Upcoming Vectis auction/toy shop find

Will try and find out from Kathy about the exact origins of the mystery box when the time comes.

Latest guess based on what's been said is that it's all 30 backs.

I stand by the packaging being done in Palitoy Far East. All the evidence we see on the early Palitoy and Kenner cards points to that.

:)

Jason
 
jedisearcher said:
It would be crazy from a business sense to send millions of the things fully assembled half way round the world, when they could be sent unassembled at a fraction of the size.

Not sure how it was then but I can tell you that these days it's a damn sight cheaper to fully package retail products in the Far East and send them by boat to Europe than it is to pack them here. They definitely take up more space and are therefore more expensive to ship, but you're talking about a few extra cents per piece. Compare that to the cost of printing and producing the packaging here and then paying the labour for people to package them and it definitely saves money to send from the Far East fully packaged.

(I'm a Product Manager for products that are sold at retail - remote controls not toys admittedly, but I'm sure the same applies as a lot of our factories make toys too).

[edit for strange typo, sorry]
 
I guess low wage costs out in the Far East probably make it attractive, and even out the shipping costs.

But we do know from the Palitoy factory video that some assembly was done here, we just don't know when it started.
 
We have all seen the footage of Palitoy sealing Star Wars figures against backing cards, so it clearly began at some stage. I'd agree that the assembly was done by Palitoy probably because it saved a few pence per figure compared with the shipping charge for them supplied in one piece.

I compared my childhood Kenner 48 Back (Ackbar offer) Imperial Commander MOC to the Palitoy one that I auctioned and the bubble, its waffle glue pattern and its placing are identical. When I bought it in 81' it had the Palitoy sticker which I peeled off. It would seem that it had gone through the production line at Palitoy. I don't have a USA sold Kenner version to compare it with though. There is the possibility of yet another variation; Kenner backing card but Palitoy production line.

Many of the MOCs I collected in the 90's were supposedly Palitoy unsold stock, including a Kenner Yoda complete with orange snake. It could be possible that Palitoy not only ran the Kenner Yoda backing card through its production line but the figure as well. The dark orange Kenner Twin Pod Cloud Car action figure vehicle was sold in Britain and it would seem that Palitoy was sent the unassembled pieces and packaging of this too.
 
David Tree said:
Palitoy78 said:
mr_palitoy said:
The evidence suggests that they were assembled in the Far East factories.

The 12 back Palitoy and Kenner cards use the same figures, footers and bubble progression. Take the Jawa 12 back for example:-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/sw12bcardback.htm

http://www.12back.com/features/vcjawa/vcjawa.php3

Also, the factory codes used on the 41 backs and types of bubbles used match.

We wouldn't see this similarity if the figures/bubbles/cards were being assembled in Coalville and Cincinnati.

cheers Jason

Ill have to respectfully disagree with you here Jason. Im of the opinion that the figures were packaged at Palitoy using bulk figures imported from HK. I beleive the 'made in HK' card markings refer to the figure itself, not the whole package. The evidence you suggest is worthy in some ways, but in the same way any item can be packaged here it can be packaged exactly the same elsewhere. Bubbles/footers cannot fully determine a country of assembly as machinery to seal bubbles to cards would have been used over the world.

Will we ever get a definative answer, probably not but thats what makes this hobby great.

I would question this too, I don't have definitive figures or dates to say otherwise, but card back printing was done by a third party print agency in the UK for all Palitoy products, I have spoken to the former agency owner, but again, specifics are hazy when you are printing a wide range of products 30 years ago.

There were two main compagnies that supplied Palitoy with printed cardboards and packaging stuff; James Baldwin Cartons Ltd from Warley and Corrugated Products Ltd from Belper(Derby), but it was the last one that supplied for the Star Wars line (Destroy the Death Star game box, dispenser for Star Wars Play Masks and maybe cardboard dispenser for caded figures. I said "Maybe" because i remember a picture from them with a Kenner like 12back header and tray with Palitoy carded figures displayed inside...).

Now, respect the packaging of carded figures in Coalville, it was not the case till 82, when the factory begun carding figures for Clipper and Parker with the well know generic ESB offerless 45back.... Before that, all carded figures were printed and blistered in the Far-East. Some of the cards were marked in the back with the manufacturer code; "K" for Kader, "U" for Unitoy, etc... It was the case for the Palitoy ESB 41 back and ESB 45 back "A". What is confirmed is Kader packaging the first 12 and 21 back for Kenner and Palitoy, and also the first 12 back for Meccano.
What we can see in the video footage of the UK factory of Coalville are "Zuckuss" being blistered on JEDI 45 back card (ROJ1).
M2c...
 
panastur said:
David Tree said:
Palitoy78 said:
I would question this too, I don't have definitive figures or dates to say otherwise, but card back printing was done by a third party print agency in the UK for all Palitoy products, I have spoken to the former agency owner, but again, specifics are hazy when you are printing a wide range of products 30 years ago.

