Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[DarthStanley]

Lol! Next time use pictures Dave! Well, with Batman's test pictures and Dave's write up there shouldn't be any shadow of a doubt that it's a simple thing to do at home with pretty basic machinery.

What's next on the list of things we need to debunk? :lol:

Was JoeY really Pegasus Kid!!! :lol:

 

[Caswellbot]

I believe so. Weird huh? What's that all about?

 

[David Tree]

Maybe if you used something like this as an avatar people might take you a bit more seriously Dave.

the horror!!!

hey I'm not worthy of the two tone colours

 

[Lafos]

I did a simple experiment to see if i could seal part of a blister to a german cardback using materials that were available in the early 90's and this is the result

I've discussed the details of the experiment and how to use it to seal full blisters with Joe_o and i think it's safe to say for now myth plausible .

I' d like to get more details about the process of sealing you used, but can understand you don't want to publicly reveal this.

further proof no-one reads my posts :lol:

David, I knew your post, but would like to know how Batman did it. :wink:

 

[Joe]

David, I knew your post, but would like to know how Batman did it. :wink:

In all honesty Dave's explanation is all you really need Lafos, the method Batman used was rather similar.

 

[spoons]

I think Lafos is joking Joe :lol:

On another matter, I'm trying to trace the origins of my suspect cards - does anyone know Steven Beale/Freeballer. I bought my stormy off him as birthday treat in 2011 :roll: but he doesn't seem to be around any more.

Just wondered if he bought it off Toni?

The Bossk was an eBay buy of Jabba the Nutt in 2011, and I've asked Jabba if he remembers where it came from. Hopefully having a better idea of Toni and non-Toni stock should clear this up.

I still think the bubble dimples are currently the only potential giveaway, as Wolff and Del have pointed out the pimples appear on bubbles with different stems but only on 45 backs, and as yet none of these are clearly shop bought..

 

[edd_jedi]

I think it's fair to assume that 99% of dead mint European MOCs originate from Toni, even if they have passed hands several times since.

 

[jimbody1]

I think Lafos is joking Joe :lol:

On another matter, I'm trying to trace the origins of my suspect cards - does anyone know Steven Beale/Freeballer. I bought my stormy off him as birthday treat in 2011 :roll: but he doesn't seem to be around any more.

Just wondered if he bought it off Toni?

The Bossk was an eBay buy of Jabba the Nutt in 2011, and I've asked Jabba if he remembers where it came from. Hopefully having a better idea of Toni and non-Toni stock should clear this up.

I still think the bubble dimples are currently the only potential giveaway, as Wolff and Del have pointed out the pimples appear on bubbles with different stems but only on 45 backs, and as yet none of these are clearly shop bought..

I know freeballer mate and yes if its a gm stormie it came from Toni.

 

[spoons]

I think Lafos is joking Joe :lol:

On another matter, I'm trying to trace the origins of my suspect cards - does anyone know Steven Beale/Freeballer. I bought my stormy off him as birthday treat in 2011 :roll: but he doesn't seem to be around any more.

Just wondered if he bought it off Toni?

The Bossk was an eBay buy of Jabba the Nutt in 2011, and I've asked Jabba if he remembers where it came from. Hopefully having a better idea of Toni and non-Toni stock should clear this up.

I still think the bubble dimples are currently the only potential giveaway, as Wolff and Del have pointed out the pimples appear on bubbles with different stems but only on 45 backs, and as yet none of these are clearly shop bought..

I know freeballer mate and yes if its a gm stormie it came from Toni.

Cheers Jim - I just realised I must have bought on SWCC, not been there in a while

I think it's fair to assume that 99% of dead mint European MOCs originate from Toni, even if they have passed hands several times since.

Edd, I think most are agreed on this but clearly there are non-Toni mint cards out there, and not so mint ones. I'm just trying to work out a way to spot the differences.


So far a GM 45 back with an 02 or 03 Kenner bubble is looking good, there don't appear to be any (unless someone is about to say different?) originating form Toni, and shop stock with these bubbles exists - not so the dimpled bubbles (as yet)

I've just been checking through my records and I'd hazard a guess that a shop bought TIE pilot is as rare as hens teeth, but it doesn't mean that there aren't good ones out there.

45bs and the last five sold on ebay that I picked up in searches are all AFA/UKG 85 or 90 - that does ring alarm bells

12/02/2012 TIE fighter pilot AFA85
10/03/2012 TIE fighter pilot AFA85
12/07/2012 TIE fighter pilot AFA85
30/09/2012 TIE fighter pilot AFA90
07/12/2013 TIE fighter pilot UKG90

 

[Grant_C]

I think 45a TFP are clear.

I think TFP 45b are of great concern.

Need to check lists of high grades and quantities.

 

[spoons]

I think 45a TFP are clear.

I think TFP 45b are of great concern.

Need to check lists of high grades and quantities.

I think 45a should be good for most characters, there may be a few but nowhere near the quantities as the others.

As another update there is a clear difference between the seal on an 03 bubble on a Pal or GM45 and a dimpled bubble.

The 03 bubbles do have a 'waffle' seal but its not as tight a waffle as a typical Kenner bubble - I'll try and get some pics up

The dimpled bubble has no waffling at all and I am now convinced that my Bossk is good (slight price sticker residue like the Han) but very unsure about the Stormtrooper.

It would be very useful to start a separate thread with close up bubble photos of GM and Pal 45s

 

[spoons]

very hard to seal the 'waffle' - there is some roughness around the 03 in the pic but if you own one hold it under a light and the waffling is quite clear

Hopefully no-one now comes forward with 03 bubbles from Toni :roll:

 

[tiefighterboy]

I did a simple experiment to see if i could seal part of a blister to a german cardback using materials that were available in the early 90's and this is the result
I've discussed the details of the experiment and how to use it to seal full blisters with Joe_o and i think it's safe to say for now myth plausible .

As I told you in PM, it could be possible and the outcome is spot on, although this would still would lack the pressure points as discussed by others). This now opens a new can of worms as the repro guys will most likely be watching this thread as well and now have a new process. :shock:


I still do not 100% believe joiner for my own reasons on this........but I will keep those reserved. :wink:

 

[jimbody1]

very hard to seal the 'waffle' - there is some roughness around the 03 in the pic but if you own one hold it under a light and the waffling is quite clear

Hopefully no-one now comes forward with 03 bubbles from Toni :roll:

er ive got news for you mate, ive had waffled bubble figures off toni, there was at least a few in what i bought as i bought one of each gm card as well as a few palitoy tie pilots and fetts.

 

[batman]

I did a simple experiment to see if i could seal part of a blister to a german cardback using materials that were available in the early 90's and this is the result
I've discussed the details of the experiment and how to use it to seal full blisters with Joe_o and i think it's safe to say for now myth plausible .

As I told you in PM, it could be possible and the outcome is spot on, although this would still would lack the pressure points as discussed by others). This now opens a new can of worms as the repro guys will most likely be watching this thread as well and now have a new process. :shock:


I still do not 100% believe joiner for my own reasons on this........but I will keep those reserved. :wink:

That's the reason i haven't mentioned the fresh unicorn milk and magic wand you would need to do this trick. Move along now scammers, this is not the post you are looking for :lol:

 

[tiefighterboy]

I think we need to focus on Joiner's shady past and ask questions about that. His ramblings take the heat off of him and make us focus on Toni. When you ask him about the things he has done...............he manipulates it to somehow turn back to this issue...which he acts like it was nothing....he plays stupid...but he damn well knows this was going to cause a **** storm. It all works to his advantage by bringing him back into the community and throwing the hounds on another dealer. Just an observation.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Thats correct they came from Arthur Bailie he bought around 25,000 figures bubbles and cards i was in on the deal and tried to buy the lot of Arthur but lost out to Toni , i think Toni bought them for around £10K , i know at one point Arthur was trying to buy figures as he had cards but no figures to put on them , what i really wanted was a set of the cards unused for myself but that never happened, i used to see Toni place ads in model mart though out the 90s and early 2000s selling these figures, he said to me once that he had found a way t heat the bubbles and attach them to the cards in the same way they did at the factory i think he may have even gone to a factory to have them put on the cards, i have never really gone for these German cards as i felt they were not relay finished figures, somewhere have a complete brake down of all the cards , there was also around 2000 carded figures that came in at the same time as Arthur bought the cards , i bought 500 carded hoth troopers on ROTJ cards and also around 700 Boba fett figures on ROTJ cards also , i sold the 700 to Crage Steven's a collator in Romford who when he got them opened them all that was around 1988 ish i think ? anyway there you go some more history


