What to do when a parcel doesnt turn up in the post!

[olisuds]

Hi All, I just wanted to get your opinions on what a seller should do in this scenario.

I sold a couple of figures before christmas and posted them on 15th December to a guy in the USA. The total value of the figures was £400. They were sent by Royal Mail International Signed for delivery (which for the USA costs about £8) as I like to get proof they they have been received. Its also worth mentioning that in my "For Sale" advert I stated that "Items sent by Royal Mail signed for delivery unless additional insurance requested which will cost extra" (Royal mail signed for only insures to the value of £40). Additional insurance cover or alternative methods of shipping were not offered or requested.

I usually advise that shipping via Royal Mail International Signed for delievry from UK to USA takes anywhere from 1 week to 3 weeks (certainly 3 weeks is not uncommon). I find delivery time can vary greatly depending on customs clearance and with Christmas and New Years hols a further delay would not be unusual.

So its just over 3 weeks since I posted and I wouldnt usually be alarmed at this point but the buyer has been quite eager and this has led me to keep an eye on the tracking updates and now I'm feeling a little anxious myself.

Royal mail Track & Trace gives the following update:

Your item has reached destination country. Your item, posted on 15/12/12 with reference RJ989081183GB has been passed to the overseas postal service for delivery in UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

USPS Track and confirm gives the following update:

We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece. Origin Post is Preparing Shipment.

But still no delivery yet!

So my questions are:

(1) What the hell do these tracking updates mean to you?

(2) if the package doesnt turn up what do I do (presuming the tracking shows as not being delivered / signed for)

(3) And i guess I'm also interested to know what should I do in the same scenario if the tracking shows it has been delivered / signed for but the seller hasn't received it still.

I am writing this because I have never had a package go missing in 3 years of selling and whilst there is still plenty of opportunity for it to turn up I want to ensure that in the event it doesnt turn up, i do the right thing and my judgement isn't clouded by the thought of being out of pocket. And even if the parcel turns up I would realy like to know what to do in the future if this situation ever came up. It might also make me think a little more about how I conduct my sales on high value items in the future to minimise the risks of being out of pocket.

So what are your opinions?

 

[Joe]

If both sites are showing the package is with the postal service in the country it was meant to be delivered to then the buyer really needs to get on the phone or very least be sending emails to find out why it hasn't been delivered.

This might sound harsh but for me, as a seller you have done what was asked of you Oli. You can of course do your best to contact Royal Mail for the buyer and see what they say but if it has been passed over that is all they will tell you no matter how many times you ask.

 

[plantman]

You just have to prey that that tracking updates itself when it does get delivered, otherwise you may have to refund him if he says they havnt arrived.

Although he should do the chasing as its easier, he will see it as your problem not his.

Even if they get delivered after 5 weeks you would have to try and re-open the claim, i would change your methods and ONLY post fully insured, it only takes one event like this to make you rethink...and i have done the same lol.

i dont give the buyer the tracking number so he cant weigh up his chances of saying it hasnt arrived, ive saved my bacon a couple of times saying the tracking has a signature "so we need to contact USPS and local police for a theft case" the package suddenly appears.

I use fedex now, full tracking right to their door, if they dont want to pay for it them tough, if its under say £50 ill use royal mail.

also, when you list on ebay tick the "will post worldwide" box but dont fill the postage info in, and request that international bidders get a quote from you first.

 

[walkie]

Shipping to and from the states has been very slow imho since the middle of December, i've had stuff travelling each way.

Sorry for not reading the whole thread first, but has your buyer contacted the local sorting offer with the tracking number?

 

[olisuds]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

I hasten to add the guy that I'm dealing with seems like a nice enough bloke and I have no reason to doubt him or not trust him.

No I don't believe the buyer has contacted his local post office with the tracking details but that is a great idea. So far its just been me that has called the Royal Mail Customer Services and they suggested giving it until 24th Jan.

I guess I'd feel a little pissed at being out £400 when I give buyers the option of paying more for full insurance. Is it my responsibility?

But at the same time I wouldnt be happy if I was the buyer and handed over £400 and didnt get anything for it.

Andy thats a good idea about keeping hold of the tracking details and not giving them to the buyer. I guess the only problem is if the buyer asks for the tracking details and you dont give them to him he may doubt you have actually posted it.

And if the parcel turned up on his door step and he knows he hasnt signed for it, he could still easily claim it hadnt arrived and request his money back. I certainly dont suspect the guy would do this - he sounds very decent.

So regarding insurance, who is the insurance intended for? The buyer of the seller?

Is it my responsibility to give him a full refund when my advert states "Items sent by Royal Mail signed for delivery unless additional insurance requested which will cost extra". If the delivery is still my responsibility then it seems like a pointless statement to make.

And if I was to refund him, what happens if the package turns up later and now the buyer has both the package and the money.

 

[plantman]

Dont give him the tracking number and if they ask just say it stored in your business database ect, you dont have to give them it, then just add it to the listing when its been delivered.

Insurance is the sellers responsibility, giving them the "option to have no insurance" doesnt mean a thing, if it goes missing you are forced to refund them and claim yourself for what you insured it for, so always demand insurance and tracking.

