Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[mr_palitoy]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

 

[spoons]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

Exactly what I'm saying - and although the GM cards aren't relevant to your website they are relevant to this argument as it seems a fair bet that both would have the same bubbles if they were from the same factory

The sticker tear shows best in acrylic and the bubble is a GM seal

This Bossk has had two previous owners and is apparently not linked to Toni

It's featured a few times here and Wolff didn't like the bubble placement

 

[jay4]

I say we write to the BBC and get Dominic Littlewood like someone suggested. It's not an everyday occurrance. And be careful what you post as everyone including TT will be reading this.

i mentioned this on here weeks ago and i think people dispelled it as stupidity but i actually meant it,
imagine the scene dom stopping mr resealchowitz closing his car door trying to get way by standing in front of it with a camera in his face spouting the allegations made and could he explain :?: it would make for great tv for us thats for sure 8) .
now we all seen how interested in vtg starwars the bbc and itv went with that vectis vinyl jawa moc it was on tv several times so ive no doubt they would consider there possibly being a story enough here to involve " THE DOM" inator

 

[mr_palitoy]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

Exactly what I'm saying - and although the GM cards aren't relevant to your website they are relevant to this argument as it seems a fair bet that both would have the same bubbles if they were from the same factory

The sticker tear shows best in acrylic and the bubble is a GM seal

This Bossk has had two previous owners and is apparently not linked to Toni

It's featured a few times here and Wolff didn't like the bubble placement

So that is a German card? Not relevant for my palitoy guide if it is.

cheers Jason

 

[spoons]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

Exactly what I'm saying - and although the GM cards aren't relevant to your website they are relevant to this argument as it seems a fair bet that both would have the same bubbles if they were from the same factory

The sticker tear shows best in acrylic and the bubble is a GM seal

This Bossk has had two previous owners and is apparently not linked to Toni

It's featured a few times here and Wolff didn't like the bubble placement

So that is a German card? Not relevant for my palitoy guide if it is.

cheers Jason

No, it's a 45b English card

 

[mr_palitoy]

That looks like a dead mint card that wasnt shop sold, so could be a Toni.

You say it has previous owners who say it is apparently not linked to Toni.

That's not enough for me to go on. I'd want to see a card with evidence of being shop sold.

cheers Jason

 

[panastur]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

Here is a genuine Palitoy ESB 45 back "B" TIE Fighter Pilot cardback with "Single Stem" bubble. Also, you can clearly see the "13" marking on the card.

JC

 

[mr_palitoy]

German cardback bubble types not relevant for my palitoy guide, despite being made in the same factory.

The ESB 45b page is about Palitoy cards, not german cards, so the fact that single stemmed bubbles are on german cards is not
relevant for that page, and my guide,

If you have examples on palitoy cards, that i would be interested in seeing.

cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

Here is a genuine Palitoy ESB 45 back "B" TIE Fighter Pilot cardback with "Single Stem" bubble. Also, you can clearly see the "13" marking on the card.

JC

Those single stem bubbles with numbers in the corner are different to the single stem bubbles Toni used.

Are there any MOC examples of those on Palitoy 45b?

cheers Jason

 

[panastur]

Those single stem bubbles with numbers in the corner are different to the single stem bubbles Toni used.

Are there any MOC examples of those on Palitoy 45b?

cheers Jason

All Toni's "Single Stem" MOCs are unmarket as their are clearly repro bubbles....

Found this one on the net with a "03" bubble.

JC :?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Those single stem bubbles with numbers in the corner are different to the single stem bubbles Toni used.

Are there any MOC examples of those on Palitoy 45b?

cheers Jason

All Toni's "Single Stem" MOCs are unmarket as their are clearly repro bubbles....

Found this one on the net with a "03" bubble.

JC :?

That's the one I put on my guide and think is a Toni now. Are saying you think that is genuine? Bubble seal looks very weak to me.
It's dead mint, not shop sold, etc.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

For Palitoy ESB 45b Toni had a stack of unused cards for Bossk, Imperial Fighter Pilot and Chewbacca.

So far, the only single stemmed bubble examples that are being quoted, are for these 3 figures.

Are there any non Toni figure/cards that have single stemmed bubbles for esb 45b?

cheers Jason

 

[spoons]

That looks like a dead mint card that wasnt shop sold, so could be a Toni.

You say it has previous owners who say it is apparently not linked to Toni.

That's not enough for me to go on. I'd want to see a card with evidence of being shop sold.

cheers Jason

We're going round in circles here Jason - there is a small sticker tear and most importantly the seal is identical to genuine German cards, therefore not a Toni :roll:

and also a big reason not to state categorically that all 45bs are double stemmed

If someone can show a genuine Toni with a waffle seal and numbered bubble I'll be happy to concede the point.

