High Prices and Collecting Changes

[poncho]

I buy for me, what i like and what takes my fancy and what i can afford.

Got a loose beater dark legged han hoth this morning. Well chuffed. And i defrosted a beater moc today.....still enjoying the hunt

 

[poncho]

Had a look round on the 12 back fb group last week. :shock: high end stuff
they have deep pockets for sure! Cant believe the pieces and prices. I was tempted to post a pic of my only sw moc which is pretty rough and ripped but i thought i would get heckled and didnt bother :lol:

 

[Joe]

I don't think anyone is saying you can't have fun on a budget these days guys, in fact I think collecting on a budget should be encouraged because you can still enjoy it like a hobby that way and avoid all of the big shots. I think Max was aiming this thread towards the high end items & indeed, the high end collectors of today though..the ones that are pulling thousands of dollars out of their arses on what seems like a weekly basis :lol:

I'm easily pleased with collecting, I get just as much enjoyment out of a 1995 Topps card as I do an expensive 80's prototype because at the end of the day I'm building a collection that I enjoy and get a kick out of looking at. None of my stuff is for sale (not even at the right price) and I only sell out of necessity.

 

[stormcab]

I agree a lot of people are buying for the hand claps after the showcase. I caught myself leaning that way a couple of times "it's been a while since anyone congratulated me, time to buy another MOC". But that only lasts half a day if you're lucky, and I remember several times posting some lovely pieces on here after weeks of nothing of note had appeared, only for someone to post an even more impressive piece immediately after me and I was invisible .

Can't see the prices ever going down, as most of us collectors won't want to let our pieces ever go, and more fans will appear with the introduction of each new film and the frenzy that surrounds it. Some of us will probably be tempted to eventually let a few bits go as pieces become so rare that people are paying £500 for a ROTJ Rancor Keeper AFA 70, thus anything we have that is even slightly rare might buy us a nice car.

A thing I will point out though is some pieces are going for well below expected prices. Off the top of my head an AFA 85 Greedo Palitoy 20 Back, and Straight 85s 12 Back SP Palitoy went for less than £900 at auction on eBay. In these cases I think a lot of people just dismiss watching them as they think they'll easily be going £1500-2000, thus they don't get their possible numbers fighting over them. I was one of them. I would have almost certainly upgraded my Greedo AFA 75 and SP AFA 80 for those in a heartbeat, but like I said, didn't follow it close enough as I knew I'd have no chance.

 

[theforceuk]

I'm trying to put a beater loose run together for my son at the moment, evan those prices I struggle with on eBay. £10 for a popular caractor no weapon and well beaton up.

I pm Iian when it's his birthday or Christmas and Iian always comes good with 3 or 4 beaters delivered for under £10. :wink:

 

[Bonsai_Tree_Ent]

Max's original point is about selling one item to fund another.

There are two ways of doing this, and the first way is the modus operandi I used to build my collection. Buy big job lots on Ebay, badly photographed, ending at a bad time of day, and filled with all sorts - figures, weapons, half broken mini rigs, maybe even a few figures from other toy lines in there. Get them for a good price, clean them all up, and keep whatever choice pieces I needed for my collection, then sell the rest individually. What you keep pays for itself and if you're lucky sometimes even more.

The second way, is the one that Max identifies as a bit more of a concern. That is selling a choice item - something you had always intended to keep - but you need to sell it to fund another purchase. That to me is a bit more of an issue, as it shows you are skating a fine line with your finances, and also that you might regret one day parting with that piece. Sometimes even selling on the piece after owning it for less than a year, suggests that maybe the collector shouldn't have bought it in the first place.*

*Although sometimes a w**ker seller will start a sales pitch with words to the effect of "I really don't want to let this piece go but..." and whenever you read that you smell the bullshit. It's just a sales tactic to try and hold more power in the sellers hands. Of course the knobjockey wants to sell it, he just wants to get top dollar.

 

[olisuds]

Max's original point is about selling one item to fund another.

