Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

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ah go on then :roll: al have a shot :lol:
toni on one of his fishing trips
 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221370983149

Hoth trooper & threepio both def tonis coming from hove actually
 
1305015_Main_LP_eBP_UK_banner_1_v2_zps5d264985.jpg
 
damn! i give up :cry: my heads pickled :shock: im going round in circles this morning trying to find a bit of info :? . am i right in saying that little or no palitoy / german gm esb 45backs used or shop sold or loose cards had be found yet with the german writing at the bottom of rear with the english collect all 45 at the top pointing to these have never been sold in any shop due to the conflicting / confusing text in either country ? inturn pointing to them being TT ,is that right?
its just ive seen what to me is a deffo shop sold gm 45bk with english txt at top which has an o3 bubble
 
jay4 said:
damn! i give up :cry: my heads pickled :shock: im going round in circles this morning trying to find a bit of info :? . am i right in saying that little or no palitoy / german gm esb 45backs used or shop sold or loose cards had be found yet with the german writing at the bottom of rear with the english collect all 45 at the top pointing to these have never been sold in any shop due to the conflicting / confusing text in either country ? inturn pointing to them being TT ,is that right?
its just ive seen what to me is a deffo shop sold gm 45bk with english txt at top which has an o3 bubble
Click to expand...

Most of tonis german cards have the english text on the back, though a few annoyingly do not. There is also evidence of the ones with english text
on the back being shop sold at least in the uk. So some cards with english text were left in the factory after they switched to the card with the text removed.

cheers Jason
 
ah right cheers jason, that would certainly explain it then :P
heres a few pics i took of it for reference . tbh it was more the bubble that confused me, as i think TT everytime i see a single stem o3 bubble now, (the bastard :x ). it has the waffled but more like lined seal look , the original owner bought this at glasgow secc in 2007,
ive gave him £35.00 quid for it friday evening ,


 
The palitoy 45bs and german cards both used number bubbles, ccp used 02 and 03.

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45bcardback.htm

"The single stem bubbles have a number embossed on the bubble in the bottom right hand corner. Certain figures only used certain bubble numbers. Han Solo used 04, Death Star Droid used 02, C-3PO (Removable Limbs) used 015, AT-AT Commander used 01 & 03, Artoo Detoo (R2-D2) (With Sensorscope) used 12, Bespin Security Guard (Black) used 01, TIE Fighter Pilot used 13, Cloud Car Pilot used 02 & 03, Luke Skywalker (Hoth Battle Gear) used 03, 4-LOM used 13, FX-7 (Medical Droid) used 08, Imperial Commander used 01, Bossk (Bounty Hunter) used 03, Chewbacca used 02, Darth Vader used 08, Luke Skywalker used 04, Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi used 04 and Stormtrooper used 03."

cheers Jason
 
Been doing a lot with factory codes from Asia, and the upshot is that all early palitoy cards up to 45A were made in the Kader Industries factory in Hong Kong,
also where Kenner cards were manufactured.

Panastur said this back in October just before Tonigate broke:-

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t6311p45-card-back-collectors-thread

This post lists all the important factory codes:-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1096363-2/

All of the palitoy 41 backs have the same kenner design and the K factory code on them for Kader industries.

And the earlier cards all say made in hong kong and use the same bubble/figures as Kenner cards did. The 12B jawa run for example.

I have updated the guide to reflect this.

Coalville started manufacturing cards with 45B, and continued with 45C, 65B, 65C and 65D, and then TriLogo afterwards.

Tonis stock of unused cards matches this with the exception of 65B. Maybe they used all the Nien Nunb offer cards up before moving to Chewbacca Bandolier strap?

If Toni had any MOCs these are likely to have been assembled Tri-Logo, with unassembled Tr-Logo cards and fragile Tri-Logo bubbles not surviving the iron on
sealing technique, if there were any. (we havent seen an unused tri logo cardback or tri logo cardback with iron marks, so the evidence says no).

All in, this should restore further confidence in the Palitoy collecting community.

:)

cheers Jason
 
Quite amazing how much information is still missing from the communities knowledge of the production era. I'm sure there are brains to be tapped into, but how to find them?
 
I have better categorised the palitoy list and have also figured out which of the two card types the german cards were by looking on toytoni.com on the wayback archive
and using the v punch (with english text) or rounded punch (without text) tell with front only pictures of the cards.

Of the 24 affected ESB German cards, 12 are with english text, and 12 are without english text, so a 50/50 split. So there is no correspondence with Tonis cards
being all with english text as I first thought.

