Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Grant_C]

At the empire day with Gary Kurtz. In the proP section where you can't take photos they have a case on display with palitoy 12 backs. 1 is A VC Jawa. I'm gonna see if they let me photograph it.

I'm not shitting you and I doubt they would have repo **** next to Harrison ford star wars contract. :shock:

 

[Joe]

Maybe it belongs to Jason Joiner :roll: (the man behind Palitoy Yak face mailers, "prototype" grey limbed snowtroopers and "prototype" Ledy 12" R2's! - not to mention all his fake props )

 

[Lee77]

Sweet Maulster
Have a good day mate.

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Awesome would love to see pics of that 8) 8)

 

[Grant_C]

Dam, wish you guys were here. :wink:

 

[e30318is]

I have been trying to find out more info on Jason joiner, I have a feeling I may have bumped into him at an auction.
I know his name is synonymous with dodgy stuff but I can't find any threads about him?
If there are such threads could you post a link, Joe? Odd request but I don't suppose there is a photo of him anywhere? I'm 99% positive the auction guy was called Jason, he told about his props collection, including the original Jabba the hutt and throne surely if that had survived it would be with Lucas film? Also it would be ******* huge :lol:

I would love to see some pictures of the Palitoy Jawa. Part of me thinks it does exist. But when it originates from a dodgy source you have to be skeptical.

Hope you chaps have a good day, sounds like there is plenty of interesting stuff. Looking forward to seeing some pictures

 

[Joe]

Sure Ed-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t804798/

Check Bill Mcbrides posts:

think he gets a bad rap for all the fake props he has sold in the past. Unfounded??--You can contact almost ANY major prop house in the world, and they will tell you the same thing. I can also direct you to quite a few toy/prop dealers here in the US who have been ripped off by good-ol' Jayson as well.

I don't see how that excuses him of the FACT that he has sold FAKE props in the past. I would suggest you contact Christie's or Sothebys, and ask any of the experts at either house, and see what they have to say.

A quote from Christian in another thread:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1054105/

The POTF Yak Face Mailer has long been a debatable subject primarily because of the sole source of these items - Jason Joiner. Bill is, as previously mentioned, a pillar of the SW community and a great bloke to deal with. However, and as he quite rightly alluded to in the auction details, the validity of the piece can't be verified 100%.

And Jordan from hollywood heroes here:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1055829/

Hi folks-

Despite my better judgment, I am going to repost what I originally wrote. I want to stress that I am only doing this due to the numerous members who have reached out to me privately. Some have suggested that it is my "duty and obligation" to share any information I have about this subject.

Just to be clear, I have nothing to gain or lose from my comments. I do not own or have not sold any bagged Yak Faces. This post is not be seen as any type of commentary for or against Tom D, AFA/CIB. I'm neutral... consider me the "Switzerland" of the collecting community.

I attended the FX 95 Toy Show in Orlando in 1995. I was on a buying trip for Starlog, and was acquiring large amounts of collectible pieces for our stores. It was this particular show that these Yak Faces first made their appearance (as best I recall).

Jason J (Joiner) set up his booth and unpacked numerous suitcases. He traveled back then with his toys in suitcases to save time and money I assume. Space back then, was key. Jason would usually pack items inside larger boxes to save space and maximize the use of the suitcase.

At this show I watched as he unpacked a 12" Stormtrooper. Inside the box, along with the doll, were what appeared to be 70-100 bagged Yak Faces. I watched as he dumped them all over the table. He had more under the table.

I know the numbers were greater than 50 pcs, because I was trying to do a deal for 50 pcs for Starlog. Instead of the Yaks, I spent the money on some "prototypes" he had set aside on the table. The protos were: Gold domed R2-D2, and the Gray Limbed Snowtrooper. He also tried to sell me a Lili-Ledy 12" R2-D2, stating that it too... was a prototype.