There were two main compagnies that supplied Palitoy with printed cardboards and packaging stuff; James Baldwin Cartons Ltd from Warley and Corrugated Products Ltd from Belper(Derby), but it was the last one that supplied for the Star Wars line (Destroy the Death Star game box, dispenser for Star Wars Play Masks and maybe cardboard dispenser for caded figures. I said "Maybe" because i remember a picture from them with a Kenner like 12back header and tray with Palitoy carded figures displayed inside...).

Now, respect the packaging of carded figures in Coalville, it was not the case till 82, when the factory begun carding figures for Clipper and Parker with the well know generic ESB offerless 45back.... Before that, all carded figures were printed and blistered in the Far-East. Some of the cards were marked in the back with the manufacturer code; "K" for Kader, "U" for Unitoy, etc... It was the case for the Palitoy ESB 41 back and ESB 45 back "A". What is confirmed is Kader packaging the first 12 and 21 back for Kenner and Palitoy, and also the first 12 back for Meccano.
What we can see in the video footage of the UK factory of Coalville are "Zuckuss" being blistered on JEDI 45 back card (ROJ1).
M2c...

Interesting, although its down to conjecture as there is no real proof. I think this will be another mystery unless we track down a Palitoy employee to confirm.

Great read though :)
 
Another thought :) I would ask why Palitoy started carding them in house so late in the line??? Surely they shouldnt really have bothered if the HK theory is correct???
 
Last question Panastur, if your theory is correct why weren,t the Palitoy cases stamped with Palitoy etc like the Kenner versions?? That raises a flag to me.
 
Palitoy figures being packaged in the Far East up until 1982 makes a lot of sense. It torpedoes my theory that the Kenner Yoda I own was assembled by Palitoy but I'm more than content that we are getting nearer to the facts. Kenner and Palitoy figures on the British market that feature identical bubbles may be down to the fact that they were both packaged overseas. Palitoy could have simply received fully assembled Kenner figures alongside stock designed for the British market.
 
Palitoy78 said:
Interesting, although its down to conjecture as there is no real proof. I think this will be another mystery unless we track down a Palitoy employee to confirm.

Great read though :)
Hi Lee,

I really do appreciate your interest and it is with pleasure that I will answer your questions. But first, I want to emphasize that I have no interest in convincing anybody overhere. In my 47 years, I have little left to prove to myself, much less to justify to others. For me, the history of European toy companies is a passion and a hobby as is collecting toys. I really enjoy it, and people who use to know me and with whom I use to share this kind of information know very well my passion for the toy industry. When it happens that in my research appear connections with Star Wars toys, I have no problem to share and post the info on the forums. After that, it's up to each other to make their own conclusion.

As you can see, I do not use the conditional data in my proposals. I do not have the habit of throwing unfounded theories... Respect the "Real proof" term as you mentioned, it's always subject to endless discussions. Even memories from a former employee can be discussed and questioned. You have to take them as they come and contrast them with other data on the company and tie everything together into a coherent context.

Here, my "real proof" has a name; V. J. Tam, Director of Quality in Hon-Kong from 82 to 87 for Palitoy Far-East ltd.(General Mills HK). Mr. Tam is now Director of Systems and Compliance for the Jetta Company Ltd. Another HK company that manufactured SW toys for theGM group...

"Palitoy78": Another thought :) I would ask why Palitoy started carding them in house so late in the line??? Surely they shouldnt really have bothered if the HK theory is correct???

Well, i wouldn't considere 1982 as very late. But honestly, I don't have a concrete answer on this decision. But one can easily imagine that this is linked to a card format change and its standardization. What is certain is that just before the release of "Jedi" in theathers, Palitoy had accumulated a large stock of loose figures. Stocks that had brought Palitoy from the Far-East to provide its sister companies that were Meccano, Clipper and Parker. It was certainly an opportunity to move their old references stock with a new logo-ed card. But there are surely many other factors that led Palitoy to produce its own blisters as the acquisition of Airfix Industry in 81 and the transfer of a large part of its production to the French plant in Calais . This could have lighten his workload and focus on the production of blisters... But again, nothing really concrete here, sorry.

"Palitoy78": Last question Panastur, if your theory is correct why weren,t the Palitoy cases stamped with Palitoy etc like the Kenner versions?? That raises a flag to me.

Personally, I haven't had the opportunity to see a shipping box of Palitoy "Empire" or "SW" carded figures which came from the Far-East. Boxes presented on Vectis are boxes of "restocking" or "assortement" made in the factory in Coalville. Production that came from the Far-Eeast was packed in boxes of 200 pieces of the same carded character. We have the proof here with the box of the six "Death Star" that were manufactured, printed and packaged in England. Again, these stickerd boxes were "assortment" made and composed by Palitoy in England and they do not came from the Far-East.
Now, regarding the Assortment nº.33330: if the box wasn't manipulated and contains its original assortment, maybe we will get the chance to see carded versions that had not seen before. So wait and see...

JC :wink:
 
You've gotta love this hobby, when new information comes to light all the time.

