Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[x-pack]

If Toni is innocent this thread is so libellous that we should all be worried - Toni's silence on that is fairly damning too

Maybe a quiet word to a few more tin robot guys is the way forward. If John and Lee have contacts Toni robots could be checked discretely.

Very true. The cardback investigation is running out of steam from what I can see. There are plenty of facts now to go off for a case to be put together. it might be unwise to spread this further than the hundreds of star wars forum members who already know about it. I disagree with going onto a completely different collecting forum and effectively letting people know. Toni is still innocent remember.

Is anybody willing to take this further? I have never seen a discussion on this level about alleged criminal activity and it might be dangerous or damaging to a case to keep on fishing around looking for facts.

Where is this heading?

 

[Grant_C]

I don't think its running out of steam, its just Christmas.

ALOT of collectors may be hit my this. Im sure that after the break we can correlate all the evidence together.

So eat as many mince pies as you can. You will need the energy.

 

[x-pack]

True true

Just be careful guys. I think we've gone past discussing the possibility of someone resealing old stock and into something else. Maybe something that needs professional guidance

 

[mr_palitoy]

Before the list surfaced I had some concern about these 3 MOC's but now it's just the Hammerhead, I can see the bubble position from the back implying there was pressure used, although it's not as visable as the other 2 MOC's. also seen a GM PD in hand yesterday which looks the same as my Hammerhead from the back.

These pics aren't great but if any one wants something else just ask
http://s19.photobucket.com/user/scotthughes1/library/Pics

Can see the pics now.

Hmm, I can see that Palitoy ROTJ Walrusman is not on JJ's list. I have one, and assumed it was on the list. But the list is inaccurate and it is a figure/card combo
that has been on sale on toytoni.com multiple times, and there are at least 10 AFA graded and it's one you can pick up minty mint quite easily.

So I would put that in question too.

Jason

 

[edd_jedi]

I don't think there is any evidence of attempts to seal tri logo style bubbles yet. That would be a whole new kettle of fish

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Maybe if it did go legal.

A signed petition by the community, even global, could not go ignored.

I agree with this.

Also something that i cant seem to ignore is the fact that Toni has changed his ebay ID 30 times or more. Now who would do that if they had something to hide?

Also Jason I think Junior Chubb has a Palitoy 65 Back Walrusman he brought from me? I in turn brought from auction? Perhaps he could help shed some light on that?

 

[Richard_H]

I think Junior Chubb has a Palitoy 65 Back Walrusman he brought from me? I in turn brought from auction? Perhaps he could help shed some light on that?

Scamming ****! And trying to deflect it from an auction. Derby isn't too far from Coalville. Or Brighton for that matter. New lead guys!



:lol:

 

[mr_palitoy]

I don't think there is any evidence of attempts to seal tri logo style bubbles yet. That would be a whole new kettle of fish

Yeah, I think mines tri logo style bubble too. Maybe leave it for now then.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

I don't think there is any evidence of attempts to seal tri logo style bubbles yet. That would be a whole new kettle of fish

Yeah, I think mines tri logo style bubble too. Maybe leave it for now then.

cheers Jason

The 2 on toytoni.com have the tri logo bubbles too.

Jason

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

I think Junior Chubb has a Palitoy 65 Back Walrusman he brought from me? I in turn brought from auction? Perhaps he could help shed some light on that?

Scamming ****! And trying to deflect it from an auction. Derby isn't too far from Coalville. Or Brighton for that matter. New lead guys!



:lol:

:lol: :lol:

Cheeky ******!! :lol:

 

[Richard_H]

Iain wannabe

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

:lol:

BTW Derby Is a long way from Brighton :wink: :mrgreen: :lol:

 

[itfciain]

Iain wannabe

Who isn't ?

 

[snaggletooth]

Before the list surfaced I had some concern about these 3 MOC's but now it's just the Hammerhead, I can see the bubble position from the back implying there was pressure used, although it's not as visable as the other 2 MOC's. also seen a GM PD in hand yesterday which looks the same as my Hammerhead from the back.

These pics aren't great but if any one wants something else just ask
http://s19.photobucket.com/user/scotthughes1/library/Pics

Can see the pics now.

Hmm, I can see that Palitoy ROTJ Walrusman is not on JJ's list. I have one, and assumed it was on the list. But the list is inaccurate and it is a figure/card combo
that has been on sale on toytoni.com multiple times, and there are at least 10 AFA graded and it's one you can pick up minty mint quite easily.

So I would put that in question too.

Jason

It was because I seen how many WM Tony had sold on eBay that made me question mine. Spoons eased my mind on my Han but then Mathias posted and I remembered the circles (print errors) on the back of my Han card. IMO not something that would have been stopped by QC and when I compare the Walrus to the Han I think it's legit, both figures are from the same factory and share the same blaster.

Maybe the Han and WM are some of the original figures Tony has been selling, would be great if JJ could find that other list (that's stapled to the back of this one.) so we could work out what's legit

Edit- i should have also said none of these where brought directly from Tony

 

[lee gray]

Before the list surfaced I had some concern about these 3 MOC's but now it's just the Hammerhead, I can see the bubble position from the back implying there was pressure used, although it's not as visable as the other 2 MOC's. also seen a GM PD in hand yesterday which looks the same as my Hammerhead from the back.

These pics aren't great but if any one wants something else just ask
http://s19.photobucket.com/user/scotthughes1/library/Pics

Can see the pics now.

Hmm, I can see that Palitoy ROTJ Walrusman is not on JJ's list. I have one, and assumed it was on the list. But the list is inaccurate and it is a figure/card combo
that has been on sale on toytoni.com multiple times, and there are at least 10 AFA graded and it's one you can pick up minty mint quite easily.

So I would put that in question too.

Jason

It was because I seen how many WM Tony had sold on eBay that made me question mine. Spoons eased my mind on my Han but then Mathias posted and I remembered the circles (print errors) on the back of my Han card. IMO not something that would have been stopped by QC and when I compare the Walrus to the Han I think it's legit, both figures are from the same factory and share the same blaster.

Maybe the Han and WM are some of the original figures Tony has been selling, would be great if JJ could find that other list (that's stapled to the back of this one.) so we could work out what's legit

Edit- i should have also said none of these where brought directly from Tony

Yeah as otherwise every palitoy ROTJ card could be questioned, i notice this card too has the red blob next to chewbacca on the back but as a few members said they have this on cards purchased from stores it means these cards cant have been factory rejects for QC left over.

Does anyone own a ROTJ fett 45back nein numb offer without a redblob as that would mean they would have come from a different batch and although not totally important as we know these have been seen on genuine shop sold figures, it would mean it came from a different batch than Toni, as all his fetts have the blob so more chance of being genuine

 

[panastur]

They made missing or newly needed bubbles in the 2000s. Quite clear.
Everybody can check: http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.toytoni.com

TT offering :

I know TT offered no GM Power Droid and GM FX7 in the early 2000s. Special size bubbles needed!

2003
esb yoda palitoy german issue factory punched c9+ £125 photo

2004 (kraftdermacht: ran out of small bubbles, or carded figures were sold)
esb yoda palitoy german issue factory punched c9+ £125 out of stock

2007 (kraftdermacht: Cool, suddenly snake variations, same with Ben white/grey)
esb yoda brown snake palitoy c8 £135 photo
esb yoda orange snake palitoy c8 £165 photo

Chewie with pictures blow.

Wolfgang

Addition to the repro bubble discussion. Above you see the TT IG88 I bought from Toni. I now checked my used GM cards again. I have a single stem and a dubble stem IG88 card. The single stem card had a "09" bubble! Can still clearly be seen. Toni's IG88 has no numbered bubble.

Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,

Like you said, i strongly believe Toni made Repro "single stem" bubble.
I made a post on it in the other section: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18756&start=15#p262637

JC

 

[panastur]

Double post, sorry

 

[panastur]

I just took a look at my two 65 back Palitoy 4LOMs (none on the list but I thought I'd check anyways). One of them has an Italian import sticker on it, so I'd assume that one is safe. The other matches perfectly. One thing I noticed is they are both unsealed along the bottom where the double stem bubble would be. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or is useful or not. I thought it was interesting though that Palitoy seemingly just used the same machine to seal all the bubbles. I thought they would've changed it depending on the bubble type.

I have also a JEDI 65bk C-3PO RL cardback with this same kind of "L" shaped seal. The cardback has a german price sticker...

JC

 

[obiwannacollect]

Twas the night before Christmas and all was not well in the star wars community.

I appreciate I'm 132 pages late but have sat back as three years collecting experience doesn't count for much when I listen to you guys. I'm struggling to keep up. Having said that I have four GM cards from TT and four palitoy's, one of which came directly from TT, the others I'm sure originated from him.

I will post the link to my flikr account of all the pictures I have taken, apologies if it's no use or irrelevant. Just now I have conducted a little experiment. All TT GM's and palitoy's on one shelf, my one and only non TT GM and all the non TT palitoys on the other shelf. Every single TT ( except han bespin with no English text on the back ) care has EXACTLY the same seal, characterised by a dull no texture finish. All the others have a mottled or speckled finish, waffle patterns and stamps on bubble seals. If I'm being a dummy and there is a valid reason behind this then I'm sorry. I can only make observations and then comment on them.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/scubadivercisco

How would people feel about a "surgery" being set up so people could get together and compare cards? Never be easy as we live all over the country but you never know, might help. I live in Kent.

And to answer a question recently asked how far am I prepared to go? As far as is required. I'm down nearly £700

If anybody spots anything that I've missed please let me know.

Merry Christmas! Hope Santa doesn't bring me anything fake and expensive.