The booth also consisted of such treasures such as Burkes original costume from Aliens, and an original Luke Skywalker HERO lightsaber (screen used) from Star Wars... the latter of which, Jason hung from his belt strap and wore around the show (much to the amazement of onlookers).

Looking back, I should have just walked past the booth. But then again... it was amusing to see all the stuff piled up high.

For what it's worth... I was there with Mark Clark as well, who was a dear friend. RIP buddy.

Best to all-
Jordan

 

[Joe]

This is him apparently:

 

[e30318is]

Thanks Joe- looks like there is my afternoon reading sorted :lol:

If that is the guy it's not who I was thinking of. From the quotes you posted he sounds just a tad shonky. With his association that jawa will never be accepted. Total travesty if it is real :roll:

I am amazed he is still active on RS... Wonder why he hasnt been hounded out? It sounds like he is a blatant scam artist, normally the masses speak and scammers are shown the door?

 

[Joe]

I am amazed he is still active on RS... Wonder why he hasnt been hounded out? It sounds like he is a blatant scam artist, normally the masses speak and scammers are shown the door?

I don't think he is active on RS Ed, honestly I don't even think he is registered.

As far as I know Jason is mostly a prop guy but he obviously also owns toys too, he was a big dealer in the 90's that would fly over to the states to sell stuff to the yanks.

He is apparently in the Guinness book of records for having the largest Star Wars collection in the world and as such he managed to join up with Gary Kurtz for all these events/books/archive thingamajigs.

I don't know anyone who knows him personally but his reputation certainly took a beating a few years ago with all the dodgy **** he handled!

As for the Jawa - who knows, I think there is always a chance Palitoy released a VCJ but the odds are stacked against it being true. We may never know!

 

[e30318is]

Edit, my mistake- found this thread:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1075721/

I didn't realise post #5 was a quote- I thought it was straight from the horses mouth. Still I'm surprised there isn't more anninosity towards JJ.
I'm still reading up on this guy :shock:

 

[lee gray]

I have seen him at a couple of events he has organized , I have heard dodgy things about him but at the same time I am not really sure because if he was as dodgy as people say then i dont think he would be doing so many successful shows without harassment.

 

[Joe]

I have seen him at a couple of events he has organized , I have heard dodgy things about him but at the same time I am not really sure because if he was as dodgy as people say then i dont think he would be doing so many successful shows without harassment.

Makes you wonder doesn't it Lee, it's possible time has helped - it's been a long time since his name actually came up with regard to anything dodgy.

Mind you, people like Shaun N still run successful businesses and go to toy shows etc with stalls and nothing happens to him lol

 

[Caswellbot]

Thanks Joe- looks like there is my afternoon reading sorted :lol:

If that is the guy it's not who I was thinking of. From the quotes you posted he sounds just a tad shonky. With his association that jawa will never be accepted. Total travesty if it is real :roll:

I am amazed he is still active on RS... Wonder why he hasnt been hounded out? It sounds like he is a blatant scam artist, normally the masses speak and scammers are shown the door?

Here is the guy you are thinking of Ed. We discussed this a while back after you returned from the auction. Remember? :wink:

http://skywalkers.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=74

 

[_Lee_]

At the empire day with Gary Kurtz. In the proP section where you can't take photos they have a case on display with palitoy 12 backs. 1 is A VC Jawa. I'm gonna see if they let me photograph it.

I'm not shitting you and I doubt they would have repo **** next to Harrison ford star wars contract. :shock:

Im pretty sure you were mistaken mate.I was there yesterday too and took a look at the Palitoy diplay they had up.It was only the DS playset and the original 12,but im pretty sure it was a cloth cape.Also,Fords contract was way down the other end of the hall so i dont see how you are saying it was next to it.

With regards to JJ,he did at one time own a shop called 'Offworld' in my local town center.There were various stories flying around,and a local newspaper even exposed the fake props etc.However,Jason did work with other people so i cant say 100% he knew what he was sellin,but he was the boss so.The bagged Yaks incident was very suspect aswell,as were many other things.

