Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[lee gray]

Conclusions - Toni is a ****ing genius and I give up

Yeah I actually think people should be thanking Toni allowing them to pick up minty carded figures at a decent price, especially hard to find figure bubble combos which wouldnt exist otherwise instead of blaming him

Anyone seen any Toni carded figures with weak bubbles fall of their cards with the amount graded by AFA and no bubble protection inside the acrylic case and the amount of travelling they do ?

 

[jay4]

Conclusions - Toni is a ****ing genius and I give up

Yeah I actually think people should be thanking Toni allowing them to pick up minty carded figures at a decent price, especially hard to find figure bubble combos which wouldnt exist otherwise instead of blaming him

Anyone seen any Toni carded figures with weak bubbles fall of their cards with the amount graded by AFA and no bubble protection inside the acrylic case and the amount of travelling they do ?

i for one have never seen an afa cased with a bubble falling off within it on my travels on ebay anyways! (which is extensive and every other day and has been for 10+ years at least)
and dont recall ever seeing a photo of such a thing either kenner or pali and as you say law averages says if tt seals are so weak & with so many having been graded some examples of loose bubbles on pali cards in afa cases would exist, :?: pointing to supposed tt seals not being weak in great number at all.
i think that any weak seals or any of these that have fell off cards nicely showing weak seals will be far far far fewer than those that exist with good strong seals most likely down to the bonding being perfected over time

 

[mr_palitoy]

I've spent a few hours with an anglepoise lamp and a camera trying to see a pattern in my suspected cards, and I really am none the wiser.

The GM Han Hoth, has a square sticker mark on the back (like a genuine German card), a lined waffle seal but an 03 bubble - my Kenner Han Hoths have 02 bubbles.

There are apparently 100s of Han Hoth GM cardbacks

The 03 is very pronounced and apparently this is a good sign...

Is this a genuine card with an 03 bubble or a Toni with a very good seal? - I have no idea

Next up the 45B Bossk,

Once again a cardback that exists in the 100s, and an 03 bubble when ?others have an 011. The 0 is clear but the 3 very vague - an apparent sign of a Toni

The card has the exact same lined waffle seal as the Han Hoth and other genuine GM seals, but there is a TIE pilot in this thread with a similar seal and that is assumed to be a Toni.

On this there is a small square sticker rip - a Toni price tag or a shop price tag?

It also has score marks at the top and bottom - anyone seen these on a Toni?

My last supposed Toni is the GM Stormtrooper, a mint card, a clear thin line of seal, a bubble with dimples (now assumed to be genuine) but shipped across the Atlantic at least twice and no sign of the bubble falling off. A near definite Toni but you'd be a brave man to open it on the evidence...

Lastly the most obvious Toni produced item - but it's a Kenner 48 back, bought from the States and is a genuine factory sealed card complete with waffle seal

1. An unpunched mint card
2. Although an 02 bubble, the 0 is clear but the 2 is squashed like there is too much heat
3. Air pockets in the seal

Conclusions - Toni is a ****ing genius and I give up

I think the 011 on genuine Bossk is my bad. The sample card I found on vectis looks like yours, and I now think it has a 0 with faint 3 rather than 11
as i first thought. And yours has a price sticker. So will change the guide to reflect that.

cheers Jason

 

[jedisearcher]

Where did this idea that all Toni bubbles fall off come from? Where does it go from here - if the bubble is on, it must be legit? I'm lost ...

And for the post above, surely the 48 back is legit, it's Kenner, and waffle seal. So what about the bubble number, the numbers prove nothing. Proper Waffle seal + Kenner = 100% legit.

It's minty, so are loads. It's got some seal issues, so have loads. There's zero evidence of Toni having Kenner cards, or being able to get a proper waffle seal. I'm saying that one is fine. I'm not sure why you'd doubt it?

 

[spoons]

Where did this idea that all Toni bubbles fall off come from? Where does it go from here - if the bubble is on, it must be legit? I'm lost ...

And for the post above, surely the 48 back is legit, it's Kenner, and waffle seal. So what about the bubble number, the numbers prove nothing. Proper Waffle seal + Kenner = 100% legit.

It's minty, so are loads. It's got some seal issues, so have loads. There's zero evidence of Toni having Kenner cards, or being able to get a proper waffle seal. I'm saying that one is fine. I'm not sure why you'd doubt it?

I don't doubt it - I was using it to show how difficult it is to spot a Toni. The one obviously genuine card has the most Toni tells

 

[spoons]

I think the 011 on genuine Bossk is my bad. The sample card I found on vectis looks like yours, and I now think it has a 0 with faint 3 rather than 11
as i first thought. And yours has a price sticker. So will change the guide to reflect that.

cheers Jason

OK Jason - I did wonder how you saw the 011, but kept quiet as I've been mistaken so often in this thread

Based on the bubble guide so far, the 03 bubble seems to be a default one, which makes life difficult. It might also explain why there were so many spares for Toni to buy

 

[Lee77]

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I've had a couple of hours free at work and I've been doing a little digging.

