Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[jasdev999]

I am sure Toni is assessing the situation /threads to see how the public opinion is before he responds....it does not look good for him right now on here, TIG or RS.

Is there no way to tell if he logs on to SWFUK (by the moderators?) and reads various threads?

 

[jedisearcher]

What I still don't get is the lack of response from Toni regarding all of this - if there is any untruth at all then why remain silent, why remove these figures from your website and why not threaten legal action against those who are clearly stating that you have committed large scale fraud?

The lack of response is bad, but people shouldn't forget the 2nd ebay account which is the biggest piece of evidence for me. That can't be explained away and even if he did sell loads of MOCS (which I believe he did), it's just too big a coincidence that he's somehow buying up mint loosies for some other purpose than modern sealing them himself.

 

[lee gray]

Hey guys,

Just a FYI.

Spoke to a dealer today who was offered the same deal from Arthur Bailey about "20-25 years ago for £15,000".

The dealer doesn't want to come forward as he doesn't want to be caught up in a legal case etc.

He said that the deal was offered to him and he went away for a week to think about it, and when he returned to buy it they had all been sold.

He said that there were approximately 100-200 cardbacks and loose bubbles- but there was also boxes and boxes of Factory Fresh kenner and palitoy MOCs.

He said that its one persons word against another.

I know there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise, but it does match what's been said by other dealers of the time especially those that used to have classifieds in model mart.

To be honest with you I think anyone paying that amount of money for something would have to have the bulk of the items being boxed or already carded as no one would pay that amount if the majority was cardbacks and bubbles when theres no way to know if you would even be able to attach them and could end up with unusable stock and out of big bucks

I did defend Toni at first but really as most people have said its his silence that has caused more damage than JJ acusations and the list.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Repost from finwatcomics on rebelscum:-

Stephen Ward has contacted me and has requested I share the following message:

On UKG returning to work at the beginning of January, I contacted AFA with regards speaking with Chad Thompson to see if UKG and AFA could work together with regards sharing information on the current situation, I am yet to receive a response from AFA.

Having searched through our records it is apparent that UKG has only ever received 1 direct order from himself for grading which consisted of 15 carded figures which was a mixed lot of Kenner,Meccano and Palitoy.

After careful consideration, until there is some form of response from Toy Toni or his legal representatives with regards to the allegations against him which are contrary to the Star Wars community views and opinions, UKG will no longer accept direct orders from Toy Toni.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Repost from finwatcomics on rebelscum:-

Stephen Ward has contacted me and has requested I share the following message:

On UKG returning to work at the beginning of January, I contacted AFA with regards speaking with Chad Thompson to see if UKG and AFA could work together with regards sharing information on the current situation, I am yet to receive a response from AFA.

Having searched through our records it is apparent that UKG has only ever received 1 direct order from himself for grading which consisted of 15 carded figures which was a mixed lot of Kenner,Meccano and Palitoy.

After careful consideration, until there is some form of response from Toy Toni or his legal representatives with regards to the allegations against him which are contrary to the Star Wars community views and opinions, UKG will no longer accept direct orders from Toy Toni.

Another red card for Emchowicz!



Jason

 

[pizzathehutt]

so has some of toni's recards gotten past the experts at afa and ukg then, bit embarassing for them no?

 

[mr_palitoy]

so has some of toni's recards gotten past the experts at afa and ukg then, bit embarassing for them no?

Ermm, just a few. A thousand odd at AFA and a few hundred at UKG I would guestimate.

cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

UKG need to improve access to their grading data. No population report and you dont even get a date of grading when you type in a UKG serial number for verification.

cheers Jason

 

[ironfist]

Hi, Wolff, here you are the pics you asked me. I'm sorry, but this is the best I can do, as the blister is inside an acrylic tomb...

Let me tell the rest of the people here the story of this piece...

I bought it just half a year and it comes from the greatest graded vintage blister collector here in Spain. When this Toni affair came up to the light I asked him about the origin of this piece and he told me that he had bought it from Ron Wallace. Some weeks ago I contacted Ron Wallace and he told me he had purchased it from Mike Enders... I'm still trying to find out who was the original owner of this piece. According to the Spanish collector I bought it from, this Luke was one of the pieces that were sent from the UK to the States for purposes of quality control (at least this is what Wallace told him when they made the transaction)...

Any comment would be really appreciated...

LUKE ROTJ PALITOY 45C AFA90

In a short while I'll be posting pics of another 6 TT blisters.

 

[jimbody1]

so has some of toni's recards gotten past the experts at afa and ukg then, bit embarassing for them no?