Lee

 

[Grant_C]

Took it a bit literal there Lee.

Can I buy 'cloth' jawas from you?

Picture of palitoy VC Jawa tomorrow, when I get back home.

I DON'T GET THEM CONFUSED OR MAKE **** UP. :twisted:

 

[_Lee_]

Took it a bit literal there Lee.

Can I buy 'cloth' jawas from you?

Picture of palitoy VC Jawa tomorrow, when I get back home.

I DON'T GET THEM CONFUSED OR MAKE **** UP. :twisted:

Ok,realised my comments were a bit wrong,and that i shouldnt post like that on a forum.I just dont like sarcasm,and i was just trying to put my point across.FWIW,i didnt stand there for ages and look,but my question to you is this:

Would you beleieve Jason Joiner???because i certainly wouldnt going bu his previous record.I dont care what he says he has/hasnt got,but i wouldnt beleive this.Its just too coincidental that this should happen.My personal take on this is that he saw this up for sale from Torres and snapped it up,and as many guys here would know Torres was a lying,cheating tosser aswell.I have every respect for Jason as he puts on some great shows etc for SW fans,but he has a slightly chequered history.Also would like to state that the ESB Boba Fett gun he had at Empire day,was not the one used in the film.Im pretty sure that the Vader bust,and Trooper helmet were not screen used either.

If i am wrong and this i proven legit,i will stand up and admit i was wrong,but that was the point of my first post in this thread-which i was replied to sarcastically.I just wanted to state about the history of how two of these have shown up in dubious collectors hands,and that there is *NO* concrete proof still.Now if i had heard Jim Stevenson,Antoni Emchowiz or Andy Clarke had unearthed one then it could have been more positive,but something just doesnt sit right with me.Dont try to tell me that JJ wouldnt realise that people were searching to see if this existed and kept his mouth shut-that just doesnt add up.He is a SW historian and would have let this be known a long time ago.i think he has seen chat oer the past few years,and decided to un-earth one.Also,hearing Darren (Starzone)say it was a Vinyl Cape is very positive as he knows his stuff,but im still on the fence.

TFB,whatever you say mate-you are another one who is full of ****.You spent half your time churning out repros knowing you were damaging the hobby and you criticise Robbie for his AFA thing.Honestly,its like one of you get bitten here,and the wolf pack jumps on you.You are calling Robbie(who is a very good friend of mine-even though i dont like AFA) a piece of ****??? for the sake of a ******* toy???? grow up for **** sake. A lot of the people here and in other places are hypocrytical as they will slag Robbie off on one place,and then try to buy something from him the next minute.I would more of less bet you wouldnt have the bollocks to say it to his face aswell.Yes,i get annoyed when people call my friends such names and will say something.Its called loyalty.And dont give me the rubbish that he is being disloyal to SW fans with his AFA,ing because it wont wash.Did you call Toytoni a piece of **** for hoarding figures away??? do you call AFA graders pieces of ****??? Also,i know you collect cardbacks so would place a good bet that you have bought cardbacks in the past with cut bubbles that probably originated from AFA grading-so whos the piece of **** now?

One last thing,i have never said i was elitist or anything-im just sick of all the pathetic,childish actions taking place on forums nowadays.I respect certain people immensly,and will continue to do so but dont ask me to respect people whom are just out to start a fight in every thread,whom are not willing to listen to both sides etc.

Again,i apologise for my language,but will not apologise for what i was trying to say.

 

[Joe]

Alright fellas take a deep breath!

Let's not argue on this one

 

[Grant_C]

:lol:

Hug?

 

[Lee Gregory]

Well I don't think a pic taken through a glass display cabinet will settle this one
If the likes of Gary,Darren,yourself Lee and other experienced collectors have never come across one then the chances are we may never see one,but you never do know.

