Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[thirdfloor]

I can't see how storage would be a problem.

The figures are £100 each- surely that pays of a bit of space.

Space is an issue, JJ posted about the space needed to store carded figures. He has several thousand, so he should know.



Jason

The collection room in my basement is 550 square feet. I have around 1250+ carded figures, (yes I know, only 60 are vintage carded and modern doesn't really count but it takes up the same room as a carded vintage figure). Most of those figures are on display and visable. If I condensed it all into boxes or totes it would easily take up less than 5% of the volume of my room. If I could fit 25 000 carded figures into one room in my house I don't see why others could not as well. If it was just condensed cardbacks and bubbles stacked one on top of another you might be able fit that into a large closet.

 

[edd_jedi]

Yep agreed, the damage is already done unless some proof to the contrary emerges. And we've now heard the claim from several different sources.

 

[Dublinjeff]

That sounds like a Maths question i did for my final exams in school.

"If you have a 550sq ft basement and you have 25, 000 cardbacks, discount modern figures, plus bubbles, what is the area of the room left for ex Palitoy factory carding machinery? "

:lol: :lol:

 

[mrgobby]

after reading this, i am so glad that i traded my 7 carded general mills esb figures..i may have lost out on value/trade ratio but at least i don't have any fakes in my collection now!!!

on a lighter note: if any of you are after a carded 54 back tri logo/meccano/hk/no coo uzay headman... i know a man who could 'come up with something!!!!'

 

[Dublinjeff]

What a ****ing Train wreck , my head hurts after reading all this , and they community is not any further forwards :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol:

 

[x-pack]

That sounds like a Maths question i did for my final exams in school.

"If you have a 550sq ft basement and you have 25, 000 cardbacks, discount modern figures, plus bubbles, what is the area of the room left for ex Palitoy factory carding machinery? "

:lol: :lol:

I was trying to work this out. It wouldn't be that difficult for someone with a calculator. Work out the volume of one card and times that by 25,000 or Split them up into packs of say 500 and go from there. For those who collect cardbacks just look at the space 10 of these take up. Now imagine a hundred and then a thousand. Times that by 25. I don't think they would take up more than one room in a normal sized house. Of course then you have the bubbles, figures, and i'm assuming the cards don't have an excessive amount of packaging, perhaps just shrink wrap?

 

[tiefighterboy]

I love all the "Overthinking" in this. Until real evidence comes out it is all a pipe dream.

 

[jimbody1]

Yep agreed, the damage is already done unless some proof to the contrary emerges. And we've now heard the claim from several different sources.

i cant see what damage has been done apart from the fact that youve all been had over by someone who cannot provide definative proof :lol:

 

[x-pack]

I love all the "Overthinking" in this. Until real evidence comes out it is all a pipe dream.

If it turns out to be true then all the thinking will have been done :wink: Also i've just been watching Countdown on TV You probably get something similar to Countdown in the US. Basically a really really fit bird pulls letters out of a hat and contestants try to make the biggest word. There's a maths bit as well but i'm way to thick to ever get those right :|

 

[jimbody1]

I love all the "Overthinking" in this. Until real evidence comes out it is all a pipe dream.

If it turns out to be true then all the thinking will have been done :wink: Also i've just been watching Countdown on TV You probably get something similar to Countdown in the US. Basically a really really fit bird pulls letters out of a hat and contestants try to make the biggest word. There's a maths bit as well but i'm way to thick to ever get those right :|

and what would convince you it was true? what would you consider to be definitive proof that jj is not lying? for me the only proof is if arthur came forward and said whoverver bought all the unused cards and bubbles and oh yeah he picked up a heat sealer from the factory when it closed. i bet toni is laughing his arse off right now whatching you all run around in circles :lol:
yes toni bought minty figures, havnt you? i certainly have and i dare say so has mark poon before he started making his own, how many unused cards was it 10,000? good luck with finding that many minty figures even back then, sounds rediculous doesnt it? thats because it is.

 

[x-pack]

Whatever the result it's still a good old debate.

 

[jimbody1]

i agree a good debate, but probably at the expense of someones livelyhood.

 

[x-pack]

Very true

 

[ToddG]

Like a lot of people I have been following this thread. I do not have a dog in the fight as I dont own any of the pieces in question. I also have never dealt with JJ or Toni, to my knowledge. One thing I thought I could add is the 25,000 cardbacks and the figures needed. So I am guessing that there are multiple characters included in the 25,000 cardbacks. For simple math lets say that there are 25 characters so 1,000 cardbacks per character. Now it seems like the rumors of this deal are from the early 90's so that was 20 years ago at this point. So that means you have to find about 50 mint figures a year if you started with 0. And that also is assuming that all 25,000 have been sold. There still could be half of that amount of unused cardbacks waiting for figures still.

