Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Caswellbot]

Hi Fernando, good to see you post on here and hopefully the photos of your carded figures from Toni may help with the investigation. I'm.glad to hear you have got in touch wich Jason. I hope that a few mire of your mocs turn out to be legit.

All the best, Chris.

 

[Richard_H]

Is it time now for someone to open one of these suspect cards? Search for fingerprints, dirt... anything? Perhaps you'd be able to see better evidence of the seal.

 

[edd_jedi]

Is it time now for someone to open one of these suspect cards? Search for fingerprints, dirt... anything? Perhaps you'd be able to see better evidence of the seal.

It would be a great idea to look for finger prints if anybody had Toni's to compare it to! :lol: But with regard to unidentified prints, dirt, rubs etc, that's a waste of time as we all know genuine sealed figures are usually far from perfect. I've certainly seen finger prints on tape holding weapons inside Kenner bubbles before.

 

[kraftdermacht]

Hi, again this is how the community will learn about all this. Thanks "spoonsnorton".

Ebay: Vintage Star Wars AFA 80 graded Stormtrooper - made to order Palitoy/GM 45 £1,000.00
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-S...per-made-to-order-Palitoy-GM-45-/191033688192

Cheers
Wolfgang

 

[edd_jedi]

The more people that watch these auctions on eBay the better - eBay often orders items by most watchers.

 

[spoons]

Hi, again this is how the community will learn about all this. Thanks "spoonsnorton".

Ebay: Vintage Star Wars AFA 80 graded Stormtrooper - made to order Palitoy/GM 45 £1,000.00
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-S...per-made-to-order-Palitoy-GM-45-/191033688192

Cheers
Wolfgang

No problem :mrgreen:

 

[Grant_C]

Hey guys,

Just a FYI.

Spoke to a dealer today who was offered the same deal from Arthur Bailey about "20-25 years ago for £15,000".

The dealer doesn't want to come forward as he doesn't want to be caught up in a legal case etc.

He said that the deal was offered to him and he went away for a week to think about it, and when he returned to buy it they had all been sold.

He said that there were approximately 100-200 cardbacks and loose bubbles- but there was also boxes and boxes of Factory Fresh kenner and palitoy MOCs.

He said that its one persons word against another.

I know there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise, but it does match what's been said by other dealers of the time especially those that used to have classifieds in model mart.

 

[spoons]

interesting Grant - but how does the list fit in? Are these to be assumed carded examples?

 

[Grant_C]

To be honest mate- I'm thinking JJ's list is partial or incomplete.

 

[ironfist]

I'd like to see the missing pages of the J. Joiner list. I'm just curious...

I'll be posting here some pics of my TOC in a while, as a couple of guys have contacted me. I hope they may help in some way...

 

[finestcomics]

I updated the open letter thread with a response from Stephen Ward

 

[Grant_C]

Well spoke to Steve earlier, I think UKG are doing the best they can under the present circumstances.

 

[Grant]

Hey guys,

Just a FYI.

Spoke to a dealer today who was offered the same deal from Arthur Bailey about "20-25 years ago for £15,000".

The dealer doesn't want to come forward as he doesn't want to be caught up in a legal case etc.

He said that the deal was offered to him and he went away for a week to think about it, and when he returned to buy it they had all been sold.

He said that there were approximately 100-200 cardbacks and loose bubbles- but there was also boxes and boxes of Factory Fresh kenner and palitoy MOCs.

He said that its one persons word against another.

I know there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise, but it does match what's been said by other dealers of the time especially those that used to have classifieds in model mart.

Just out of curiosity, Do you think if there was just 100-200 unused card backs and bubbles AND boxes of MOC's that *maybe* lots of these so called Toni MOC's might be all legit and just *maybe* only some are suspect. I thought when JJ put up the list that all of those carded were just unused card backs and not MOC's. Maybe Iv got my wires crossed here, again just curious.

Regards

Grant.

 

[Grant_C]

He was 100% convinced that there was 100-200 cardbacks with bubbles with loose figures.

He said there was 1000's of factory fresh MOCs.

His reaction to the accusation was "bullshit!".

Not a fan of Joiner either.

 

[finestcomics]

Well spoke to Steve earlier, I think UKG are doing the best they can under the present circumstances.

I agree. Chad returned one of my calls last Friday and we discussed the situation. I do think AFA and UKG mean well. I think Chad better understands my reasoning for getting them to respond to the requests I made, and really it can't be overstated that while they are running businesses with bottom lines, they do want to stop scammers in their tracks just as much as we do.