I take your point Lee about 'new' collectors posting comments that may well wind up more experienced guys such as yourself but imagine if you had seen it and didn't know the whole history of JJ or how many fakes there are out there, I can understand someone getting a bit excited if they thought they had seen one. Yeah ,maybe do a bit of homework before saying ' I've come across a Pali VCJ' but I don't think he deserved that rant.

Not looking to start an arguement,and just my thoughts.

Here is hoping for a good pic later on.

 

[Starzone]

I don't want to get into an argument either, but I will just say that I have known Grant for a long time, and he is hardly a "new collector" .... Definitely one of the old school collectors and we used to run into each other back in the early nineties.

I've not been on this forum long, and not really a forum type of guy but you shouldn't automatically assume that means "newbie"

Oh and BTW I went to Empire day and the Jawa was definitely a vinyl cape.

Darren

 

[Caswellbot]

Thanks for the confirmation Darren. How was the fair? Did you manage to get any pics of the palitoy vcj? Any other highlights?

Chris.

 

[palitoyjunky]

A friend of mine went on Sat and he saw that the Jawa in question WAS a vinyl cape and due to his experience he would not make a fundamental mistake like getting a vinyl cape mixed up with a cloth cape!!
As for the question of it's authenticity I will let you good people continue to argue that one!

 

[Lee Gregory]

My mistake Darren, I don't know Grant and I wasn't being offensive saying he was a newbie.

I know someone else who went and they thought the piece looked legit.

Interesting!!!

 

[tiefighterboy]

Grant is a stand-up guy...Robbie is a piece of ****. Their is no inner circle here and everybody is entitled to an opinion. Unless Grant was drunk and ****-faced...I am sure he seen what he seen.

 

[e30318is]

Wow, this is exciting! I wait with baited breath for pictures

Now my dream of finding a case of Palitoy VC Jawas is looking more and more like it could come true..... I think a nice weekend break to Leicester is looking very attractive :lol:

 

[Grant_C]

OK.

I'll get the pictures up tonight. Please understand that we were not allowed to take photos of things in the archive where there was a small glass cabinet with a beautiful palitoy death star and the first 12 figures on star wars palitoys. There was security making sure no photos were taken, but as I knew you guys would like to check it out, I found Jason and he allowed me to take the photos. We had to hurry as he didn't want it to act as a green light for everyone to take photos of the archive.

The photos are through a glass cabinet and your not going to know that the VC is 100% from them.

I spoke to Jason and his partner about the piece. He told me that they were purchaced from someone who photographed toys.

I spent ages looking at the figure and comparing it to what I know from my MOC's and those other 12 backs. I have nothing to gain in it being real or not.

The card had a slight warp in it and a small crease in the top. Not enough to break the black paint on the card. I honestly can't find anything wrong with it.

I asked Jason friends who all said it was legit. I also asked collectors who also agreed that while they can't be 100% of a figure in a display cabinet, it did appear to be legit.

So there no AFA/UKG/SWFUK declaration that this is the palitoy holy grail that we've all waited for.

I can remember though that there was a time when the VC Jawa was only on the Kenner card. Now I know of 2 that have been found on Australian cards with a couple of loose.

I can't upload the photos from my phone so I'll have to wait till I get home.

Thanks for the 'Grants a stand up guy' comments. Always nice to hear.

I think Lee was partially right about my comments about 'staffie'. They were meant to be be humorous, but it seem to upset the mods as well, so maybe took it to far. The rest of the angry toy stuff is very poetic.

So photos up tonight. Don't get to excited, it's not a scientific experiment, I just did what I could, because I love you guys.

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Sorry for a newbie question guys and if the answer is obvious but why couldnt you take any pics? :?

 

[Grant_C]

They didn't want pictures of the stuff in the archive. My guess is that they didn't want repos of 1974 scripts being made from it. But I don't actually know.

 

[Josh]

This thread needs more tits until we get a pic of a Palitoy VC Jawa up. :lol: