all this and the fact they had a company together makes it smell of rotten fish, an endless supply of palitoy and gm figures which would have needed massive storage space, and they are still being pumped out randomly with random figure combinations??
Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.
- Thread starter Grant_C
- Start date
I can't see how storage would be a problem.
The figures are £100 each- surely that pays of a bit of space.
The figures are £100 each- surely that pays of a bit of space.
Alot of these figures have a slight bit of lifting and white lines around the inner bubble which hapens over time due to bubble strain so its unlikely this would happen if they were freshly put on.....i dont really believe it myself as would have come out years ago.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
lee gray said:
It's alleged they were recarded in the 90s, so could show signs of lifting etc by now.
Jason
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Maulster79 said:I can't see how storage would be a problem.
The figures are £100 each- surely that pays of a bit of space.
Space is an issue, JJ posted about the space needed to store carded figures. He has several thousand, so he should know.
Jason
**Delboy75**
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Maulster79 said:
??
"highly likely" ?!**Delboy75** said:
I was never that confused in all these years of collecting. I fear that this "case" will not be solved and a lot of collectors are left with doubts regarding collectibles they own or collectibles offered.
thirdfloor
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mr_palitoy said:Maulster79 said:I can't see how storage would be a problem.
The figures are £100 each- surely that pays of a bit of space.
Space is an issue, JJ posted about the space needed to store carded figures. He has several thousand, so he should know.
Jason
The collection room in my basement is 550 square feet. I have around 1250+ carded figures, (yes I know, only 60 are vintage carded and modern doesn't really count but it takes up the same room as a carded vintage figure). Most of those figures are on display and visable. If I condensed it all into boxes or totes it would easily take up less than 5% of the volume of my room. If I could fit 25 000 carded figures into one room in my house I don't see why others could not as well. If it was just condensed cardbacks and bubbles stacked one on top of another you might be able fit that into a large closet.
Dublinjeff
Grand Master
That sounds like a Maths question i did for my final exams in school.
"If you have a 550sq ft basement and you have 25, 000 cardbacks, discount modern figures, plus bubbles, what is the area of the room left for ex Palitoy factory carding machinery? "
:lol: :lol:
"If you have a 550sq ft basement and you have 25, 000 cardbacks, discount modern figures, plus bubbles, what is the area of the room left for ex Palitoy factory carding machinery? "
:lol: :lol:
after reading this, i am so glad that i traded my 7 carded general mills esb figures..i may have lost out on value/trade ratio but at least i don't have any fakes in my collection now!!!
on a lighter note: if any of you are after a carded 54 back tri logo/meccano/hk/no coo uzay headman... i know a man who could 'come up with something!!!!'
on a lighter note: if any of you are after a carded 54 back tri logo/meccano/hk/no coo uzay headman... i know a man who could 'come up with something!!!!'
Dublinjeff
Grand Master
:lol:Vin3po said:
Dublinjeff said:
I was trying to work this out. It wouldn't be that difficult for someone with a calculator. Work out the volume of one card and times that by 25,000 or Split them up into packs of say 500 and go from there. For those who collect cardbacks just look at the space 10 of these take up. Now imagine a hundred and then a thousand. Times that by 25. I don't think they would take up more than one room in a normal sized house. Of course then you have the bubbles, figures, and i'm assuming the cards don't have an excessive amount of packaging, perhaps just shrink wrap?
tiefighterboy
Grand Master
I love all the "Overthinking" in this. Until real evidence comes out it is all a pipe dream.
jimbody1
Padawan
edd_jedi said:
i cant see what damage has been done apart from the fact that youve all been had over by someone who cannot provide definative proof :lol:
tiefighterboy said:
If it turns out to be true then all the thinking will have been done :wink: Also i've just been watching Countdown on TV
You probably get something similar to Countdown in the US. Basically a really really fit bird pulls letters out of a hat and contestants try to make the biggest word. There's a maths bit as well but i'm way to thick to ever get those right :|
jimbody1
Padawan
x-pack said:tiefighterboy said:
If it turns out to be true then all the thinking will have been done :wink: Also i've just been watching Countdown on TV
and what would convince you it was true? what would you consider to be definitive proof that jj is not lying? for me the only proof is if arthur came forward and said whoverver bought all the unused cards and bubbles and oh yeah he picked up a heat sealer from the factory when it closed. i bet toni is laughing his arse off right now whatching you all run around in circles :lol:
yes toni bought minty figures, havnt you? i certainly have and i dare say so has mark poon before he started making his own, how many unused cards was it 10,000? good luck with finding that many minty figures even back then, sounds rediculous doesnt it? thats because it is.
jimbody1
Padawan
i agree a good debate, but probably at the expense of someones livelyhood. 