It seems that Arthur could quite easily clear all this up. I remember Toni saying he's passed on a few years back. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a lie.

On this link http://www.ccdni.com/director-arthur-bailey-4

It shows Arthur as a director of a couple of retail companies, with Samuel Thomas Bailey (his son maybe?) and our good old friend Toni E as co workers.
I've done a few more searches and found a listing on the electoral register, in the same town, Huddersfield, with Arthur, Thomas and Ann (wife?) all living at. And as of today's date, Arthur is still registered alive.

It could be a coincidence but what are the chances of 2 people with the same names living in the same town that also used to be involved with Toni?

The report I got wasn't free so I don't want to post it on here, but to me, it looks like Arthur's alive and well. On the company directors page, it gives his birth year as 1951, which is the same birth year as on the report.

Food for thought .............

 

[jedisearcher]

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I've had a couple of hours free at work and I've been doing a little digging.

It seems that Arthur could quite easily clear all this up. I remember Toni saying he's passed on a few years back. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a lie.

On this link http://www.ccdni.com/director-arthur-bailey-4

It shows Arthur as a director of a couple of retail companies, with Samuel Thomas Bailey (his son maybe?) and our good old friend Toni E as co workers.
I've done a few more searches and found a listing on the electoral register, in the same town, Huddersfield, with Arthur, Thomas and Ann (wife?) all living at. And as of today's date, Arthur is still registered alive.

It could be a coincidence but what are the chances of 2 people with the same names living in the same town that also used to be involved with Toni?

The report I got wasn't free so I don't want to post it on here, but to me, it looks like Arthur's alive and well. On the company directors page, it gives his birth year as 1951, which is the same birth year as on the report.

Food for thought .............

Wow Lee that's very interesting. Looks like Toni accidently forgot Arthur hasn't died after all :twisted:

I'm bumping the other thread as well. We need numbers to make the authorities get to work for us.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19235

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

So the plot thickens

 

[jay4]

lee

this shows the whole clan you mentioned above 2003-2013 , :wink: : here http://www.192.com/atoz/people/bailey/ann/hd3/2669086214/


EDIT samuels shows NO arthur bailiey registered from 2009 onwards so possible he is sadly deceased circa 08 - http://www.192.com/atoz/people/bailey/samuel/hd3/2299519178/

this was also all mentioned a while ago see- http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11326&start=450

 

[mr_palitoy]

Sorry Jason

My heads gone after catching up on this thread!

I meant 45 c rotj cards. They're mainly tri bubbles/high grades.

Yes, they are on the list already.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I've had a couple of hours free at work and I've been doing a little digging.

It seems that Arthur could quite easily clear all this up. I remember Toni saying he's passed on a few years back. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a lie.

On this link http://www.ccdni.com/director-arthur-bailey-4

It shows Arthur as a director of a couple of retail companies, with Samuel Thomas Bailey (his son maybe?) and our good old friend Toni E as co workers.
I've done a few more searches and found a listing on the electoral register, in the same town, Huddersfield, with Arthur, Thomas and Ann (wife?) all living at. And as of today's date, Arthur is still registered alive.

It could be a coincidence but what are the chances of 2 people with the same names living in the same town that also used to be involved with Toni?

The report I got wasn't free so I don't want to post it on here, but to me, it looks like Arthur's alive and well. On the company directors page, it gives his birth year as 1951, which is the same birth year as on the report.

Food for thought .............

Arthur has been confirmed as deceased by Toni and also by Jason Joiner about 7 years ago.

Different Bailey maybe?

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Have overhauled the guide with bubble examples for all card variations and also some more info about where all the various cards originate from.

As well as appearing on 65d, the square bubbles with rectangular corners that Tonis uses are also found on shop sold 65c cards.

cheers Jason

 

[Lee77]

Sorry Jason

My heads gone after catching up on this thread!

I meant 45 c rotj cards. They're mainly tri bubbles/high grades.

Yes, they are on the list already.

cheers Jason

What I'm getting at is that most of the Luke Bespins that I've seen are either tri bubbles or the square edged bubbles that come on a lot of tt cards.

Supposing Toni has sealed them all, that would suggest that he's sealed tri logo bubbles too. Who's to say tri logo cardbacks aren't on the pages (conveniently) missing from JJ's list?

There seems to be no pattern as to why some 45c's appear with mainly tri bubbles whilst others have all sorts.

Are all Luke Bespins that are graded highly, suspicious or just certain bubble types?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Sorry Jason

My heads gone after catching up on this thread!

I meant 45 c rotj cards. They're mainly tri bubbles/high grades.

Yes, they are on the list already.

cheers Jason

What I'm getting at is that most of the Luke Bespins that I've seen are either tri bubbles or the square edged bubbles that come on a lot of tt cards.