As has been said before, if Toni has been doing this then all they would've had to go on as what they've seen in comparison to other non palitoy and gm stuff, speaking from personal experience ive had stuff from Toni that looked exactly the same as other mocs that have plainly come from other sources like shops, ive even had cracked and yellow bubbles from him on gm mocs (r2) flecked cards (with no flecking under the seal or inside the bubble ) and so on.

 

[Grant_C]

Exactly.

what's the difference between a Palitoy factory seal and the alleged Toytoni seal?

Apparently they are exactly the same :?

 

[jedisearcher]

Not sure if I read some of the earlier posts about JJ's list correctly, and that the cards mentioned might have been MOC's, rather than cardbacks?

But if that was the implication, if you read the first bit under the list it says:

In addition: there are approx two hundred misc loose figures for which no cards are available, including 50 greedo (most complete with weapons).

To me that confirms they were cardbacks, not MOC's. You wouldn't word it that way otherwise. Arthur clearly calls cardbacks 'cards'.

I bet every dealer who came upon Arthur Baileys joblot discussed how on earth they were going to maximise their investment by getting them sealed up again.

 

[ironfist]

Now I'm posting pics of 6 figures that Dark Sith Lord asked me.

1) HAN HOTH ROTJ PALITOY 65D

I think this one could be legit. The bubble is slightly yellowed. The card is warped, has creases and some scuffing to the back. The pressure marks on the back of the card are more than evident. I think the seal is different if I compare it to the rest of the seals of Toni. I'm not sure. What do you think?

 

[ironfist]

Please, remember I'm just trying to help... I posted my list of TT blisters some pages ago and a couple of collectors asked me to post some pics, and that's just what I'm trying to do... If you think I'm flooding this
thread with pics, just let me know and I won't post any other...

2.- IMPERIAL STORMTROOPER PALITOY ROTJ 65D

3.- POWER DROID ESB GM

4.- STORMTROOPER ESB GM

 

[jambobbyb]

Maybe some of these are good, No one has ever said everything Toni sold was bad, But we are spit balling here and we could keep going at it for another 1000 pages and never get anywhere, The only person who knows the right answer is Toni and he aint speaking which to me kinda shows he his guilty of something but god knows what or how deep this actually goes.

 

[spoons]

Exactly.

what's the difference between a Palitoy factory seal and the alleged Toytoni seal?

Apparently they are exactly the same :?

I think this is where AFA and UKG have missed a trick because they are not exactly the same

There are loads of different seals for the same cards and figures, which should have raised alarm bells before now.

Ironfists photos show this nicely.

The Luke has a 'Toni' seal - a thin 'Toni' band around the bubble edge, whilst the Han has a seal that goes to the edge of the bubble - legit in my eyes. Although on second look, the Luke has a thin seal only on one side - so could be good?

My Stormtrooper on ebay also has the thin seal

The Hoth Trooper has a full seal and I'd be inclined to say its legit, but the bubble is centrally placed and I'm sure others will disagree, but I'm also sure that not all Toni seals are the same - so 50/50 on that one

A real mess

I'm sure that most of the graded examples are legit but where seals like the Luke are present AFA should have questioned things earlier.

 

[jedisearcher]

Ironfist,

I think the Han is ok - at the bottom of the bubble its not sealed where the twin stems would be. That implies machine sealed rather than otherwise to me.

Not sure on the Hothtrooper, no tells I could see.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Han hoth looks ok, the rest are Tonis. That Hothrooper has air bubbles in it in the bubble seal, are sure sign of a Toni.

cheers Jason

 

[Palifan]

Hey guys,

Just a FYI.

Spoke to a dealer today who was offered the same deal from Arthur Bailey about "20-25 years ago for £15,000".

The dealer doesn't want to come forward as he doesn't want to be caught up in a legal case etc.

He said that the deal was offered to him and he went away for a week to think about it, and when he returned to buy it they had all been sold.

He said that there were approximately 100-200 cardbacks and loose bubbles- but there was also boxes and boxes of Factory Fresh kenner and palitoy MOCs.

He said that its one persons word against another.

I know there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise, but it does match what's been said by other dealers of the time especially those that used to have classifieds in model mart.

So what do people think about this?

It seems like this dealer is saying there weren't many card backs up for sale in this lot and the majority were MOC ( which is what I'd expect for the money that apparently changed hands at the time although as we haven't seen the list of MOC offered in JJ's list it's hard to know how many MOC there were).

If this information has come from a trusted dealer then should it be considered carefully? Of course TT's silence really isn't helping and with the second ebay account and him talking about leaving the country it all seems very suspicious.

Ian

 

[spoons]

Han hoth looks ok, the rest are Tonis. That Hothrooper has air bubbles in it in the bubble seal, are sure sign of a Toni.

cheers Jason

Despite my ramblings above - I'm agree with Jason