Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[mr_palitoy]

Well said Jay4.

One of the really positive things to come out of this debacle is a new found love of creases, dents, price stickers, lovely bubble yellowing, just beautiful signs of age. Wonder why SW collectors pay a premium for a mint! The whole Toni scam is based on MINT. Collectors want to believe and so do the graders that the figure can be this factor fresh.

I buy old guitars and amps and would stay away if offered factory fresh! In fact people pay premium for Les Paul's/Fender amps with those lovely signs of age.

Excellent post.I myself prefer stuff that is aged,and tells a story.Price tags are something i love.

Also,dont tell me you would turn down a brand new PRS Dragon

No i really do not go for mint guitars (even a PRS Dragon!!...but I do take care of my mint guitars)...this is my favorite guitar of all time as it has its story written all over it. It belonged to Rory Gallagher (one of the most hardworking guitarists ever).
http://www.fender.com/news/guitar-world-features-rory-gallagher/
In fact there is a whole industry now where mint guitars are taken and banged around by guitar techs to make them look "roadworn"

Coming back to MOCs... is whitegloves2 another ebay account for Toni? It is full of Trilogo goodies but a lot of suspect palitoys.

Price stickers also age in a nice way ...don't they? I am sure it would be difficult to age the sticker, the card, the bubble at the same time and have them in some sort of a sync...but I guess if someone is making that much of an effort....what do you say...

Really amazed at Lee cutting out the edge of the creased card to have a nice rounded edge.

whitegloves22 is SWESB on rebelscum and my guide. I had words with him a week or two back about Tonis and he removed his suspected pieces from
ebay and informed sellers on a couple that had just sold. What suspect pieces does he have for sale, I can't see any.

cheers Jason

 

[jasdev999]

"Suspect pieces".

I appreciate that but you are the expert and I can say authority right now with the amount of research you have done on Palitoys (and a great free guide) , and you can spot Toni's from a mile....but for an ordinary collector like me any minty/near mint ROTJ Palitoy in that group (german general mills etc) is a suspect. The only way to resolve this issue is if Toni comes out and gives an answer!!

I am finding it easier to enjoy the hobby if I stick to Kenner, Trilogos etc.....

 

[mr_palitoy]

"Suspect pieces".

I appreciate that but you are the expert and I can say authority right now with the amount of research you have done on Palitoys (and a great free guide) , and you can spot Toni's from a mile....but for an ordinary collector like me any minty/near mint ROTJ Palitoy in that group (german general mills etc) is a suspect. The only way to resolve this issue is if Toni comes out and gives an answer!!

I am finding it easier to enjoy the hobby if I stick to Kenner, Trilogos etc.....

Toni is never going to do that, it would be an admission of guilt which would do himself no favours.

Can understand not wanting to buy palitoys yourself, that's fine.

But you're saying that anyone who sells palitoy cards is selling suspect cards is looking to rip people off?

That is unfair. There are 22 affected figure/card combos out of 555.

And I've tried my best to categorise those on my guide in a manner which is easy to understand and spot.

cheers Jason

 

[jasdev999]

"Suspect pieces".

I appreciate that but you are the expert and I can say authority right now with the amount of research you have done on Palitoys (and a great free guide) , and you can spot Toni's from a mile....but for an ordinary collector like me any minty/near mint ROTJ Palitoy in that group (german general mills etc) is a suspect. The only way to resolve this issue is if Toni comes out and gives an answer!!

I am finding it easier to enjoy the hobby if I stick to Kenner, Trilogos etc.....

Toni is never going to do that, it would be an admission of guilt which would do himself no favours.

Can understand not wanting to buy palitoys yourself, that's fine.

But you're saying that anyone who sells palitoy cards is selling suspect cards is looking to rip people off?

That is unfair. There are 22 affected figure/card combos out of 555.

And I've tried my best to categorise those on my guide in a manner which is easy to understand and spot.

cheers Jason

Dear Jason...I did not mean anyone who sells Palitoys is trying to rip off people...I did not want to come across like that at all.

Lot of ebay sellers are putting disclaimers and links to your website (which is the only bright spot for these affected cards in this whole mess right now) but some are not. All I am saying is even with all this knowledge (thanks to you all) ordinary collectors like me are finding it hard to make sense of it all (AFA/UKG have also not helped...have they?)...I am just giving you a sense of knee jerk reaction on my part (totally misguided I do appreciate).

 

[Grant_C]

All ESB/ROTJ's after 45b's are suspect.

There's no guarantee that the factories followed bubble to card protocol.

Highly likely maybe, but there are no guarantees.

Prices stickers can be added from card backs.

MOCs can be aged if the were sealed decades ago.

The only way to find out is for TT to let us know the sketch.

He's not going to do that without a legal enquiry.

 

[Simply Sci-fi]

The work that is being put into checking and cataloguing suspect Star Wars figures is extremely commendable. It seems like we're going to get a definite answer to which figures are "Toni's." There will always be people who do not understand, do not have the time or cannot be bothered to check the on-line guides. I can imagine a business man or celebrity with cash to spend on Star Wars falling into this category. Also auction houses and dealers might not have time to go to the trouble to individually check each figure against the listings.

It might not be news to people here but according to Kathy Taylor of Vectis Auctions there is a "waffle" or "cross hatch" pattern in the glue which affixes all Star Wars Palitoy figure bubbles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGahuO9jRiE
I took a close look at my Palitoy SW and ESB MOCs and they all have the pattern. I don't actually own any Palitoy ROTJ carded figures to compare (I put everything into collecting all of the Tri-logos and still came up a few short!).

