Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Bramistuta25]

Just a theory, but this could be THE most calculated revenge scenario in history. What if Toni beat JJ to the MOCs and he's never forgiven him?

:shock: :?

 

[tiefighterboy]

Just a theory, but this could be THE most calculated revenge scenario in history. What if Toni beat JJ to the MOCs and he's never forgiven him?

:shock: :?

What if Joiner manufactured these to bring with him. No way some of these would pass AFA, UKG or Stevie wonder. The ultimate lie.

 

[jedisearcher]

Just a theory, but this could be THE most calculated revenge scenario in history. What if Toni beat JJ to the MOCs and he's never forgiven him?

:shock: :?

What if Joiner manufactured these to bring with him. No way some of these would pass AFA, UKG or Stevie wonder. The ultimate lie.

And add to this the fact that JJ was found selling a box of fetts and someone overheard (or misheard according to JJ) the story that there were more being produced ... Perhaps some did come from JJ.

Doesn't get us away from Toni's dodgy ebay account and silence though.

Just found an afa 90 3po on ebay being sold by timetosellsurplus with the exact same card issues Matthias posted earlier. Looks like the bubble seal fooled them without too much problem.

 

[Bramistuta25]

True, but I don't think you can question AFA and UKG to a degree as this was the accepted seal for these MOCs. Don't forget how long this is going back.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Maybe Toni and Joiner are both culprits and they killed Arthur. Now there is a huge fight over the remaining stock of unused cardbacks??? What is Joiners Ebay ID and does he have two? Maybe there is a contest between them to who is king of the con men.

 

[jedisearcher]

True, but I don't think you can question AFA and UKG to a degree as this was the accepted seal for these MOCs. Don't forget how long this is going back.

Yeah true. Check out the afa85 Fett that Brianstoys has for $999. Between the double stem at the bottom there looks to be a real issue with the bubble seal, really similar to the other heat sealed bubbles posted from today.

 

[Vernon]

These are a few I took at Fordingbridge. The others on the previous page are better.

Grant got me to take these. The first one is obviously a loose bubble from one of these cards. The others two are dodgy melted seals.

This photo shows something I noticed.
If you look at the glue marks they meet and make a right-angle a couple of mm away from the inside edge.
This is the same on my Bossk & TFP but not the Luke where the seal curves round with the bubble.

This can also been seen on the upside down HT purchased from JJ.

Is this right angle common?

Cheers,

 

[finestcomics]

These are a few I took at Fordingbridge. The others on the previous page are better.

Grant got me to take these. The first one is obviously a loose bubble from one of these cards. The others two are dodgy melted seals.

This photo shows something I noticed.
If you look at the glue marks they meet and make a right-angle a couple of mm away from the inside edge.
This is the same on my Bossk & TFP but not the Luke where the seal curves round with the bubble.

This can also been seen on the upside down HT purchased from JJ.

Is this right angle common?

Cheers,

If you're referring to the way the outer edge of the blister doesn't maintain a straight line, that does look odd. I'd imagine the heat sealing method isn't exacting, and that overexposing plastic of this type might cause the plastic to do some funny things.

 

[jambobbyb]

I am completely out of the collecting game for the time being. over the past couple of months I have finished renovating my house and moved in, sadly momey is incredibly tight at this point in time so I have been trying to avoid this place and all its plastic temptations as all my spare cash is going on crap like sofas and washing machines! about a year ago I nearly bought one of the Pali fetts Tomi had and I am so glad I didn't now, I have the upmost sympathy for anyone who has been caught up in this mess. I do wonder what afa and ukg's response is going to be.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Guys, while you're all debunking the cards JJ bought along that are obvious reseals, hardly anyone is mentioning Marttias and the latest solid proof that Toni's mocs are made from unused cardbacks. The pink dot that shows the unused cardback and minty mint MOCs came from the same stock. Have checked all 4 of my used cardbacks for 65d c3p0 removeable limbs and there is no pink dot present on any of them. And there is a pink dot on the one in my AFA 90 MOC run...

Discuss!



Jason

 

[tigerham]

Again I just wanted to apologise to all members as I meant no offense and thinking about it I realise that they were not immature remarks but just trying to keep the spirits high so to speak.

I'm sincerely sorry and will stay out of it.

I wish you all well. Xx

 

[skye]

I've finally uploaded some of the pictures of my Chewies that came from after 45B.

http://www.chivecast.com

(I'm not trying to promote the podcast, but that was the easiest place for me to upload the images quickly...though you really should listen to the podcast )

I can't really draw any conclusions from these things but I figure that some hi-res images might be useful for people to consider. Feel free to goof around with the images or repost them or whatever if you see anything.

 

[Captainsolo1978]

TT decided to profit by this.