Several friends have contacted me regarding a post by a certain Jason Joiner and having read his "story" I feel its necessary to reply.
This story is mainly fantasy with a few facts thrown in.
As a one time major dealer and expert in Star Wars it is bizarre that after some 25 years Mr Joiner should now come up with this "information" out of the blue!
I have been dealing in many different types of vintage toys for over 30 years including Star Wars for about 25 years . Ive been on Ebay since 1998 and have had 2 websites Toytoni and Zoomertoys running for the last 16 years. I have not seen or had any communication with Mr Joiner for the best of 20 years nor have I heard of him making such comments elsewhere.
I did indeed buy various toys from a dealer called Arthur in the 80s and early 90s these included tin toys , robots, TV related and carded Star Wars figures. He had a reputation for getting old stock and had good contacts in the regular toy trade. He was one of several dealers that I bought carded Star Wars from. He seemed a nice guy who seemed always short of cash and often offered items which he didn't exactly have but could get his hands on if he could make the sale in advance .So at times it wasn't clear if he actually had the goods or just new a man who had them .
I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised I never saw any or was offered any samples from him . I ended up buying quite large quantities of carded figures from him which were a mix of Kenner ,POTF,Palitoy.,german General Mills and Trilogo non of which came in trade boxes - in those days there wasn't that much interest in carded figures let alone in the outer boxes.
The fact that there was this list stirred up some gossip at the time about unused cards but as to whether they existed is unknown. Mr Joiner claims there were many thousands and yet he couldn't get his hands on a single example from this Arthur dealer despite buying 500 carded Hothtroopers ? and a staggering 700 carded Fetts???- what utter nonsense !He claims the Fetts were then mysteriously taken off the cards - why would someone cut up 700 carded Fetts - more nonsense- we really are in the realms of fantasy here . What happened to the 500 carded hothtroopers? Where are these 1000s of factory cards? Mr Joiners assertions that I was claiming I was going to some factory to get bubbles sealed is total fantasy .
Arthur on several occasions told me that he thoroughly disliked Mr Joiner ( as did many others- normally mild mannered guys threatening him with physical violence on several occasions at toyfairs ) so its highly unlikely that he exactly would confide in him about the details of what he had, what he kept and who he sold what to who.
I suppose it is possible that he had been offered unused cards or even had some but I have completely lost touch with Arthur since he went on to other things and have had no contact with him for over 10 years.
I hope this clarifies things if any one has any general questions Im happy to reply but please dont expect me to remember details of exactly who did or said what over 20 years ago!.
Toni

PS
As far as the seal on the General Mills and Palitoys- its generally accepted that most Palitoy Esb and Rotj have smooth seals as do the German issues which were made in the UK .
As far as ESB style bubbles on ROTJ cards is concerned this is also not that unusual although rectangular bubbles are the norm ESB style bubbles were used on ROTJ cards both Palitoy/German and Kenner .I hope that clarifies those points .

 

[DarthStanley]

Just found this lads,might be of some relevance or not???

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t890141/

 

[batman]

heh, I did say how you do it back on page 51, but no-one responded to it, it's ok folk, I'm used to it, I'll just go off now and cry to myself


Dave

Hi David, i've read your post and the funny thing is i was at work doing my experiment at almost the same moment you were writing your post. I just thought it would not be a good idea to post a full write up of the process on a public forum so i went with the pictures instead.Thanks for not mentioning the "special ingredients" involved for doing this trick :wink:

 

[søren]

What about all the Clipper moc's tony are selling ? Almost all of them are mint and there are alot floting around ... I use to own this one ... Did not get it from Tony and can't remember who i sold it to .

Here are a close up ... i took it becouse i wanted to make a post about wbg beards