Clipper ESB

72* Rebel Commander
69* Bespin Security Guard White
69+ Hammerhead
56+ Walrusman
11+ Dengar

General Mills ESB

563 Han Hoth (without english text)
526 Stormtrooper (without english text)
500* Bossk (without english text)
357 C3PO Removable Limbs (without english text)
320 AT-AT Driver (with english text)
318 Bespin Security Guard Black (with english text)
276 IG88 (without english text)
268 21B (with english text)
194 Han Solo (without english text)
171 R2D2 Sensorscope (without english text)
166 Leia Bespin (with english text)
162 Han Bespin (without english text)
138 Ben Kenobi (without english text)
118 Power Droid (with english text)
90 Cloud Car Pilot (with english text)
85 Yoda (without english text)
73* Rebel Commander (with english text)
70 AT-AT Commander (with english text)
69* Bespin Security Guard White (without english text)
66* Chewbacca (with english text)
50 Leia Hoth (with english text)
36 Rebel Soldier (with english text)
26 FX-7 (with english text)
25 Princess Leia (without english text)
11 R5D4 (with english text)

General Mills ROTJ

30 Cloud Car Pilot
6^ Imperial Tie Fighter Pilot

Palitoy ESB

500* Bossk (45b back)
264 Imperial Tie Fighter Pilot (45b back)
66* Chewbacca (45b back)

Palitoy ROTJ

1234 C3PO Removable Limbs (65d back)
1126 Imperial Hoth Trooper (65d back)
885 Luke Skywalker (45c back)
482 Boba Fett (45c back)
467 Lobot (45c back)
417 Death Star Droid (45c back)
301 21B (45c back)
143 Chewbacca (65d back)
132 Luke Bespin (45c back)
105 Luke Hoth (65d back)
86 Lando Skiff Guard (65c back)
81 Logray 65c back)
60 Squid Head (65c back)
47 Han Solo (45c back)
39 AT-AT Driver (65d back)
31 Gamorrean Guard (65c back)
30 Leia Boussh (65c back)
27 AT-AT Commander (45c back)
12 Yoda (45c back)
8 Cloud Car Pilot (45c back)

*Both palitoy & clipper or german & clipper offered on toytoni.com, so a 50/50 split assumed rather than assuming all are german
+Clipper not listed, but offered on toytoni.com, no german figure offered
^Palitoy variation not known to exist, assumed to be german which does exist

cheers Jason
 
so did anyone talk to Toni direct in the end ?

or has he disappeared ?

i started to see some of his figures sell on ebay and was listed for the first time as what they really are , well done who ever that was that was honest as said there was doubt with the figures , it was refreshing to see them clearly being listed, they did not go for high numbers so at least the word is getting out there and now people can choose when buying and pay what they feel is fare for this figures.

one amazing thing Toni seems to have gotten away with 100s of 1000s of ponds over the years this was happening yet no one took it further ? that is amazing so its a perfect crime ?

Whats also amazing is that if you find out something like this is happening everyone that has a vested interest in this not being true IE they own some of these figures and have a lot tied up in them, they do not want to here the truth and that is a massive brick wall to breakthrough .

This happened to a fellow collector friend of mine Graham , he was the whistle blower on the fake Harrison Ford autographs a year or so ago , everyone that had bought these turned on him and said he was lying and did not know his stuff, in the end it turned out to be 100% true and it all came out .

so i think to help all collectors out there and to make the hobble safer maybe when someone comes to any forum under there own name and call something out then maybe people should just hold fire till things become more clear that way people will feel more confident to come forward and say some of the things publicly that they may know.

we are all collectors and we are all keep to get things and compete with each other to improve our collections and things can get heated but when it comes to con men and people getting ripped off we should all be on the same side us the collectors against them the crocks.

i am a strong person and i do not leave a batter when it gets hard and i believed in what i was doing and felt it was important to fight for the truth months ago when this started up , but even for me it was a very tuff place to be fighting from a conner when 10s of people calling me out when all i did was say what i knew , that is past now and its out but i would like us all to at least see what happened here and maybe the next person to be a whistle blower might get a better platform to air there worries or fears ? , it can only help the hobby and us all .

i hope you can see the logic in what i am trying to say here and also see its not about me more the next person that feels that they know something that should be in the public domain.

one last thing collection should be fun this was not much fun , i now just plan to going back popping on here from time to time and shearing collecting star wars with fellow collectors

beek luck and keep on finding cool stuff from your child hood

yours

jason
 
ace said:
he was the whistle blower on the fake Harrison Ford autographs a year or so ago , everyone that had bought these turned on him and said he was lying and did not know his stuff, in the end it turned out to be 100% true and it all came out
Click to expand...