I believe that carded figures are going to absolute gold in years to come, as people with real money begin to want to spend on their childhood memories, if they can have confidence in the authenticity of the items for sale. Star Wars figures are our generation's version of Dinky – more than Dinky. Near perfect MOC Palitoy Star Wars main cast characters could well go into the stratosphere price wise and I'm not kidding. If the "waffle/cross hatch" pattern is not full-proof perhaps there could be another way to visually check carded figures?

Craig.

 

[Palifan]

I'm not sure that Kathy has quite got all her facts straight on the bubble seal as the waffle pattern does seem to appear on the 12/20 backs and ESB but I don't think it's on all the ESB ones or Jedi.

It's good that she has put some information out there for people who have done very little research on VCJ's but again I thought VCJ's have been found with the more blue blaster (not completely sure about that so let me know if that's incorrect ), and it's a shame she didn't mention that the cross hatch texture on the cape is only on one side.

Jump in anyone if any of this isn't right.

Ian

 

[jedisearcher]

Trust me, Kathy's knowledge of what's fake and what's not in sadly lacking. In fact, that comment is bizarre if she actually said it because the auction in October was riddled with cards without the waffle.

Out of interest, do you have that comment from her in writing? :twisted:

 

[finestcomics]

Looks like one of Toni's cards on the shelf
[youtube]CGahuO9jRiE[/youtube]

 

[Captainsolo1978]

My figures just arrived from the UK to NZ.

Inspected my Toni bought ROTJ Luke Farmboy and German Esb Han Solo .

ROTJ Luke
Ok from what I understand I have a very early 1978 era Luke on a Jedi card.
He has brown eyes and eyebrows. The saber is square where it meets the tip and is a lighter yellow colour. I think ROTJ issue Luke Farmboys had BLACK eyes and eyebrows and the saber was a brighter yellow.

Esb German Han
Ok a bit harder. He has the 03 style bubble single stem. Seal is waffle. No English text on back. My Toni Han Bespin has an identical bubble.

I don't think early Luke s would be on Bandolier offer cards !

 

[mr_palitoy]

All ESB/ROTJ's after 45b's are suspect.

There's no guarantee that the factories followed bubble to card protocol.

Highly likely maybe, but there are no guarantees.

Prices stickers can be added from card backs.

MOCs can be aged if the were sealed decades ago.

The only way to find out is for TT to let us know the sketch.

He's not going to do that without a legal enquiry.

I have to disagree. Entire lines of ROTJ cards are guaranteed Toni free.

65a's were manufactured in the far east so the unused cards were not present in the coalville factory when it shut up shop.

And there's no evidence of Toni having and 65bs either.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Looks like one of Toni's cards on the shelf
[youtube]CGahuO9jRiE[/youtube]

Kathys video was obviously made pre Tonigate.

Her tips for spotting fake vcjs is pretty sound.

cheers Jason

 

[Grant_C]

65a's were manufactured in the far east so the unused cards were not present in the coalville factory when it shut up shop.

cheers Jason

Didn't know that.

Some good news for palitoy collectors. :wink:

 

[finestcomics]

Just wanted to post this as a footnote to all the talking points which seem to have gone in many different directions as this thread and suggested tells began to unfold

Namely, the application of the blister on the card, and the poor, non-uniform and/or unevenly applied appearance on "suspect" ROTJ MOC's from Toni.

A member on RS posted the following images on Friday evening asking for people to confirm the legitimacy of his Made in Mexico cardback. The following MOC is legit.

To repeat, the appearance of the way the blister makes contact to the card just looked so similar to some of the examples posted in this thread that I thought it was a good example of how other factory examples have the appearance of a "suspect" seal:

Made in Mexico MOC:

 

[Palifan]

I'm sure we can make it to 200 pages if we really try! :lol:

Ian

 

[jay4]

I'm sure we can make it to 200 pages if we really try! :lol:

Ian

dont worry im sure something will come to light and it will all kick off again :wink: i predict 250 no less

 

[Grant_C]

Don't expect to get money back- just nail the guy for fraud.

Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society looking the other way.

 

[jay4]

Don't expect to get money back- just nail the guy for fraud.

Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society looking the other way.

out of interest dose anyone have a photo of mr antoni fakechowicz ? i wanna put a face to all this so i know what he looks like. also going by his name can i presume he speaks with an non uk accent ?

 

[Captainsolo1978]

I spoke to him on the telephone when ordering some figures about 9 years ago. He has an English accent.

 

[mr_palitoy]

He's quite photo shy, no photos of his face.

This used to be his cover photo on his facebook account:-

https://www.facebook.com/antoni.emchowicz

Short, bald, old and skinny from what people have said who have seen him in the flesh.

cheers Jason

 

[jay4]

He's quite photo shy, no photos of his face.

This used to be his cover photo on his facebook account:-

https://www.facebook.com/antoni.emchowicz

Short, bald, old and skinny from what people have said who have seen him in the flesh.

cheers Jason

cheers english accent, 50s roughly ,sliky smooth head . noted ,good help that pic

 

[Grant_C]

 

[PIGCITY]

Cue deluge of funny bald men pics taking this thread up to the much hyped 200 pages...

 

[Richard_H]

I think it's appropriate he looks like a cock

 

[jay4]

whos that ? its been annoying me ,hes a chef right ?

 

[Grant_C]

Antonio.

 

[jay4]

Cue deluge of funny bald men pics taking this thread up to the much hyped 200 pages...

hope not! still a serious thread which is important when it comes to anyone googling this subject worldwide , no point turning it silly

 

[jay4]

Antonio.[
antonio who . thats not emchowicz

 

[Caswellbot]

That isnt Toni.

 

[tiefighterboy]