 

[Palifan]

So am I right in thinking that all the suspect TT new seals are single stem bubbles with no number on the bubble?

Not sure if I've got that right, after reading every page it's still hard to keep up at times!

(Forgot to say that I'm only talking about the single stem ones and not the double stem ones which I know there is doubt about some of these)

Ian

 

[gonk_from_rs]

obiwannacollect - didn't you say somewhere else that your 65-back hoth trooper is also suspect? Or do you feel yours is legit? Either way, could you post photos of it? Does it have the little black smudge to the right of the rotj logo, or little white flecks embedded in the gloss?

 

[obiwannacollect]

So am I right in thinking that all the suspect TT new seals are single stem bubbles with no number on the bubble?

Not sure if I've got that right, after reading every page it's still hard to keep up at times!

(Forgot to say that I'm only talking about the single stem ones and not the double stem ones which I know there is doubt about some of these)

Ian

Your not the only one struggling to keep up! There's a list somewhere in this thread, but I think both single and double stems are on the hitlist

 

[Palifan]

But is it just the single stem without numbers on them?

 

[obiwannacollect]

obiwannacollect - didn't you say somewhere else that your 65-back hoth trooper is also suspect? Or do you feel yours is legit? Either way, could you post photos of it? Does it have the little black smudge to the right of the rotj logo, or little white flecks embedded in the gloss?

My dear friend I don't know what's legit or not anymore! Black smudge present, in addition both red and blue vertical lines present. Photo's upload here, hope you can see them.

http://www.flicker.com/photos/scubadivercisco

 

[gonk_from_rs]

Thanks for those photos. Does your hoth trooper have iron marks on it by any chance?

BTW - the red and blue lines don't mean anything. They even exist on the kenners.

 

[Caswellbot]

Whilst looking through the carded figs Jason joiner bought to ff4 I also noticed that many of the suspect seals on the bubbles had a matt greyish look to them and not a shiny gloss black finish you might expect. I know its not comparing like for like but all "slick seal" kenners I have seen have had a shiny glossy blacky look under the lip of the bubble so this did strike me as odd when looking at these palitoy seals.

Chris.

 

[obiwannacollect]

Thanks for those photos. Does your hoth trooper have iron marks on it by any chance?

BTW - the red and blue lines don't mean anything. They even exist on the kenners.

no iron marks sir, what's the verdict?

 

[gonk_from_rs]

Thanks for those photos. Does your hoth trooper have iron marks on it by any chance?

BTW - the red and blue lines don't mean anything. They even exist on the kenners.

no iron marks sir, what's the verdict?

There is no verdict. I am trying to compile a list of 65-back hoth troopers that we know are legit, and those that we know are suspect. If yours had iron marks, or if you know anything else about its history that would make it suspect, that would put it in the suspect camp. If, on the other hand, you have had it since the 80s, or you know enough about its history to know it's legit, that would put it in the "legit" camp. It sounds like you don't know where it came from, and since it doesn't have iron marks, we just don't know which camp it should be in. I would say the presence of the smudge is suspicious, but until we get enough known-legit examples to compare against, we can't be sure. So far, only one person has come up with a known-legit example, and it doesn't have the smudge. There are several examples of suspect pieces, and all but one of them has the smudge.

 

[spoons]

But is it just the single stem without numbers on them?

As yet there is no definitive rule, but from observations so far an 03 bubble is more likey to be legit, although there's been at least one photo of an ironed on 03

Unstamped single stems and double stems are both suspect and at the moment a few of us feel that those with dimples are either repro or sealed in a way that leaves a tell.

From Lee Grays Boba photos it seems that once the single and double stems ran out then the no stem larger bubbles were used on the ROTJ cards, as yet there's been little comment over how to tell a genuine one.

Has anyone got a GM card with these larger bubbles? If not does that mean there is a degree of thought from Toni over matching cardbacks to bubbles?

 

[obiwannacollect]

Thanks for those photos. Does your hoth trooper have iron marks on it by any chance?

BTW - the red and blue lines don't mean anything. They even exist on the kenners.

no iron marks sir, what's the verdict?

There is no verdict. I am trying to compile a list of 65-back hoth troopers that we know are legit, and those that we know are suspect. If yours had iron marks, or if you know anything else about its history that would make it suspect, that would put it in the suspect camp. If, on the other hand, you have had it since the 80s, or you know enough about its history to know it's legit, that would put it in the "legit" camp. It sounds like you don't know where it came from, and since it doesn't have iron marks, we just don't know which camp it should be in. I would say the presence of the smudge is suspicious, but until we get enough known-legit examples to compare against, we can't be sure. So far, only one person has come up with a known-legit example, and it doesn't have the smudge. There are several examples of suspect pieces, and all but one of them has the smudge.

Don't know where it came from? It came from toytoni, that's why I'm here on this thread. I've had it for two years.