Supposing Toni has sealed them all, that would suggest that he's sealed tri logo bubbles too. Who's to say tri logo cardbacks aren't on the pages (conveniently) missing from JJ's list?

There seems to be no pattern as to why some 45c's appear with mainly tri bubbles whilst others have all sorts.

Are all Luke Bespins that are graded highly, suspicious or just certain bubble types?

The square edged bubbles are Tonis, the ones with Tri Logo bubbles are believed to be UK cards sent to Spain that were sealed with tri logo bubbles
and PBP figures (well that is at least the case for han hoth).

There's no evidence of Toni having tri logo bubbles or cardbacks yet. Though you would think a few would be kicking about when
they cleared out the closed factory.

cheers Jason

 

[Lee77]

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I've had a couple of hours free at work and I've been doing a little digging.

It seems that Arthur could quite easily clear all this up. I remember Toni saying he's passed on a few years back. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a lie.

On this link http://www.ccdni.com/director-arthur-bailey-4

It shows Arthur as a director of a couple of retail companies, with Samuel Thomas Bailey (his son maybe?) and our good old friend Toni E as co workers.
I've done a few more searches and found a listing on the electoral register, in the same town, Huddersfield, with Arthur, Thomas and Ann (wife?) all living at. And as of today's date, Arthur is still registered alive.

It could be a coincidence but what are the chances of 2 people with the same names living in the same town that also used to be involved with Toni?

The report I got wasn't free so I don't want to post it on here, but to me, it looks like Arthur's alive and well. On the company directors page, it gives his birth year as 1951, which is the same birth year as on the report.

Food for thought .............

Arthur has been confirmed as deceased by Toni and also by Jason Joiner about 7 years ago.

Different Bailey maybe?

cheers Jason

It's too much of a coincidence!

Arthur Bailey born 1951
Samuel Bailey born 1980

Both registered on the same company in Huddersfield with Antoni Emcowitz.
And the electoral register has them still living at the same address today.

The report I got has a 'Mortality' section and states that there are no records of AB being deceased.



Btw, you might be onto something regarding tri bubbles packed in Spain, but the Luke Bespins I used to own (both hair colours) aren't PBP figures.

What a mess. TT needs to try and sort this **** storm out.

 

[jay4]

I don't know if this is the correct thread to post this but I've had a couple of hours free at work and I've been doing a little digging.

It seems that Arthur could quite easily clear all this up. I remember Toni saying he's passed on a few years back. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a lie.

On this link http://www.ccdni.com/director-arthur-bailey-4

It shows Arthur as a director of a couple of retail companies, with Samuel Thomas Bailey (his son maybe?) and our good old friend Toni E as co workers.
I've done a few more searches and found a listing on the electoral register, in the same town, Huddersfield, with Arthur, Thomas and Ann (wife?) all living at. And as of today's date, Arthur is still registered alive.

It could be a coincidence but what are the chances of 2 people with the same names living in the same town that also used to be involved with Toni?

The report I got wasn't free so I don't want to post it on here, but to me, it looks like Arthur's alive and well. On the company directors page, it gives his birth year as 1951, which is the same birth year as on the report.

Food for thought .............

Arthur has been confirmed as deceased by Toni and also by Jason Joiner about 7 years ago.

Different Bailey maybe?

cheers Jason

It's too much of a coincidence!

Arthur Bailey born 1951
Samuel Bailey born 1980

Both registered on the same company in Huddersfield with Antoni Emcowitz.
And the electoral register has them still living at the same address today.

The report I got has a 'Mortality' section and states that there are no records of AB being deceased.



Btw, you might be onto something regarding tri bubbles packed in Spain, but the Luke Bespins I used to own (both hair colours) aren't PBP figures.

What a mess. TT needs to try and sort this **** storm out.

its deffo the right arthur but the electoral shows no arthur today & by the looks of it he deceased circa 2008 ;-) see my post on previous page :wink:
just too add my wee mam died early 2012 and her name is still attached to my old mans address and name on the electoral

 

[panastur]

...the ones with Tri Logo bubbles are believed to be UK cards sent to Spain that were sealed with tri logo bubbles
and PBP figures (well that is at least the case for han hoth).

cheers Jason

... ... :shock: ... :? ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[jedisearcher]

.

edit: Jumping to conclusions :wink:

 

[Lee77]

its deffo the right arthur but the electoral shows no arthur today & by the looks of it he deceased circa 2008 ;-) see my post on previous page :wink:
just too add my wee mam died early 2012 and her name is still attached to my old mans address and name on the electoral

I reckon you're right Jay. Shame, cos I thought I was onto something........

...the ones with Tri Logo bubbles are believed to be UK cards sent to Spain that were sealed with tri logo bubbles
and PBP figures (well that is at least the case for han hoth).

It makes no sense to send cards from the Uk to Spain for packaging, and for them to be sent back to the uk. I was told a while back that the Luke Bespins are not Pbp figures.