Get your popcorn ready! :lol:
 
that story is well known and out there in the autograph community so no revaluations there i am afraid :-)

j
 
ace said:
so did anyone talk to Toni direct in the end ?

or has he disappeared ?

i started to see some of his figures sell on ebay and was listed for the first time as what they really are , well done who ever that was that was honest as said there was doubt with the figures , it was refreshing to see them clearly being listed, they did not go for high numbers so at least the word is getting out there and now people can choose when buying and pay what they feel is fare for this figures.

one amazing thing Toni seems to have gotten away with 100s of 1000s of ponds over the years this was happening yet no one took it further ? that is amazing so its a perfect crime ?

Whats also amazing is that if you find out something like this is happening everyone that has a vested interest in this not being true IE they own some of these figures and have a lot tied up in them, they do not want to here the truth and that is a massive brick wall to breakthrough .

This happened to a fellow collector friend of mine Graham , he was the whistle blower on the fake Harrison Ford autographs a year or so ago , everyone that had bought these turned on him and said he was lying and did not know his stuff, in the end it turned out to be 100% true and it all came out .

so i think to help all collectors out there and to make the hobble safer maybe when someone comes to any forum under there own name and call something out then maybe people should just hold fire till things become more clear that way people will feel more confident to come forward and say some of the things publicly that they may know.

we are all collectors and we are all keep to get things and compete with each other to improve our collections and things can get heated but when it comes to con men and people getting ripped off we should all be on the same side us the collectors against them the crocks.

i am a strong person and i do not leave a batter when it gets hard and i believed in what i was doing and felt it was important to fight for the truth months ago when this started up , but even for me it was a very tuff place to be fighting from a conner when 10s of people calling me out when all i did was say what i knew , that is past now and its out but i would like us all to at least see what happened here and maybe the next person to be a whistle blower might get a better platform to air there worries or fears ? , it can only help the hobby and us all .

i hope you can see the logic in what i am trying to say here and also see its not about me more the next person that feels that they know something that should be in the public domain.

one last thing collection should be fun this was not much fun , i now just plan to going back popping on here from time to time and shearing collecting star wars with fellow collectors

beek luck and keep on finding cool stuff from your child hood

yours

jason
Click to expand...


Jason, you have done the collecting community a great service by bringing Tonis actions to light. Having the strength of character
to stay on here when the storm raged in your direction is commendable, and many appreciate you for that.

Personally, I have learnt a great deal about Palitoy and what was made where/when in Coalville and Asia as a result of having
to analyse all of the affected cards. The palitoy guide I have is much larger and broader and a better reflection of what happened
as a result. So good things came out of this for me.

On the down side, I still have a bunch of AFA 90 Tonis that are devalued because of this, but I put this down to my progression
from being a new collector (when I bought these) to where I am now, and it has changed my view on AFA for the better I would say.

So all ine, I prefer where we are in the collecting community now, as to where we were end of November.

All the best

Jason
 
Hey guys, while doing some work for a client today, I stumbled on something interesting.

Action Fraud is the UK-based government organization who a member here (Chris - I believe he's jedisearcher on RS and possibly here as well) recommended we contact about the Toy Toni situation.

It appears Action Fraud is investigating a "boiler room" scheme, where they must have received complaints from the public about fraudsters posing as brokers cold-calling people, trying to sell them bogus shares.

It's surprising to me that they would have acted on something like this, but not on Toni's defrauding of so many people - worse of which, is that he carried out his scamming and has victims around the world and not only in the UK.

I posted on their Facebook page, reminding them of the complaint I filed with them and suggest if you have filed a report with them, or simply want to see justice served in this situation, to visit the Facebook link below and make your voice heard. It's shocking they have not moved a muscle to even investigate the matter, much less seek a charge or prosecution against Toni. The last I heard from them, they basically told me they have to see a number of complaints before they can investigate, so your posts/comments on their Facebook page might make a difference.

Here's the link, and if you know anyone who was taken by Toni, let them know about this as well. We need to pressure Action Fraud to get off their seats and do something:

https://www.facebook.com/actionfraud/posts/668721369862814
 
finestcomics said:
Hey guys, while doing some work for a client today, I stumbled on something interesting.

Action Fraud is the UK-based government organization who a member here (Chris - I believe he's jedisearcher on RS and possibly here as well) recommended we contact about the Toy Toni situation.

It appears Action Fraud is investigating a "boiler room" scheme, where they must have received complaints from the public about fraudsters posing as brokers cold-calling people, trying to sell them bogus shares.

