our nhs is ****ed! panorama bbc1 03/10/12

[poncho]

just watched panorama about the state of the nhs when it comes to foreigners, our nhs is bleeded money right left and centre treating them free of charge no wonder our system is ****ed this then leads to horrible snowball effect where money that is being wasted on free treatment on foreigners where should be put to better use like doctor trainingm research, development, new equipment .

imo what we should do is : to be eligible for free nhs treatment you should be living in the uk for a least 3 years and be employed simple!, but of course if your really ill or a&e victim then fair enough it should be free.

my rant is over :lol: glad my money paid on national insurance is being well spent hey! :x
i blame the goverment and healt minister!

 

[weasel]

EVERY Government, in every country, EVER is TERRIBLE at spending money.

That's why I work on the simple principle of 'if you're so **** at spending it, take less and let people spend it for themselves!'

 

[plantman]

yep its a ll a pile of crap, if your foreign, cant be arsed to work or learn english, want a free home and food and free NHS come here!

but we make pensioners who fought in the war suffer, even when they have paid NI all their lives.

the country is a joke

if you are accepted into this country you should be FORCED to learn english and sent out with the council to clean streets and graffiti, then you get paid, and integrate into the community.

same with all the other deadbeats we have here.

 

[edd_jedi]

Basically it's every man for himself, despite what the government want you to think. I try to live my life with the mentality that despite paying tax, the government owes me nothing. That way I won't be disappointed. I'm going to save my own 'pension', have health insurance through work, avoid public transport at all costs etc. It saves me from being disappointed, if a little sour that I give the cunts about half my salary through various taxes for absolutely nothing.

 

[plantman]

I remember watching a TV documentary about corrupt government, we had a UK person in power who was winning over the public with no taxes for twats, no immigration unless they were actuallly in danger or could contribute ect.

The Queen and parliment intervened secretly and forced him out of power because basically the people were becoming stronger than the politicians

Cant remember who it was now! but basically if you went for primeminister job and actually gave the people what they wanted you would either be forced out or go "missing" or have an "accident"

it was an undercover report.

 

[itfciain]

Thing is, it is easy to be a party in opposition because you can say what you want becuase you don't actually have to do it. The Liberals have been making hay with that for a long time.

When you do get into power it is about playing the game. You have to give into certain areas of society in order to get funding/support for other projects. You will also never please all of the people all of the time. Hence we have political parties that align themselves to sections of the community - how many strikes did we see under Labour - not many because they increased public spending becuase generally that is what they do in power. Trouble is, the money has to come from somewhere !

 

[Grant_C]

I think its because we have a false economy built on perpetual growth that is unsustaiable. Its shows by having subsides for everything.

The formula doesn't work. Are exports are low. Our growth is dependant on a financial banking system that was deregulated and went to ****. Our cost for standard of living is way to high.

I don't think you can blame the government, but you can blame sections of the political parties. Privatisation does'nt seem to work either as they will increase profit by short cutting costs.

I think a clever tax system needs to be created that will lead to more employment in the UK and we need to borrow/steal Germany and Frances social/health and economic models.

 

[Grant_C]

Another thing-

Look at corperate tax.

So many of the major corperations that are based in the UK don't pay tax and if they did, our NHS would have all the funds it needed.

I don't and will not shop in Tesco. They have multiple offshore accounts in the Cayman Islands. They should be paying millions into our tax system.

Why don't they pay it? Loop holes inthe law and a coruption in the government. Check the rise of Tesco and New Labour in the mid-90's. It was a revolving door for senior management at Tesco and Blair opened all routes for them. Its something that would well worth being researched.

Tax loopholes and offshore accounts is national treason. Don't buy their products.

 

[itfciain]

Tax loopholes and offshore accounts is national treason. Don't buy their products.

100% agree - but the problem is two-fold. Firstly, going back to what I said earlier, to get into government you need to do deals with the devil (or Tescos) so that you have the support and funding. There has never been and never will be a successful politican that has not comprimised his/her views for the greater good.

The second issue involving boycotting their products is that money speaks - we were discussing this the other weekend re. small shops - everyone would like to support them but in reality we all spend considerable amounts of money with the big stores because they are cheaper, easier to access and have such a wide range of items.

 

[Grant_C]

Good points.

Markets can be cheap and source there goods locally which keeps wealth locally.

I dont agree 100% that supermarkets have a wider range, they have the same type of commodity packaged 20 different ways.

I'll use the example of strawberrys. There are over 100 differnt types of strawberry but supermarkets only market a few. Why? Because they have the longest life span on the shelf. Once again cutting cost. There are much taster berry types that they wont stock. This example is across the board.

Also supermarket quality is the shits unless you pay for their premium lables. I get meat from a local farm. The differnce is massive. Supermarkets will strip meats and divide the quality of the meat. They will also inject the meat with large quanitys of water to add weight. Thats why when you cook bacon, the pan is full of water. Farm/market meat doesn't contain water.