So Basically you would have to find about 25 or so mint figures a year to make this work. I think for a person who is a toy dealer as a profession this would not be difficult. I am an avid flipper on the side and have quite a few figures go through my hands in any given year. Not to mention back in the day when it was not actively collected I would think it would have been even easier. So from my point of view obtaining the figures while at first seems daunting I dont think would be a real issue, if you put some effort into it.

Regarding what actually happened I have no idea, but I do think it is possible to obtain the figures needed.


Todd

 

[tiefighterboy]

The biggest problem to me is the actual heat sealing issue. Joiner even has no clue other than to say he overheard or someone said...or there was this list. Back in the day and even now, some collectors made up grand stories just for sake of ****ing making them up. Three guys at a toy show over hear this and all of sudden figures have been magically heat sealed using factory stock bubbles.


Remeber those who swore they owned a carded blue snags or had a rocket firing boba fett when they were young. Same as someone who over hears a conversation and makes up their own events as to what was discussed.

 

[Joe]

Like a lot of people I have been following this thread. I do not have a dog in the fight as I dont own any of the pieces in question. I also have never dealt with JJ or Toni, to my knowledge. One thing I thought I could add is the 25,000 cardbacks and the figures needed. So I am guessing that there are multiple characters included in the 25,000 cardbacks. For simple math lets say that there are 25 characters so 1,000 cardbacks per character. Now it seems like the rumors of this deal are from the early 90's so that was 20 years ago at this point. So that means you have to find about 50 mint figures a year if you started with 0. And that also is assuming that all 25,000 have been sold. There still could be half of that amount of unused cardbacks waiting for figures still.

So Basically you would have to find about 25 or so mint figures a year to make this work. I think for a person who is a toy dealer as a profession this would not be difficult. I am an avid flipper on the side and have quite a few figures go through my hands in any given year. Not to mention back in the day when it was not actively collected I would think it would have been even easier. So from my point of view obtaining the figures while at first seems daunting I dont think would be a real issue, if you put some effort into it.

Regarding what actually happened I have no idea, but I do think it is possible to obtain the figures needed.


Todd

To add to what Todd has just posted, I have been reliably informed that Toni does have a second ebay account (not marsking) which he still uses to buy "mint/off the card" figures. I myself have checked the feedback and that does seem to be the truth, there were even a few U grade figures being bought by Toni too.

The mint figures Toni has recently bought on ebay are the following:

FX-7
SNOWTROOPER
LUKE FARMBOY BROWN HAIR
STORMTROOPER
LOGRAY
BOSSK
2-1B
REBEL COMMANDER
LOBOT
C-3P0 REM LIMBS


I know Toni sometimes sells loose figures but I would have thought as a dealer he wouldn't be paying top dollar for figures if he was going to then sell them as loose examples. A £25 loose Stormtrooper (advertised as "off the card") or a £70 U85 Stormtrooper doesn't leave much room for profit surely? Unless of course you were using the figure for another purpose..

Now, this thread started off about Joiner and I still very much want to go over the things Joiner has done in his past as soon as I can compile some evidence together but this thing with Toni really needs to be addressed. As such, I don't think we can really move on to props and grey limbed snowtroopers any time soon. Not until we hear from Joiner and see that list (and some more evidence if possible) and of course hear back from Toni.

The second ebay account might be nothing but it does worry me quite a bit especially when you look at the figures he is buying in mint condition.

 

[jimbody1]

So that would be 50 of each character each year then for 25 characters? That's a lot of minty loose figures over a year.

 

[x-pack]

Maybe that's what is so baffling to almost every honest person out there. Why the **** would people make this **** up? :? Why lie and make up stories? People mishear things all the time and that's fair enough, but this is not that.

 

[lee gray]

Who would really buy that many thousands of cards and bubbles over 20 years ago in the slight hope they might somehow be able to then aquire thousands of mint figures (way before the internet existed) and then hope that somehow they would be able to attach these bubbles to look like it was done at a factory..............seems like a stretch to me.

 

[itfciain]

Joe - how sure are you that this is an account linked to TT ? That figure list is very close to his current list of MOCs for sale