It's surprising to me that they would have acted on something like this, but not on Toni's defrauding of so many people - worse of which, is that he carried out his scamming and has victims around the world and not only in the UK.

I posted on their Facebook page, reminding them of the complaint I filed with them and suggest if you have filed a report with them, or simply want to see justice served in this situation, to visit the Facebook link below and make your voice heard. It's shocking they have not moved a muscle to even investigate the matter, much less seek a charge or prosecution against Toni. The last I heard from them, they basically told me they have to see a number of complaints before they can investigate, so your posts/comments on their Facebook page might make a difference.

Here's the link, and if you know anyone who was taken by Toni, let them know about this as well. We need to pressure Action Fraud to get off their seats and do something:

https://www.facebook.com/actionfraud/posts/668721369862814
Click to expand...

Nice find. Will be sending them the details later.
 
jedisearcher said:
finestcomics said:
Hey guys, while doing some work for a client today, I stumbled on something interesting.

Action Fraud is the UK-based government organization who a member here (Chris - I believe he's jedisearcher on RS and possibly here as well) recommended we contact about the Toy Toni situation.

It appears Action Fraud is investigating a "boiler room" scheme, where they must have received complaints from the public about fraudsters posing as brokers cold-calling people, trying to sell them bogus shares.

It's surprising to me that they would have acted on something like this, but not on Toni's defrauding of so many people - worse of which, is that he carried out his scamming and has victims around the world and not only in the UK.

I posted on their Facebook page, reminding them of the complaint I filed with them and suggest if you have filed a report with them, or simply want to see justice served in this situation, to visit the Facebook link below and make your voice heard. It's shocking they have not moved a muscle to even investigate the matter, much less seek a charge or prosecution against Toni. The last I heard from them, they basically told me they have to see a number of complaints before they can investigate, so your posts/comments on their Facebook page might make a difference.

Here's the link, and if you know anyone who was taken by Toni, let them know about this as well. We need to pressure Action Fraud to get off their seats and do something:

https://www.facebook.com/actionfraud/posts/668721369862814
Click to expand...

Nice find. Will be sending them the details later.
Click to expand...

Great - thanks Crhis! You probably have a list of people who sent in a report so if you could perhaps point them to the page and ask them to post a comment, that would be great. I sent a message out to friends on Facebook as well hoping if we could crowd their Facebook page with messages stating the collecting community at large want to see them investigate Toni, we might get them to do more than they've done so far. Here's the message I posted on Facebook:

Guys, I know the situation is out of sight, out of mind. But I really could use your help in getting the word out, hoping that if enough people post on the Action Fraud Facebook page, they might consider getting off their hands and doing what they're supposed to be doing. I've tried posting on RS/TIG/SWFUK hoping that members from those communities could take a moment to let Action Fraud know their inaction on this matter isn't going unnoticed. For those who might not know, Action Fraud is roughly the equivalent of the FTC in the US, and if enough people complain to them about being defrauded, or if they can see a fact pattern around an individuals criminal activities, they will investigate and possibly prosecute without requiring any costly legal action. Given Toni was based out of Brighton when he scammed everyone, this is the government organization who can make a difference. I don't want to spam all the groups, but being that a lot of you guys are already on Facebook, and we all would love to see this guy behind bars, see if you can take a minute to share this, and let as many people know to do the same. Thanks! https://www.facebook.com/actionfraud/posts/668721369862814
Click to expand...
 
Guys, Action Fraud responded to the Facebook post - I strongly urge people to use this as a course of action if they've been taken by Toni:

Action Fraud:
Thanks for sharing this - please encourage further victims to report to us so it can be passed onto the police
Report Here

How to report a fraud | Action Fraud
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk
You can report a fraud to Action Fraud by using our online fraud reporting tool, or by calling us on 0300 123 2040.
Posted 10 hrs ago
Click to expand...
 
finestcomics said:
Guys, Action Fraud responded to the Facebook post - I strongly urge people to use this as a course of action if they've been taken by Toni:

Action Fraud:
Thanks for sharing this - please encourage further victims to report to us so it can be passed onto the police
Report Here

How to report a fraud | Action Fraud
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk
You can report a fraud to Action Fraud by using our online fraud reporting tool, or by calling us on 0300 123 2040.
Posted 10 hrs ago
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I used this and Sussex police are now taking things seriously.

Grant - has something happened?
 
Yeh, too many slaaaags on their manor to deal with a 'erbert like this geeza ...in't that roight guvna! :)
 

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