There are two ways of doing this, and the first way is the modus operandi I used to build my collection. Buy big job lots on Ebay, badly photographed, ending at a bad time of day, and filled with all sorts - figures, weapons, half broken mini rigs, maybe even a few figures from other toy lines in there. Get them for a good price, clean them all up, and keep whatever choice pieces I needed for my collection, then sell the rest individually. What you keep pays for itself and if you're lucky sometimes even more.

Matt I think it depends a great deal on what you collect. I'm sure thats fine with loose figures but it's just not possible with pre production or rare/foreign production stuff. You can't just pick that kind of stuff up by the bucket load and sell of your spares. Well at least not these days anyway.

The second way, is the one that Max identifies as a bit more of a concern. That is selling a choice item - something you had always intended to keep - but you need to sell it to fund another purchase. That to me is a bit more of an issue, as it shows you are skating a fine line with your finances, and also that you might regret one day parting with that piece. Sometimes even selling on the piece after owning it for less than a year, suggests that maybe the collector shouldn't have bought it in the first place.*

I don't know if I agree so much with this either. I've had to sell choice items from my collection in order to fund other pieces. I don't think it shows you are skating a thin line with your finances, i actually think it's quite sensible and shows you are willing to budget strictly and make sacrifices. I'd personally be more alarmed at the person who wants to keep it all and needs to take out a payment plan to fund the growth of their collection.

Also as i've found over the last few years, sometimes you might embark on runs which you slowly come to appreciate are impossible or unrealistic to complete. I've sometimes been willing to sacrifice a piece from that in return for a piece that advances another run.

When I started collecting pre production I slowly learnt it's a slow road unless you have something to trade. Perhaps its just my impatience. I found it helpful to acquire a few pieces i really liked but that i was willing to trade if the pieces i needed came up. Funnily enough over the last year so may people seem to be cashing in, that trade bait seems to be less useful. More and more people are wanting cold hard cash. When you end up acquiring the pieces you want for cash it's reasonable to sell off some of your trade bait.

Both of these scenarios might give others the impression they are fickle collectors but unfortunately it seems like the only way to advance a run these days. Unless you are very patient. And even then there's no guarantees.

 

[lejackal]

I'm still in the very early stages of collecting and have a strict budget, even more so at the minute, but do buy and sell quite a bit. I look at this as the must try a bit of everything and see what fits best.
I would always rather buy something and keep it until something else comes along that I want more than sit on cash in Paypal so I suppose it is a bit of a savings account towards other toys and should the poop hit the proverbial I'll sell items rather than go without or use debt to get by if possible.

 

[Bonsai_Tree_Ent]

Matt I think it depends a great deal on what you collect.

Yes, this is true. The pre-production stuff has its own little 'micro-climate', and take your point also about trade bait!

 

[Ian_C]

The majority of people who have joined the hobby in the last couple of years through FB groups are exposed to how the community treats the "big spenders" and how those big ticket purchases raise their profile in the hobby.

I don't get this. Anyone with deep pockets can buy up expensive items. It doesn't make me respect them as collectors. Having knowledge about the hobby beyond the item you're currently buying, and helping others learn about it, are the ways I gain respect for people. Hell, I have more respect for the quiet people who have modest beater collections and obviously love what they're doing over the speculators buying and flipping ad nauseum.

Over the last year and a half, I have found myself in some financial difficulties. A collection I never dreamed I would ever part with has become my saviour in some tough times. And without fail, my top pieces I have been forced to sell have been graded and flipped within months, and sometimes weeks. I appreciate the sale I made, as it helped me when I needed it, but it's hard to watch something I cherished so much (POTF Yak, GDE DS Commander, DT Vader, etc.) get sold and then moved on so quickly. I managed to get my DS Commander back, but Yak was graded and flipped 3 months after I sold it. My DT Vader lasted about 6 weeks - just enough time for a case job from AFA. In every case, the buyer of my pieces said "they intended to keep them, but have to fund another piece that better fits their focus". I want to take people at their word, but when it's every single seller, you start to question it. And really, no offence to the person who bought it, but you really spent almost 4K on a figure and it took 6 WEEKS to determine it couldn't be kept?