 

[finestcomics]

He was 100% convinced that there was 100-200 cardbacks with bubbles with loose figures.

He said there was 1000's of factory fresh MOCs.

His reaction to the accusation was "bullshit!".

Not a fan of Joiner either.

This is not the first dissident voice I have heard since the allegations surfaced, and another reason I was asking for something in writing from Joiner.

 

[Grant_C]

Hey guys,

Just a FYI.

Spoke to a dealer today who was offered the same deal from Arthur Bailey about "20-25 years ago for £15,000".

The dealer doesn't want to come forward as he doesn't want to be caught up in a legal case etc.

He said that the deal was offered to him and he went away for a week to think about it, and when he returned to buy it they had all been sold.

He said that there were approximately 100-200 cardbacks and loose bubbles- but there was also boxes and boxes of Factory Fresh kenner and palitoy MOCs.

He said that its one persons word against another.

I know there's a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise, but it does match what's been said by other dealers of the time especially those that used to have classifieds in model mart.

Just out of curiosity, Do you think if there was just 100-200 unused card backs and bubbles AND boxes of MOC's that *maybe* lots of these so called Toni MOC's might be all legit and just *maybe* only some are suspect. I thought when JJ put up the list that all of those carded were just unused card backs and not MOC's. Maybe Iv got my wires crossed here, again just curious.

Regards

Grant.

I definatly would not be off loading any Toni MOCs at this point.

The only people who seem to make a counter claim to JJ were actually around at the time. :?

 

[Grant]

He was 100% convinced that there was 100-200 cardbacks with bubbles with loose figures.

He said there was 1000's of factory fresh MOCs.

His reaction to the accusation was "bullshit!".

Not a fan of Joiner either.

Cool, I wonder what direction this will all take now *if* lots of these so called Toni's were actually legit MOC's and not so suspect. I know there'd still be the massive issue of the 100-200 unused card backs but if I'm picking this up correctly hasn't it been mentioned already that Toni sold of batchs of unused card backs in the past.

If this was the case then I wonder if anyone could actually prove that he cobbled together *any* MOC's at all. I know there is quite a few unused Pailtoy card backs out there in the wild, so possibly these all originated from Toni. It would make for an amazing result for everyone if all of the MOC's turned out to be legit, especially when you look at just Ironfists list of MOC's that are deemed as suspect until proven otherwise. Bloody shame for everyone involved. Again just curiosity on my behalf after reading through a few pages today.

Regards

Grant.

PS Apart from what *seems* to be iron marks on a few cards AND the 500 carded Fetts that JJ said he once owned does this possibly mean that just the Fetts could be bad ?, again I may just have my wires crossed here.

 

[Grant_C]

I heard from different people that included in that batch was over 1000 boba fetts MOCs.

When it comes to bubble variations. We are talking about a closing factory. Where get rid of product would take president over 'only use type 2 bubble' etc.

Why are seals the same as the factory seals and no one can tell the difference? Fooled everyone? Or was there a batch of cardbacks that have been sold which have tarnished the real stock?

Just keep an open mind I think.

 

[spoons]

He was 100% convinced that there was 100-200 cardbacks with bubbles with loose figures.

He said there was 1000's of factory fresh MOCs.

His reaction to the accusation was "bullshit!".

Not a fan of Joiner either.

Cool, I wonder what direction this will all take now *if* lots of these so called Toni's were actually legit MOC's and not so suspect. I know there'd still be the massive issue of the 100-200 unused card backs but if I'm picking this up correctly hasn't it been mentioned already that Toni sold of batchs of unused card backs in the past.

If this was the case then I wonder if anyone could actually prove that he cobbled together *any* MOC's at all. I know there is quite a few unused Pailtoy card backs out there in the wild, so possibly these all originated from Toni. It would make for an amazing result for everyone if all of the MOC's turned out to be legit, especially when you look at just Ironfists list of MOC's that are deemed as suspect until proven otherwise. Bloody shame for everyone involved. Again just curiosity on my behalf after reading through a few pages today.

Regards

Grant.

PS Apart from what *seems* to be iron marks on a few cards AND the 500 carded Fetts that JJ said he once owned does this possibly mean that just the Fetts could be bad ?, again I may just have my wires crossed here.

That's the problem in a nutshell Grant. So far the only definite fakes have ironed on bubbles (Fetts and Hoth Troopers mostly), which cant be tied to Toni. The C3POs and the thin or dimpled bubbles are all suspect, but this is based purely on Toni's silence and ebay acitivity.

I'm certain that there are not 1000s of fakes, but even a couple of 100 fakes makes it harder to spot the real deal as everything is considered dodgy.