Perhaps we should warn him not to underestimate our powers !

 

[Captainsolo1978]

One other thing. Someone earlier posted a photo of a German 45 back Han Solo with a footer from TT.

I thought Palitoy didn't use footers after 45 b backs. Am I right ?

 

[spoons]

Guys, while you're all debunking the cards JJ bought along that are obvious reseals, hardly anyone is mentioning Marttias and the latest solid proof that Toni's mocs are made from unused cardbacks. The pink dot that shows the unused cardback and minty mint MOCs came from the same stock. Have checked all 4 of my used cardbacks for 65d c3p0 removeable limbs and there is no pink dot present on any of them. And there is a pink dot on the one in my AFA 90 MOC run...

Discuss!



Jason

In my mind there is no issue regarding whether or not there are a ton of recards out there, and Mattias' observations are the nail in the coffin.

I also think Toni is behind it but again as devils advocate did he perfect the technique? Or potentially buy them that way?

A long shot I know, but as Chico pointed out these crap seals appeared from nowhere

 

[spoons]

These are a few I took at Fordingbridge. The others on the previous page are better.

Grant got me to take these. The first one is obviously a loose bubble from one of these cards. The others two are dodgy melted seals.

This photo shows something I noticed.
If you look at the glue marks they meet and make a right-angle a couple of mm away from the inside edge.
This is the same on my Bossk & TFP but not the Luke where the seal curves round with the bubble.

This can also been seen on the upside down HT purchased from JJ.

Is this right angle common?

Cheers,

I just checked a few of mine, and they do tend to fall into two types. The key is a waffle sealed ROTJ Kenner AT-ST driver also has a right angled seal, although the gap is larger than these

Although is your angles on only one side? If so that is odd

 

[bobbybobs]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but if Toni's seals passed AFA/UKG scrutiny then doesn't it mean that other reseals may also have been undetected? I mean all they would need is an original card, bubble, figure and then use a similar heat resealing method to Toni.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

 

[JuniorChubb]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but if Toni's seals passed AFA/UKG scrutiny then doesn't it mean that other reseals may also have been undetected? I mean all they would need is an original card, bubble, figure and then use a similar heat resealing method to Toni.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

Before this 'reseal' meant taking an opened card and resealing it to its original bubble, or maybe a replacement bubble, an easy to spot operation for the layman, let alone the graders.

Now its a little bit different as the cardbacks and bubbles are previously unused, making detection more difficult when done correctly. I would guess you are right though, if the ingredients have been available, others may have pulled the same trick.

I think the term 'reseal' can confuse the issue, these had never been sealed in the first place.

 

[bobbybobs]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but if Toni's seals passed AFA/UKG scrutiny then doesn't it mean that other reseals may also have been undetected? I mean all they would need is an original card, bubble, figure and then use a similar heat resealing method to Toni.

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

Before this 'reseal' meant taking an opened card and resealing it to its original bubble, or maybe a replacement bubble, an easy to spot operation for the layman, let alone the graders.

Now its a little bit different as the cardbacks and bubbles are previously unused, making detection more difficult when done correctly. I would guess you are right though, if the ingredients have been available, others may have pulled the same trick.

I think the term 'reseal' can confuse the issue, these had never been sealed in the first place.

Yep very good point. They must be much harder to detect. I think I need to stop using 'reseal' when it comes to Toni's MOCs.

 

[Chico]

A quick suggestion... as this thread shows no sign of slowing down. Would it make sense to start a new thread to act as a resource as a lot of good content is going to get lost in amongst all the sleuthing

I was thinking it would be useful for this thread to contain:
1) A short overview of the situation
2) The cardbacks we believe are affected (GM, Palitoy, 45 bks onwards etc)
3) Bubble types / issues
4) Seal issues to look for (pressure 'wave' being applied, smudged glue etc)
5) Other signs such as the pink dot etc.

Sooner or later someone is going to innocently try and sell (or buy) one of the affected cards on this forum and it would be extremely useful to have a concise overview of the issue to direct them to rather than ask them to follow this monster thread. I'm happy to contribute pictures of my own Toni MOC's but i think this should be put together by someone (or preferably a group) far more qualified than me. (e.g. I don't know the difference between a 45 and 45b bk!)

It might also help us piece together just how far this rabbit hole goes!

Going back to the dodgy seals brought to FF. The more i think about it the less i believe that these came from Toni, and if they did certainly don't believe they were sold as original. His fault is that his cards are almost too perfect, it just isn't his style and more importantly the SW collecting community is very tight, word spreads fast and mud sticks. There is no way he would have been able to build a reputation or pull of a 'giant warehouse find' if collectors thought his stuff was remotely dodgy.