*Although sometimes a w**ker seller will start a sales pitch with words to the effect of "I really don't want to let this piece go but..." and whenever you read that you smell the bullshit. It's just a sales tactic to try and hold more power in the sellers hands. Of course the knobjockey wants to sell it, he just wants to get top dollar.

In most cases, I agree with you Matt, but in my recent sales, I have actually pretty much used this EXACT line. But it's true, I really DIDN'T want to sell. It broke my heart each time. No sales tactic, I just post openly how I feel. I have a hard time just making it a straight business transaction, because to me, they're not pieces of inventory I exchange for cash, but personal loved items I am reluctantly letting go. I have high prices on stuff, but it's not greed. It's part sentimental attachment (ie. if I HAVE to sell, I only want to do so if I can get the most for it), and the thought that the more I can get per piece, the less I have to sell overall. As soon as my needs are met at home, all the rest of the figures I have for sale will be pulled off the market.

Ian

 

[Bonsai_Tree_Ent]

In most cases, I agree with you Matt, but in my recent sales, I have actually pretty much used this EXACT line. But it's true, I really DIDN'T want to sell. It broke my heart each time.

Now im feeling bad! It's one of those sales pitches that has been so over-used by slimy sellers that on the rare occasion when it is said with honesty... sorry Ian I know you are a heartfelt guy and I know you know my intention was not to tar any of the 'good guys' with that brush.

Also it is a kick in the teeth that your choice pieces were flipped so fast. That really goes to the heart of what the OP was saying. This hobby cant be about that - Buy a piece, AFA it, limelight it for likes / marketing, then sell it for a profit - all within a few weeks?!*

*Also a bit jealous as I would love to have given your DT Vader a permanent home!!

 

[Andyclarke]

Good thoughtful post Max.

At the end of the day I don't buy any item that I don't think I can move on for at least the same price. I can't afford to throw big money around, I have to make sure the money's there if I ever need to sell.
At the moment I'm relatively comfortable so the collection grows but I always have to temper my enthusiasm knowing my family comes first and if I need to sell a piece to help fund a holiday or pay for a new boiler then that must take priority. I've been in a position in the past were I built up Credit card debts chasing pieces but I'm much wiser this time round. If I'd not pushed myself first time round I'm convinced I'd have a collection now not far off Gary's.
What does irk me is when people come on here looking for valuation requests and they get told about ridiculous freak sale prices (One offs) from ebay, Vectis Facebook etc. That does no favours to anyone. The potential seller goes away with completely unrealistic expectations and the forum users don't get to buy any of this stuff at fair prices. Remember the sale prices on here should always be 10% cheaper than eBay and 40% cheaper than Vectis as the seller would get back the equivalent money. Let's look after the forum members who generally are on here for all the right reasons which is the love of Star Wars and Star Wars toys. Surely it's much better that nice pieces end up in our hands and displayed within our community than lost in some celebrity/rich person's collection never to be appreciated or seen again.

 

[olisuds]

In most cases, I agree with you Matt, but in my recent sales, I have actually pretty much used this EXACT line. But it's true, I really DIDN'T want to sell. It broke my heart each time.

Now im feeling bad! It's one of those sales pitches that has been so over-used by slimy sellers that on the rare occasion when it is said with honesty... sorry Ian I know you are a heartfelt guy and I know you know my intention was not to tar any of the 'good guys' with that brush.

Also it is a kick in the teeth that your choice pieces were flipped so fast. That really goes to the heart of what the OP was saying. This hobby cant be about that - Buy a piece, AFA it, limelight it for likes / marketing, then sell it for a profit - all within a few weeks?!*

*Also a bit jealous as I would love to have given your DT Vader a permanent home!!

I think you both make a good point. You are right Matt that sellers sometimes use it to justify overpricing an item but at the same time genuine sellers use it to prevent buyers low balling them. Sometimes buyers sense a sellers desperation for immediate cash and will take advantage of the situation.