Great discussions guys, awesome reading 8)
 
I concur with Lee in that why would Palitoy invest time and money in getting plant to create carded figures when they'd been getting it done overseas for so long? It doesn't make good business sense (although perhaps that's why they went out of business!)

I've come across loads of Kenner cards in my time with UK price stickers on them which backs up the theory that the cards were assembled in the far east then shipped overseas; some Kenner branded stock was probably sent to the UK when demand dictated this (Yoda is a common one for this).
 
panastur said:
Palitoy78 said:
Interesting, although its down to conjecture as there is no real proof. I think this will be another mystery unless we track down a Palitoy employee to confirm.

Great read though :)
Hi Lee,

I really do appreciate your interest and it is with pleasure that I will answer your questions. But first, I want to emphasize that I have no interest in convincing anybody overhere. In my 47 years, I have little left to prove to myself, much less to justify to others. For me, the history of European toy companies is a passion and a hobby as is collecting toys. I really enjoy it, and people who use to know me and with whom I use to share this kind of information know very well my passion for the toy industry. When it happens that in my research appear connections with Star Wars toys, I have no problem to share and post the info on the forums. After that, it's up to each other to make their own conclusion.

As you can see, I do not use the conditional data in my proposals. I do not have the habit of throwing unfounded theories... Respect the "Real proof" term as you mentioned, it's always subject to endless discussions. Even memories from a former employee can be discussed and questioned. You have to take them as they come and contrast them with other data on the company and tie everything together into a coherent context.

Here, my "real proof" has a name; V. J. Tam, Director of Quality in Hon-Kong from 82 to 87 for Palitoy Far-East ltd.(General Mills HK). Mr. Tam is now Director of Systems and Compliance for the Jetta Company Ltd. Another HK company that manufactured SW toys for theGM group...

"Palitoy78": Another thought :) I would ask why Palitoy started carding them in house so late in the line??? Surely they shouldnt really have bothered if the HK theory is correct???

Well, i wouldn't considere 1982 as very late. But honestly, I don't have a concrete answer on this decision. But one can easily imagine that this is linked to a card format change and its standardization. What is certain is that just before the release of "Jedi" in theathers, Palitoy had accumulated a large stock of loose figures. Stocks that had brought Palitoy from the Far-East to provide its sister companies that were Meccano, Clipper and Parker. It was certainly an opportunity to move their old references stock with a new logo-ed card. But there are surely many other factors that led Palitoy to produce its own blisters as the acquisition of Airfix Industry in 81 and the transfer of a large part of its production to the French plant in Calais . This could have lighten his workload and focus on the production of blisters... But again, nothing really concrete here, sorry.

"Palitoy78": Last question Panastur, if your theory is correct why weren,t the Palitoy cases stamped with Palitoy etc like the Kenner versions?? That raises a flag to me.

Personally, I haven't had the opportunity to see a shipping box of Palitoy "Empire" or "SW" carded figures which came from the Far-East. Boxes presented on Vectis are boxes of "restocking" or "assortement" made in the factory in Coalville. Production that came from the Far-Eeast was packed in boxes of 200 pieces of the same carded character. We have the proof here with the box of the six "Death Star" that were manufactured, printed and packaged in England. Again, these stickerd boxes were "assortment" made and composed by Palitoy in England and they do not came from the Far-East.
Now, regarding the Assortment nº.33330: if the box wasn't manipulated and contains its original assortment, maybe we will get the chance to see carded versions that had not seen before. So wait and see...

JC :wink:

JC,great read. Thanks :)
 
Isn't it possible that they were packaged in the UK from 82 onwards because the company was booming and they realised that packaging themselves might work out cheaper in the log run. More control over production and distribution. Technology may have become cheaper etc. ?

Just a thought.
 
Great thread!

Very exciting news about the auctions to...my girlfriend is hoping there will be Pippa stuff!
 
Just checked the Vectis Website and I guess we now know what was in the sealed box assuming Vectis haven't held anything different back. A mixture of 12b's, a 20back and 30a's. Not sure anyone called that combination. Which certainly fits with the number on the box. All look in incredible case fresh condition as you would expect.

Star Wars: Vader, Stormtrooper, Jawa, C-3PO, Death Squad Commander, Sand People and Luke X-Wing.

ESB: Lando, Han Hoth, HST, Luke Bespin, Leia Bespin, Rebel Soldier.

I guess the first ones will do well and then the law of diminishing returns.
 
What date are these on Andy? They haven't a clue. They have a yps stormtrooper sealed on the magazine listed as a rare German bootleg.

I love to see the stuff they are selling, but I despair as I'm not willing to break the bank and pay their over the top prices on any of it.
 
Well there's a couple of 30 backs that don't come up that often but it's not quite the rare 12 back find everyone was hoping for ( as the most of the main characters aren't in the lot listed).

Great condition though on all of them though and I wonder if this was how this shipping box came or if these figures were put in here by the seller of them?

Ian
 
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