tiefighterboy
Grand Master
Why bring it up after a year has passed? I am confused.
When you leave a deposit and back out should you be refunded
- Thread starter Dark Sith Lord
- Start date
itfciain
Grand Master
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 7,907
I can't believe what I have been reading on both here and RS about this - presented with the information we have been given so far I am amazed at how many people think it is OK for a seller to keep the best part of £180 given as a deposit - especially when told that the buyer is having serious issues in his personal life.
I just want to state for the record that anyone who gives me a deposit and then needs it back is more than welcome to it - this is a hobby and I am not a business
I just want to state for the record that anyone who gives me a deposit and then needs it back is more than welcome to it - this is a hobby and I am not a business
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
I agree that most people on this site would give a refund in light of the circumstances stated in the original post on RS but it in general terms "deposits" are not an open and closed case in terms of how they are handled. There is not necessarily a set protocol. It can depend very much on "situations" and on the terms upon which the deal has been agreed. Assuming terms have been agreed in the first place.
I have been on both ends of this. Buyers being very late on payment or changes their minds on a deal can have serious repercussions for people. Its great to empathise with the person who might lose their deposit in any situation but put it this way:
1. The potential buyer pays a deposit on items.
2. The seller then (believing quite rightly that his items are sold) puts a deposit down on an item they want.
3. Buyer then pulls out.
4. Seller is screwed.
Does the seller get any sympathy for their situation? That might sound harsh but that is the plain and simple truth of it. A deposit in my opinion is a declaration of someones genuine commitment to buy an item(s) and in the same way it "holds" the items for the buyer. Its a two way street. Its one hell of a one way street if a potential buyer can put a deposit down saying "put them on hold and I will complete the payment plan in x amount of months" only to turn round a month or two down the line to say "sorry, scrap that I cant honour it." The seller could have missed leads to sell the items and may also be landed in a whole heap of bother with anyone they might be buying from.
Personally, IMO the Best thing to do is not to over commit in the first place. If you cant afford it dont commit to it and if you are buying high end items: Have a plan A a plan B and if both of those fail start selling items like mad and show the person you have made a deal with, that you are a man of your word and that you want to honour the deal. Lets not promote flakey handshakes. Its not helpful to anyone.
I am not saying any of the above applies to the guy who posted on RS. I dont know his circumstances from Adam. I only mean to respond to the title of this thread.
I can assure you that this is not a jab at you Iain in any way. I just think it is really important that people do their upmost to honour deals. If you want to spend serious money on anything then for gods sake; be serious about it. Whether its toys or cars or whatever.
I have been on both ends of this. Buyers being very late on payment or changes their minds on a deal can have serious repercussions for people. Its great to empathise with the person who might lose their deposit in any situation but put it this way:
1. The potential buyer pays a deposit on items.
2. The seller then (believing quite rightly that his items are sold) puts a deposit down on an item they want.
3. Buyer then pulls out.
4. Seller is screwed.
Does the seller get any sympathy for their situation? That might sound harsh but that is the plain and simple truth of it. A deposit in my opinion is a declaration of someones genuine commitment to buy an item(s) and in the same way it "holds" the items for the buyer. Its a two way street. Its one hell of a one way street if a potential buyer can put a deposit down saying "put them on hold and I will complete the payment plan in x amount of months" only to turn round a month or two down the line to say "sorry, scrap that I cant honour it." The seller could have missed leads to sell the items and may also be landed in a whole heap of bother with anyone they might be buying from.
Personally, IMO the Best thing to do is not to over commit in the first place. If you cant afford it dont commit to it and if you are buying high end items: Have a plan A a plan B and if both of those fail start selling items like mad and show the person you have made a deal with, that you are a man of your word and that you want to honour the deal. Lets not promote flakey handshakes. Its not helpful to anyone.
I am not saying any of the above applies to the guy who posted on RS. I dont know his circumstances from Adam. I only mean to respond to the title of this thread.
I can assure you that this is not a jab at you Iain in any way. I just think it is really important that people do their upmost to honour deals. If you want to spend serious money on anything then for gods sake; be serious about it. Whether its toys or cars or whatever.
tiefighterboy
Grand Master
His family problems were over a year ago. I would give money back to any of you....but to complain about it a year after the fact is a little strange and way off on timing.
Last month I put down a $900 deposit for an item and I fully expected that if I backed out of the deal I would loose the deposit. We discussed the purpose of the deposit - it was non refundable but we agreed conditions.
If the seller has taken the item off the market and rejected offers and bids from other sellers - they have committed to sell it to you.
Why should the seller accept a deposit but still be liable for the buyers risks.
If the seller has taken the item off the market and rejected offers and bids from other sellers - they have committed to sell it to you.
Why should the seller accept a deposit but still be liable for the buyers risks.
Dark Sith Lord
Grand Master
There seems there is more to this then meets the eye 
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1086661/
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1086661/
CRAZYHAZY
Jedi Master
jackabina said:
Me too!
JuniorChubb
Sith Lord
Dark Sith Lord said:There seems there is more to this then meets the eye
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1086661/
Bloody hell, I am now more confused than a cow on a field of astroturf...
Yes it is getting a little confusing. This story has got more twists than a bag of pretzels. As we can see from this whole debate there are many sides to every arguement. It sounds like the seller is a bit of a scammer and the buyer is a bit unreliable and selective with the truth.