 

[mr_palitoy]

That looks like a dead mint card that wasnt shop sold, so could be a Toni.

You say it has previous owners who say it is apparently not linked to Toni.

That's not enough for me to go on. I'd want to see a card with evidence of being shop sold.

cheers Jason

We're going round in circles here Jason - there is a small sticker tear and most importantly the seal is identical to genuine German cards, therefore not a Toni :roll:

and also a big reason not to state categorically that all 45bs are double stemmed

If someone can show a genuine Toni with a waffle seal and numbered bubble I'll be happy to concede the point.

I havent stated categorically that all 45b's are double stemmed.

Where is the price ticker tear? What card? I can't see one.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

You also talk about waffle seals. Again, please provide examples.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

Been thinking about this Kenner 03 bubble and waffle patterns being a sign that a card is genuine.

Toni or someone in the business of assembling these cards had a stack of kenner 03 bubbles, most
of which were used in the upside bubble hoth trooper fiasco.

So Toni got Kenner 03 bubbles that he has been sticking on the odd card/figure combo or two.

The esb 45b imperial tie fighter pilot with the single stem bubble that I think is Toni's is one of these Kenner 03 bubbles.

This card show all the tell tale signs of a weakly attached bubbles that I see on my own cards.

The waffle pattern is not produced by the sealing machine, it's how the glue is spread on the back of thge bubble.
The glue on the bubbles is heat activated, and in the case of Kenner 03 bubbles is spread in a manner which
produces the waffle pattern when heated.

The reason the bubbles are dropping off Tonis cards is that he is using bubbles with glue past their sell by date.

This could also explain strange one off's like Grant's 45c Luke:-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1083375/

So I would say Palitoy unused card + Kenner 03 buble = Toni

Sad conclusion, but there you go.



Jason

 

[panastur]

You also talk about waffle seals. Again, please provide examples.

cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

I have a Han Solo Original on Palitoy 45 back(B) "Single Stem" bubble where a "Horizontal thin lines" pattern is visible. I will provide pictures later because it's in my storage now, but i checked it the last time i was there and the pattern was clearly visible.

Also, the "Single Stem" marked bubble was widely used on Palitoy 45"B" cards... I use to have vintage cardbacks with "Single Stem" bubbles marks for:

Darth Vader
Chewbacca
Han Solo "04"
Death Star Droid "02"
C-3PO RL "015"
AT-AT Commander "03" & "01"
R2-D2 Sensorscope "12"
BSG black "01"
TIE Fighter Pilot "13"
CCP "02"
Luke Skywalker Hoth "03"
4-LOM

Again, they are all Palitoy 45 back "B" cardbacks...

JC :roll:

 

[Grant_C]

:evil:

Any body have a break down of this, Dom's agent sounded interested.

Do you think we should go to the press?

Never **** with a mans Luke Farmboy! :evil:

 

[panastur]

So Toni got Kenner 03 bubbles that he has been sticking on the odd card/figure combo or two.

I totally agree with you. Toni got unused single stem 03 bubbles. There's no doubt on it.... but he made the mistake to seal these bubble from the front and not from the rear as it was done in the factory. The result of Toni's 03 bubble seal is a flatten "03" mark like it was smashed with the seal process. The Toni 03 mark looks flat and it's not as bulgy as the genuine 03 marks...

The esb 45b imperial tie fighter pilot with the single stem bubble that I think is Toni's is one of these Kenner 03 bubbles.

This card show all the tell tale signs of a weakly attached bubbles that I see on my own cards.

Agree with you. The 03 mark looks totally flat as it was smashed from the front... Also, no pattren is visible.

The waffle pattern is not produced by the sealing machine, it's how the glue is spread on the back of thge bubble.
The glue on the bubbles is heat activated, and in the case of Kenner 03 bubbles is spread in a manner which
produces the waffle pattern when heated.

I disagree here Jason. There's no glue involved in the genuine/vintage seal process....

It's a varnish coat applied on the front card that is heat activated. That's the reason, generally, cardbacks are shiny on the front and not on the back.
The bubble use to melt with the varnish coat under heat and pressure.

These varnish coat were already applied at the printshop...

JC

 

[plantman]

yes i think you should, but first like you say get a good documented breakdown, but in a simple format so whoever you show it can see the evidence clearly.

 

[lee gray]

I am hearing that Toni seals are weak, I have not heard of this before.
Have any afa 90 carded figures that are suspicious had the bubble fallen of or has someone just tried ripping of the bubble to see how easy it is as a test ?
The action force bubble seals are really weak, i saw a tiny corner gap in my baron ironbloods bubble and stuck a piece of paper inside the gap and started moving it and the who bubble just came off.