On a number of occassions when I've had to shift something quickly to raise funds for something else, I've had well below par offers from buyers saying something along the lines of "Hey I know its a lot less than the asking price but if you need cash quickly I can pay you X straight away". The alternative might be selling something on a payment plan which sometimes doesn't help your immediate need. Stating that you are in no rush to sell or that you really don't want to sell a piece is a good way of telling lowballers to **** off and not try it on

At the end of the day some buyers try it on just as much as some sellers.

 

[itfciain]

At the end of the day I don't buy any item that I don't think I can move on for at least the same price. I can't afford to throw big money around, I have to make sure the money's there if I ever need to sell.

I agree 100% with this - maybe it is the salesman/dealer in me, but I rarely pay market or above market price for anything - however much I want it (Hybrid CCP might be an exception)

I find a lot of the people playing at being 'a dealer' these days have basically just gotten lucky - they can purchase high end items and then move them on for profit seemingly every time. It reminds me of the housing programmes in the late 90s where people would buy a house - paint it pink, add glass walls and a silver bidet and still make a crap of money load because the prices in the housing market was just going up and up

Grading has a lot to do with this - as Ian has highlighted - there are people buying up items from long term / trusted sellers (so authenticity is guaranteed), getting them graded and then selling on for a large profit to those who need the comfort blanket of an AFA/UKG label to make a big purchase. I find it pretty sad that having one of these labels seems to add a couple of hundred quid to really nice items that would display just as well in your own case (and can be removed if you ever need to transport them)

 

[Joe]

Iain, thought I might as well ask here as it's related to the subject we are discussing but did you not recently sell a Nikto sample for $2500 only for the buyer to list it for trade or $3500 months later? It's that kind of thing that snowballs the prices, why buy it for $2500 if you don't particularly want it and are going to bump the price up by a thousand dollars for the next chump that comes along who then won't settle for less than that when he comes to sell (and may even add his own profit on top?).

It must be awful for you as a decent seller when you try to price your items fairly for collectors only to see them back up for sale for much more than you were charging shortly after selling them.

 

[Andyclarke]

Iain, thought I might as well ask here as it's related to the subject we are discussing but did you not recently sell a Nikto sample for $2500 only for the buyer to list it for trade or $3500 months later? It's that kind of thing that snowballs the prices, why buy it for $2500 if you don't particularly want it and are going to bump the price up by a thousand dollars for the next chump that comes along who then won't settle for less than that when he comes to sell (and may even add his own profit on top?).

It must be awful for you as a decent seller when you try to price your items fairly for collectors only to see them back up for sale for much more than you were charging shortly after selling them.

Haha interesting. :lol: I'm not sure Iain would have wanted you to publish this info as he bought that piece from me for considerably less only weeks before. Not that I'm bothered, my fault for not doing enough research.

 

[spoons]

The majority of people who have joined the hobby in the last couple of years through FB groups are exposed to how the community treats the "big spenders" and how those big ticket purchases raise their profile in the hobby.

I don't get this. Anyone with deep pockets can buy up expensive items. It doesn't make me respect them as collectors. Having knowledge about the hobby beyond the item you're currently buying, and helping others learn about it, are the ways I gain respect for people. Hell, I have more respect for the quiet people who have modest beater collections and obviously love what they're doing over the speculators buying and flipping ad nauseum.

Over the last year and a half, I have found myself in some financial difficulties. A collection I never dreamed I would ever part with has become my saviour in some tough times. And without fail, my top pieces I have been forced to sell have been graded and flipped within months, and sometimes weeks. I appreciate the sale I made, as it helped me when I needed it, but it's hard to watch something I cherished so much (POTF Yak, GDE DS Commander, DT Vader, etc.) get sold and then moved on so quickly. I managed to get my DS Commander back, but Yak was graded and flipped 3 months after I sold it. My DT Vader lasted about 6 weeks - just enough time for a case job from AFA. In every case, the buyer of my pieces said "they intended to keep them, but have to fund another piece that better fits their focus". I want to take people at their word, but when it's every single seller, you start to question it. And really, no offence to the person who bought it, but you really spent almost 4K on a figure and it took 6 WEEKS to determine it couldn't be kept?