I'm not saying deposits shouldn't be returned. I just think that the seller is not obliged to return it. However friends and compasionate reasons are always the exception. On the flip side you need to appreciate the sellers situation. He has secured this item for you and is perhaps relying on the money for another deal. Backing out may leave him in a difficult situation through no fault of his own. The non refundable deposit makes people think a little harder before entering into a deal if they have financial concerns and it encourages people not to back out at the slightest little problem they encounter. If a deposit is needed more often than not we are talking about fairly large sums of money. Its all well and good if you know the guy to be a little more forgiving but if its a complete stranger then its fair enough for the seller to protect himself against the risks.
If in doubt I think the rule of thumb is to discuss the purpose and terms of the deposit before agreeing a deal involving large sums of money. There is no reason why you can't discuss or negotiate terms to the deposit agreement.
I'm not saying deposits shouldn't be returned. I just think that the seller is not obliged to return it. However friends and compasionate reasons are always the exception. On the flip side you need to appreciate the sellers situation. He has secured this item for you and is perhaps relying on the money for another deal. Backing out may leave him in a difficult situation through no fault of his own. The non refundable deposit makes people think a little harder before entering into a deal if they have financial concerns and it encourages people not to back out at the slightest little problem they encounter. If a deposit is needed more often than not we are talking about fairly large sums of money. Its all well and good if you know the guy to be a little more forgiving but if its a complete stranger then its fair enough for the seller to protect himself against the risks.
If in doubt I think the rule of thumb is to discuss the purpose and terms of the deposit before agreeing a deal involving large sums of money. There is no reason why you can't discuss or negotiate terms to the deposit agreement.
The whole 'deposits' thing is a grey area and a question of ettiquette. Assuming, of course, you havent sat down and agreed the exact terms before sending it.
If it was someone on here I would most probably refund with no problems. If it was someone on Ebay etc I would be hesitant to. I have been on the receiving end of a few of these and as others have said it is a ****ing pain in the ass. For the record, when it happened to me there were no deposits involved.
Strictly speaking I think James is right, the 'deposit' is/should be treated as non refundable. It's the buyers protection against getting ****ed about. But, given the personal circumstances there is a window for the seller to do the perceived 'right thing' and refund a fellow collector who's fallen on hard times.
I would also point out that a lot of times buyers and sellers come up with hard luck stories, ie bullshit, just as a way out. We've all seen/heard the old 'sorry I dropped the item it's no longer for sale' or the 'my cars just broken down' excuse etc. Sadly honestly is a scarce commidty these days.
The best bet is to establish ground rules before embarking on a complicated transaction and that way everyone knows where they stand.
If it was someone on here I would most probably refund with no problems. If it was someone on Ebay etc I would be hesitant to. I have been on the receiving end of a few of these and as others have said it is a ****ing pain in the ass. For the record, when it happened to me there were no deposits involved.
Strictly speaking I think James is right, the 'deposit' is/should be treated as non refundable. It's the buyers protection against getting ****ed about. But, given the personal circumstances there is a window for the seller to do the perceived 'right thing' and refund a fellow collector who's fallen on hard times.
I would also point out that a lot of times buyers and sellers come up with hard luck stories, ie bullshit, just as a way out. We've all seen/heard the old 'sorry I dropped the item it's no longer for sale' or the 'my cars just broken down' excuse etc. Sadly honestly is a scarce commidty these days.
The best bet is to establish ground rules before embarking on a complicated transaction and that way everyone knows where they stand.
I agree with your sentiment Iain, but as Weasel says there are no black and white scenarios here, you have to decide based on the circumstances. In this case, it sounds like the guy ****ed him around, he went to effort to source the things for him (at his own expense/time) and from his patchy story is a bit of a liability/possibly liar. In this instance, I think it's fair to keep it.
Of course if somebody I knew was a decent guy and genuinely ran in to financial difficulty, I would of course give it back, at my discretion.
I don't think it's fair to say everyone saying he shouldn't get it refunded is greedy.
Of course if somebody I knew was a decent guy and genuinely ran in to financial difficulty, I would of course give it back, at my discretion.
I don't think it's fair to say everyone saying he shouldn't get it refunded is greedy.
JuniorChubb
Sith Lord
olisuds said:
A great recipe for disaster...
itfciain
Grand Master
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 7,907
I agree that deals of this nature need to be thought out well at the start - and then you get no grey areas. I have been on the end of people promising to purchase and then not going through with it (and for that matter I have also been one of those people who has over committed to too many items and delayed paying people because of this )
However, what I do not understand, in this case, is the justification to keep £185 of someone's money - no terms were agreed and the other guy, as far as I know was not operating as a business. I also do not see where the original poster lied either - he had problems, asked for his money back because his wife was ill at the time, didn't get it, is now in a better position financially and would like to purchase again - where has he lied ?
I appreciate what Weasel is saying about people who claim all of these different problems when they are just an excuse and we have all had it happen. However, I will always give people the benefit of the doubt - I am a big believer in Karma - treat others how you would wish to be treated
Anyway, my issue isn't really with anyone on here, but with certain posters on RS who seem to want to find the worst in the situation and then believe they have the right to cast judgement over people
)However, what I do not understand, in this case, is the justification to keep £185 of someone's money - no terms were agreed and the other guy, as far as I know was not operating as a business. I also do not see where the original poster lied either - he had problems, asked for his money back because his wife was ill at the time, didn't get it, is now in a better position financially and would like to purchase again - where has he lied ?
I appreciate what Weasel is saying about people who claim all of these different problems when they are just an excuse and we have all had it happen. However, I will always give people the benefit of the doubt - I am a big believer in Karma - treat others how you would wish to be treated
Anyway, my issue isn't really with anyone on here, but with certain posters on RS who seem to want to find the worst in the situation and then believe they have the right to cast judgement over people
