simply didn't know what baggies were around, especially in the USA ..,,,there is literally 1000s apon 1000s of sealed packs out from US companies ie Sears, Wards , JC Penney, bought through their catalogs ....I imagine that 90% & more has been opened ....many many of these were kept in the plastic baggies ....I can't imagine the vast numbers ..,,I think I have opened 20 packs myself in the last few years from esb 10 pack to sw 2 pack .....as for the last 17 ....didn't most come stuff like playsets, special offers etc .....the vast majority of the baggies investigated were from these US companies', packs, playsets, vehicles, cases etc

I suggest you review franks guide attached on this site ...it will shock you how many baggies were produced & from so many different areas

Of course you're right, I'm talking specifically about Palitoy baggies.....where does a Luke's Stormtrooper, Yak face come from....Woolies packs ? Factory stock? Samples?

 

[edd_jedi]

It's a fair observation that was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I don't agree that baggies are so risky that they cannot be trusted. As said before the problem up til now has been lack of knowledge, people have been buying any old **** in a baggie (myself included) because we simply didn't know any better. That will have to change. But with the hard work from people like Frank documenting baggies from 100% concrete sources (eg sealed mailer packs, playsets, employee finds like Laurence's) I am confident fakes can be spotted fairly easily with the help of Frank's guide.

 

[edd_jedi]

By the way a week now since Frank made his post and still virtually nothing from Jeff...

 

[Andyclarke]

By the way a week now since Frank made his post and still virtually nothing from Jeff...

The silence is deafening.

 

[Andyclarke]

80scollevtor if I'm being honest I can't see what you have added to this thread other than what would seem to be a plug for business

Actually your wrong, Im basically trying to educate many buyers into making them realise people have been easily faking baggies for years....its not a recent thing, its gone on for a long time......afterall its a standard figure and a common plastic bag.

Hence the reason if you saw my stand at CE, I didnt have one baggie on my stand as I have no confidence in any of them...Im quite happy to keep my reputable name.

You also "didn't have one" SW character Palitoy 30 back on ur stand either. Oh yeh they were under the table :lol: They weren't being kept company by a load of Baggies were they? :lol: :lol:

Just a bit of vintage SW humour-soz I couldn't resist :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh Jon don't be naughty! Ian's gonna produce some pics soon, I have every faith in him.

 

[Ross_Barr]

By the way a week now since Frank made his post and still virtually nothing from Jeff...

Because he's a technophone. With an active eBay selling account that is also well versed in digital camera image capture and upload. And is probably reading this right now.

But he's afraid of technology.....