*Although sometimes a w**ker seller will start a sales pitch with words to the effect of "I really don't want to let this piece go but..." and whenever you read that you smell the bullshit. It's just a sales tactic to try and hold more power in the sellers hands. Of course the knobjockey wants to sell it, he just wants to get top dollar.

In most cases, I agree with you Matt, but in my recent sales, I have actually pretty much used this EXACT line. But it's true, I really DIDN'T want to sell. It broke my heart each time. No sales tactic, I just post openly how I feel. I have a hard time just making it a straight business transaction, because to me, they're not pieces of inventory I exchange for cash, but personal loved items I am reluctantly letting go. I have high prices on stuff, but it's not greed. It's part sentimental attachment (ie. if I HAVE to sell, I only want to do so if I can get the most for it), and the thought that the more I can get per piece, the less I have to sell overall. As soon as my needs are met at home, all the rest of the figures I have for sale will be pulled off the market.

Ian

That is really sad Ian, the practice does seem to be getting more prevalent and as others have said I do think Facebook and limelights have a part to play. People buy these big ticket items, have 5 mins of glory and then sell as they only really wanted the kudos not the item.

Thankfully there are also a lot of good guys out there too, and a lot of them are on here.

 

[itfciain]

Iain, thought I might as well ask here as it's related to the subject we are discussing but did you not recently sell a Nikto sample for $2500 only for the buyer to list it for trade or $3500 months later? It's that kind of thing that snowballs the prices, why buy it for $2500 if you don't particularly want it and are going to bump the price up by a thousand dollars for the next chump that comes along who then won't settle for less than that when he comes to sell (and may even add his own profit on top?).

It must be awful for you as a decent seller when you try to price your items fairly for collectors only to see them back up for sale for much more than you were charging shortly after selling them.

Actually that one up for offer was not the one I sold (if we're thinking of the same one - which I am sure we are) - but I was surprised at the price that was being asked for it

Oh - and I didn't sell mine for $2500 either

 

[Joe]

Iain, thought I might as well ask here as it's related to the subject we are discussing but did you not recently sell a Nikto sample for $2500 only for the buyer to list it for trade or $3500 months later? It's that kind of thing that snowballs the prices, why buy it for $2500 if you don't particularly want it and are going to bump the price up by a thousand dollars for the next chump that comes along who then won't settle for less than that when he comes to sell (and may even add his own profit on top?).

It must be awful for you as a decent seller when you try to price your items fairly for collectors only to see them back up for sale for much more than you were charging shortly after selling them.

Actually that one up for offer was not the one I sold (if we're thinking of the same one - which I am sure we are) - but I was surprised at the price that was being asked for it

Oh - and I didn't sell mine for $2500 either

Actually I've just checked myself and you are right, my mistake. We are thinking of the same one though, listed for $4999 on eBay but it had a "discount" price of $3500 on FB :lol:

Sorry about the mistake on your selling price too, was $2500 your asking price? I just remember it didn't hang about for long that's all!

 

[itfciain]

Iain, thought I might as well ask here as it's related to the subject we are discussing but did you not recently sell a Nikto sample for $2500 only for the buyer to list it for trade or $3500 months later? It's that kind of thing that snowballs the prices, why buy it for $2500 if you don't particularly want it and are going to bump the price up by a thousand dollars for the next chump that comes along who then won't settle for less than that when he comes to sell (and may even add his own profit on top?).

It must be awful for you as a decent seller when you try to price your items fairly for collectors only to see them back up for sale for much more than you were charging shortly after selling them.

Actually that one up for offer was not the one I sold (if we're thinking of the same one - which I am sure we are) - but I was surprised at the price that was being asked for it

Oh - and I didn't sell mine for $2500 either

Actually I've just checked myself and you are right, my mistake. We are thinking of the same one though, listed for $4999 on eBay but it had a "discount" price of $3500 on FB :lol:

Sorry about the mistake on your selling price too, was $2500 your asking price? I just remember it didn't hang about for long that's all!

Yes, $2500 was asking price - but I took less than that