They also force farmers to produce certain goods with a trade discription. If the farmers goods don't meet that description the goods aren't paid for and have to be destroyed. Talking bruises/green tomatoes etc. In europe they will use everything. Unripe tomatoes are used in food because of their unique taste. So i think the varity is an illusion.

As for ease. TOTALLY! everything under one roof. But maybe that ease had made us lazy when looking for our quality of foods. Personally I find it more exciting to buy product from someone I know who can tell me about it. I guess we are all so busy these days just getting through the day that the comfort of being able to have a invested interest in food has been marginalised because we don't have the time.

Supermarkets are culture killers as well. 3 generations of butchers closes because a supermarket has opened. That butchers shop gave the area culture and knowlege that cant be priced. There is also a an element of personal pride being a cornor stone of a community. When that butchers closes, these people now work for a machine. The humanity is greatly reduced having lost your business and now working for a monopoly.

Maybe supermarkets are cheaper in large towns and cities though. Must be difficult to transport goods, where the monopolys have bulk transport systems. This would be much easy to conduct in rural areas.

Also- supermarkets might have better or easier transport and network connections for foreign goods like bananas. Maybe these would be a lot cheaper?

Got to get off my soap box. Been having problems with my soap box recently........sorry.

Back to NHS. Maybe the politians need to stand to one side and we need a democratic technocracy to run specialist areas like health and education?

 

[itfciain]

I agree with you about supermarkets and in terms of the wider ranger - really meant in terms of products (electrical, clothes, food, alcohol etc.) rather than range of different types of a certain product - they are very much along the lines of the original Ford Model T - you can have any colour you want as long as it is black

With regards to the NHS - how does this democratic technocracy work - voter apathy is already at an all-time low - how would you persuade people to elect yet another bunch of people - and what would the cost be?

I actually think we should be proud of NHS, and perversely, if people are flocking from all over the world to use it then it must be pretty good!

In this country we are too quick to do down our achievements and focus on the negative. The recent Olympics are a prime example of this. I'm not a fan of all that the current government are doing but think they have actually made some pretty decent advances in the past year or so - our debt is decreasing (albeit very slowly) and although cuts have had to be made, I don't think there has been the widespread panic that was predicted.

 

[itfciain]

Having just written the above, I then noticed this on the BBC - so I guess I am not the only one to think like that

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19814806

Interesting to note that the new French President was going to do away with all of the austerity measures as well

 

[Grant_C]

Yeah- voter apathy is terrible. Maybe you should earn the right to vote.

A simple simple test where you would have to list 3 policy issues for the main 3 parties. If your not voting for the 3 parties it doesn't matter as you probably have your vote specifically for a fringe party and will vote for them for an issue- UKIP (Nationalism) Green Party (Environmentalism) etc.

For a technocracy, my suggestion was to replace the politician. You could still have constitency MPs, but the government front bench would be made up of technocrats that would be democratly elected by their peers under consulatancy of the political party. Therefore doctors would be health ministers, teachers would be education ministers.

Like we discussed the other night. It amazes me that people in the developing world are very politically savy because their life depends on it. Ours doesn't. As bad as it gets- the majority of us have so many safty nets and welfare systems.

I find the British are a fanastic political entity when moved by moral outrage. They just need something to ignite the flame. Any ideas?

 

[Grant_C]

I actually think we should be proud of NHS, and perversely, if people are flocking from all over the world to use it then it must be pretty good!

.

I agree- and I don't think its the people inside the NHS. There is something wrong somewhere.

But we are 18th in the world for healthcare according to the World Health Organisation. This is not right. The French or Swiss healthcare is far superior. We should steal it.

 

[weasel]

how many strikes did we see under Labour - not many because they increased public spending becuase generally that is what they do in power. Trouble is, the money has to come from somewhere !

Socialism is a superb form of government.................................until you run out of other people's money to spend!

 

[Grant_C]

You do need a bit of red to make a fruit salad.

 

[tiefighterboy]

May we send you a solution........Take him..he is yours.........

 

[itfciain]

Cheers Todd - think you lot can keep him tho !

How on earth is he anywhere near getting elected ? This is a man who was not selcted over the man who was not selected over George Bush Jnr !

 

[Grant_C]

I call him EV-9D9.

The comparison is uncanny. Especially when he browns up :?

 

[tiefighterboy]

Cheers Todd - think you lot can keep him tho !

How on earth is he anywhere near getting elected ? This is a man who was not selcted over the man who was not selected over George Bush Jnr !

The rich are backing him as he has no use for the common man. He hates big bird too. ..........Grant is referring to him wearing excessive spray tan in an attempt to gain the mexican communities support.........he thought they were so ignorant that they would assume he was hispanic.