This is the BIG problem with royal mail, postage can take up to 5 weeks, by then they can open a claim and have a refund, the tracking doesnt always work, and to submit a claim takes months as they have to contact US services and wait for replies ect.

if the item gets delivered after say 10 weeks due to error, are you really still going to be checking? if you do then you have to contact paypal and ask them nicely to reverse the refund, even then the buyer could sign it with another name and say he still never got it.

posting £400 via fedex with insurance would be expensive but probably worth it in the end as you get email updates when the status changes.

just a bit of food for thought.

at the end of the day if he doesnt get it you will be refunding him the full lot and claiming £40 back off royal mail

 

[olisuds]

at the end of the day if he doesnt get it you will be refunding him the full lot and claiming £40 back off royal mail

Thanks Andy, Well I guess that's what i expected to hear and were my feelings too. I just didnt want to hand over £400 with out at least checking.

I really wonder how many sellers would do the same though.

How long would you recommend waiting on this before discussing a refund?

 

[plantman]

international Parcels near xmas will get delayed, i would think 5 weeks you start to discuss what the best option is, but i bet if he contacts USPS they will tell him to hang on for all the excess parcels to pass through, i bet loads came through the first few days in Jan after the hols.

 

[Richard_H]

Personally i would give him the number and ask him to chase it up. Some of the responses above I would find suspicious. It's not if he can chase it up, collect the item, sign for it and then deny he has it - can he?

 

[edd_jedi]

I agree with Joe. I sell a lot of stuff to other countries, and as long as I have shipped it promptly and given the buyer the tracking number, it is their responsibility to do all 'chasing' unless enough time has passed for it to be considered lost. This time is 21 days in the UK, so I'd say more like 2 or 3 months overseas.

 

[jedisearcher]

I think xmas post might be delaying things here. I had stuff posted to me on the 4th December from America and it arrived on the 28th or 29th. 25 days for yours would be the end of this week so it's still possible that its in customs or a van somewhere.

Hope it turns up.

 

[Grant]

Oli if its any consolation this has happened to me several times where parcels have taken weeks to finally reach their destination. 99.9999% of the time its always worked out and the parcel gets delivered. Only 1 time has anything gone (missing) and low and behold that was an Ebay transaction where I didnt send the item tracked...

All the best

Grant.

 

[olisuds]

Thanks for the encouragement. To be honest I wouldn't normally have given much though at 3 weeks but the buyer got me panicking and when I checked the tracking it totally confused me. I guess it's good to at least know what I would do in the worst case scenario.

 

[Joe]

As for refunding, that is your own personal choice IMO and something you would need to discuss with the buyer, I don't think a full refund is fair (although I understand the buyers pain if nothing turns up) considering you made sure the items were sent out and tracked till his country - it's totally out of your hands after that point and any refund you make is a goodwill gesture and not something you are expected to do.

I have had 3 items lost in all the years I have been buying and selling, they were all sent out on the same day without tracking (buyers request/risk) to various countries in the world but none ever turned up - as these were all low value items (I think the most was $50) it was a little easier to work on refunds: I refunded one person in full, refunded another one partially (as AJ sent him some replacement coins that he didn't tell me about till I refunded him grr *but thanks AJ!*) and the other guy who was a friend refused the refund offer till he was blue in the face as he knew it wasn't my fault.

Everyone deals with lost parcels differently, in my case the guy who spent the least amount with me hassled me for the refund and the other two who spent more were quite relaxed.

One thing that incident taught me is always send recorded/tracked regardless of cost or if someone desperately wants an item but won't pay for that shipping service then it is agreed to be at buyers risk.

If I had sent those parcels tracked I don't think I would have felt quite so happy about refunding the buyers especially if my tracking number showed it reached its destination country - just my opinion but I feel that if it gets there and all it needs is someone to drop it off then either they didn't yet (not your fault) they lost it (not your fault) they stole it (not your fault) it went to the wrong place (not your fault) etc etc - Might sound harsh but the sellers responsibility has to end somewhere or they are out the money and the item in the event of a refund.

 

[edd_jedi]

By the way, for future reference when using Royal Mail International Signed for 'Your item has reached destination country' is the last detail you ever get before it is signed for. There is no actual tracking. For proper tracking, you need Airsure which is slightly more expensive.

 

[Joe]

By the way, for future reference when using Royal Mail International Signed for 'Your item has reached destination country' is the last detail you ever get before it is signed for. There is no actual tracking. For proper tracking, you need Airsure which is slightly more expensive.

Yep very true, I suppose you may be able to get some information if you chase up an international signed for parcel (as theoretically someone has to sign something for it no?) but as far as online tracking Airsure is the only option that will give you that extra bit of essential information!

 

[plantman]

By the way, for future reference when using Royal Mail International Signed for 'Your item has reached destination country' is the last detail you ever get before it is signed for. There is no actual tracking. For proper tracking, you need Airsure which is slightly more expensive.

You can view the signed for part on USPS website, once it leave the UK you have to track it via USPS website to view delivery confirmation, so provide that information to ebay if they ask, not royal mail tracking.

 

[edd_jedi]

Yes you still get a signature/delivery confirmation, just no tracking. So if you want to be able to see where it is and when, use Airsure.

Better still, don't use Royal Mail at all. I use UPS and FedEx for most things, far quicker and the tracking is top notch, they can even tell you what day and what time it is expected to be delivered.

 

[plantman]

yeah thats all i use, unless its around £50 i use fedex, its not that much more expensive and you get email updates every other day until its delivered

 

[lee gray]

I sent something around november to new jersey and after 5 days it said reached destination country so went to EMS site and it showed it was at some depot ready for delivery but no more updates for two weeks, the guy was getting impatient and wanted his money back thinking its been lost.
Then it got delivered and I was very happy.
It noted that because of the hurricane there was a massive time delay.
It is worrying times when the items expensive because even if insured, you still worry the postal service might find a way to get out of paying.