Like a lot of people I have been following this thread. I do not have a dog in the fight as I dont own any of the pieces in question. I also have never dealt with JJ or Toni, to my knowledge. One thing I thought I could add is the 25,000 cardbacks and the figures needed. So I am guessing that there are multiple characters included in the 25,000 cardbacks. For simple math lets say that there are 25 characters so 1,000 cardbacks per character. Now it seems like the rumors of this deal are from the early 90's so that was 20 years ago at this point. So that means you have to find about 50 mint figures a year if you started with 0. And that also is assuming that all 25,000 have been sold. There still could be half of that amount of unused cardbacks waiting for figures still.
So Basically you would have to find about 25 or so mint figures a year to make this work. I think for a person who is a toy dealer as a profession this would not be difficult. I am an avid flipper on the side and have quite a few figures go through my hands in any given year. Not to mention back in the day when it was not actively collected I would think it would have been even easier. So from my point of view obtaining the figures while at first seems daunting I dont think would be a real issue, if you put some effort into it.
Regarding what actually happened I have no idea, but I do think it is possible to obtain the figures needed.
Todd
So Basically you would have to find about 25 or so mint figures a year to make this work. I think for a person who is a toy dealer as a profession this would not be difficult. I am an avid flipper on the side and have quite a few figures go through my hands in any given year. Not to mention back in the day when it was not actively collected I would think it would have been even easier. So from my point of view obtaining the figures while at first seems daunting I dont think would be a real issue, if you put some effort into it.
Regarding what actually happened I have no idea, but I do think it is possible to obtain the figures needed.
Todd
tiefighterboy
Grand Master
The biggest problem to me is the actual heat sealing issue. Joiner even has no clue other than to say he overheard or someone said...or there was this list. Back in the day and even now, some collectors made up grand stories just for sake of ******* making them up. Three guys at a toy show over hear this and all of sudden figures have been magically heat sealed using factory stock bubbles.
Remeber those who swore they owned a carded blue snags or had a rocket firing boba fett when they were young. Same as someone who over hears a conversation and makes up their own events as to what was discussed.
Remeber those who swore they owned a carded blue snags or had a rocket firing boba fett when they were young. Same as someone who over hears a conversation and makes up their own events as to what was discussed.
ToddG said:
To add to what Todd has just posted, I have been reliably informed that Toni does have a second ebay account (not marsking) which he still uses to buy "mint/off the card" figures. I myself have checked the feedback and that does seem to be the truth, there were even a few U grade figures being bought by Toni too.
The mint figures Toni has recently bought on ebay are the following:
FX-7
SNOWTROOPER
LUKE FARMBOY BROWN HAIR
STORMTROOPER
LOGRAY
BOSSK
2-1B
REBEL COMMANDER
LOBOT
C-3P0 REM LIMBS
I know Toni sometimes sells loose figures but I would have thought as a dealer he wouldn't be paying top dollar for figures if he was going to then sell them as loose examples. A £25 loose Stormtrooper (advertised as "off the card") or a £70 U85 Stormtrooper doesn't leave much room for profit surely? Unless of course you were using the figure for another purpose..
Now, this thread started off about Joiner and I still very much want to go over the things Joiner has done in his past as soon as I can compile some evidence together but this thing with Toni really needs to be addressed. As such, I don't think we can really move on to props and grey limbed snowtroopers any time soon. Not until we hear from Joiner and see that list (and some more evidence if possible) and of course hear back from Toni.
The second ebay account might be nothing but it does worry me quite a bit especially when you look at the figures he is buying in mint condition.
jimbody1
Padawan
So that would be 50 of each character each year then for 25 characters? That's a lot of minty loose figures over a year.
Maybe that's what is so baffling to almost every honest person out there. Why the **** would people make this **** up? :? Why lie and make up stories? People mishear things all the time and that's fair enough, but this is not that.
Who would really buy that many thousands of cards and bubbles over 20 years ago in the slight hope they might somehow be able to then aquire thousands of mint figures (way before the internet existed) and then hope that somehow they would be able to attach these bubbles to look like it was done at a factory..............seems like a stretch to me.
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